ease or difficulty of suspension bushings upgrade?

[Poindexter]

Greetings all. During a trans oil change earlier this week, with RL MT-90, and while the car was up on the lift, I noticed that almost every suspension bushing is either very old and cracked or entirely missing on my 2/71. This explains the clunking.

My question is- for someone with above-average general mechanical skill, but almost zero specific Z-related skills, how difficult is it to change out the suspension bushings? My Dad always had the biggest tool-bench out of anybody I knew growing up, and he passed down his good hands, attention to detail, and mechanical aptitude to me, as well as his massive tool set. I've always worked on the electrical system of my Z, as well as other cars too, but never the engine or suspension before- which I've previously left to the "professionals". Besides the general tools, I also have access to a professional overhead car lift at a friend's house- which I imagine makes a lot of difference- at least in comfort and ease of access- and being able to work standing up under a car instead of creeping underneath. (I'm 6'3")

I realize that this is a very broad question, so I'm intentionally framing this as a 3-part question.

(1) Which bushings are easy (easier), and which ones should I perhaps leave for my mechanic?

(2) ALSO- I have read that some bushings are best when left to rubber, and some respond best to urethane.

(3) When working on bushing replacement, are there any other parts that should be replaced when the car is torn apart? I already have new done all new ball joints, tie rods, master brake cylinder, clutch master and slave cylinders, as well as front calipers.

I want to end up with a daily driver (for the summer at least), I don't want to lower it at all, and haven't planned for replacing springs or struts- as they're all in very good condition. But I mostly want to soak up the sharper road impacts.

I'd rather not pay for my mechanic's boat, or put his children through Harvard, as the bills are *seriously* adding up- and I have the time free now- plus it's a great way to get to know your car better.

Please, your comments are essential as nothing beats direct experience in this very specific area. Much thanks in advance!

[Sailor Bob]

1/ Rear outer control arms are the worst to do do, due to the fact that you have to pull the spindle pins (and they are frequently difficult to remove) - I didn't change these for that reason.

2/ I found that the rubber gear was too sloppy - the urethane is a little hard on the spine but very tight (feels like a sports car). MIne are all urethane other than those mentioned in #1

3/ I would consider doing shocks and springs at the same time, as your bump stops are probably shot as well and to do them means you are well positioned to take on the entire job.

[Jeff G 78]

Depending on what you plan to use your Z for, here are a few things to know about rubber vs. poly bushings

1) Rubber is MUCH quieter. Poly will squeek and make your car generally louder over impacts

2) Rubber is softer and will give your car a much better ride over impacts

3) Poly will give your Z a tighter feel and sharpen all of its responses

4) Poly is cheaper than OEM rubber bushings and easier to install

5) If you live in an area with smooth roads, poly might be okay for a DD, but if the roads are bad, you might tire of the sounds and feel of the poly

6) Poly will make the car feel much older than rubber

7) If you plan to track or auto-x, poly will help the handling

Once you decide rubber vs. poly, then you can start gathering parts. Here are the bushings and a few notes:

1) Front LCAs - Not too hard to do yourself, but if you do rubber you will need to press the new part in

2) Front T/C rods - Fairly easy to do yourself, but nuts can be tricky to start with poly

3) Steering rack - Easy to do yourself

4) Steering coupler - Easy to do yourself

5) Transmission mount - Simple to do yourself

6) Differential mount - Not too bad, but tough to reach fasteners above diff

7) Differential strap - Haven't done this, but it should be easy with diff lowered a bit

8) Mustache Bar - Requires burning the old bushings out, but otherwise not bad

9) Rear inner control arm - Easy swap

10) Rear outer control arm - The granddaddy of all pains in the arse. This is the Right of Passage job that will make you feel like a REAL Z master should you choose to undertake it. It's not that it requires any special skills, it's just a royal pain in the arse and you will swear that the parts are permanently welded together. The good news is that you can pull it apart and take the whole assembly to a shop to have them remove the pins if you can't get them out. This one is a crap shoot. Some pins come out without too much trouble and some require nothing short of an exorcism to remove. There is a tool that might help, but it didn't exist when I did mine, so I'm not sure if it would have worked on my car. Mine fell into the really bad category. I had to cut the pins off with a sawzall and press the center section out with a HUGE press at work. It was really ugly. Do a search on spindle pins for the methods and puller tool! Order new spindle pins and nuts before you start this procedure. The old ones are rarely salvagable.

11) Bump stops - Easy to replace when doing struts but requires spring compressor

Good luck!

[Poindexter]

To Sailor Bob and Jeff G 78- Thank you both! You've given me exactly what I wanted to know, all of the benefits & pitfalls and especially what to expect from both materials. After much consideration, and I hope I'm not in for another monster drain on my wallet, I think that rubber is the answer for me. As much as AutoX seems like a lot of fun, I doubt I would have enough time to devote to getting good enough at it, plus I don't think I'm ready for the toll it might take on my beautiful, but I feel still delicate, old girl. I don't have enough experience to gauge, but it's still a relatively complicated mechanical device that's almost 40 years old, and I imagine that rough handling would end up just breaking things.

I will be using her during the warmer months as a DD. As she was in storage for almost 15 years, it's way past time for her to stretch her legs already! I'll be driving mostly over varied roads, as between here and Manhattan they go from completely ratty and bumpy to new, but except for a minority of the newest State or Federally-maintained roads, and a minority of town roads, there are just millions of patches everywhere and I find myself constantly changing lanes to avoid even the smallest ruts and bumps- this mainly because of the terrible shape of the bushings on my Z. I can't imagine how great it will be to get rid of the majority of the clunks...but not all I expect!

This seems to seal my fate and points to rubber. I don't want to do anything that will make the car feel older, but I also don't want it to feel sloppy either. I just hope that the costs for rubber bushings are reasonable- as if anything new to do with this car ever is!

Are there even aftermarket rubber bushings? I don't ever recall even seeing those in all of my research- urethane seems to be trumpeted everywhere. Or perhaps are there more compliant (softer) urethane bushings with a feel slightly closer to rubber, but without being overly-soft or rock-hard on the other end of the extreme? Finally, what about a mixture of both? There have to be some areas where using urethane will tighten the handling nicely without making the ride jarring, and other areas where rubber adds just the right amount of vibration isolation?

I would rather avoid all of the rattling and vertebrae-smashing. After all, Nissan used all rubber when they introduced the car and it handled pretty good for the time. Again thanks for taking the time to answer this newbies' questions.

[Arne]

Check the prices on Nissan bushings before you go all out on a search for alternatives. I haven't done the front yet, but the prices for Nissan parts for the rear wasn't all that bad, especially after the club discount my dealer gives. The rear inner were about $9 each, the rear outer $7 each.

Buy or rent a spindle pin tool!! Makes the pin pulling a much less ugly job, even if yours are rusted.

But the rear outer bushings are still a major PITA even once the pins have been pulled. Very difficult to get the old ones out. And in my experience, the rear outers have always been the least worn of all the bushings on the car. So I'd look those over very closely before you decide to tackle them. Mine had no slop or play at all, even after 36 years. I decided to replace them anyway, just because. But in hindsight, I'm not certain I would if I knew then what I know now.

[Jeff G 78]

For Nissan parts, call/click Courtesy Nissan in TX. They are great to work with! http://www.courtesyparts.com/secondtier_s30.html

[Arne]

Courtesy is great, and is a sponsor of this site as well. I've bought from them too.

But don't write off your local Nissan dealer until you've given them a try. Mine sells me parts at about the same price as Courtesy, but with no shipping cost. Of course, here in Oregon I've got no sales tax to confuse the issue.

[Jeff G 78]

That's awesome Arne. My local dealers will not even sell me Z parts. They say it's not worth having a microfische machine or slides. At least we have Courtesy.

[Arne]

I suppose that makes sense, Jeff. There's a heck of a lot more Zs left here out West than there are in Michigan.

I wonder what they'd do if you went in with the part number (from the club CD) in hand?

[Poindexter]

Wow! Am I glad I found this site. You all seem so nice to newcomers, and are such a wealth of critically-important information. At this point I really must buy a few of the important publications so I'll learn all of the parts and procedures- and decide for myself how far I'll tear into her.

Besides the FSM, what's best- the Haynes or Chiltons? And I'm going to visit my local Nissan dealer tomorrow. They've been there forever, and my Dad bought several cars from them over the years- and that means they treated him well. It can't hurt to introduce myself to the Service Manager too.

Has anybody actually tried to "duplex" their bushings, with some locations using rubber and others with urethane, or am I thinking too hard on this one?

[Jeff G 78]

That might work, but at the time, I didn't yet have the CD. When they showed no interest, I took my business elsewhere. Their loss...

[John Coffey]

FYI... there's some additional work involved in replacing the front inner lower control arm bushings and the rear outloer lower control arm bushings. In both cases you need to press out the steel outer sleeve of the stock rubber bushing. It normally gets left behind when you burn out these bushings.