Carl Beck

Hi Dave (everyone): I don't think you missed anything, but I'd say that what started out as one question - morphed into a different one. When I originally wrote the article about the Series I cars being sold and titled as 1969, 1970 and 1971 Model Year Cars.... thus leaving all of us wondering just which car someone had when they said they had a "71"... The attempt was to define the Series, with the fewest visual clues that could be used to make a "distinction" between them. It was NOT to document all details changes of all parts or components. Dave originally ask, "what is the TRUE definition of "Series I"" I believe that it is a completely different question to ask, "what are all the fine details that are found on the Series I cars and at what point in time do they appear?" Looking at the exchange between 240znz and I - it seems possible that the two questions and their associated answers are at least part of the reason we don't understand each others statements or questions, to one another. Confusing isn't it? So I would respectfully suggest that we treat the two questions as just that - two questions. Answer to Question #1 - ie. What Is The Definition of "Series I"? The definition of a Series I car would be: *Fresh Air vents in the rear hatch *240-Z Script on the rear quarter panels *Knob used to adjust seat back *140 psi Oil Pressure gauge & Speedo that starts at 20mph * Plastic Tool Covers behind seats * Lever release type seat belts * Steering wheel with pressed indents Then the definition a Series II car would be: *Fresh Air vents moved to the Quarter Panel *Circle Z replaces the 240-Z Script on Quarter Panel *Lever Controlled flip forward seats *Push button release on seat belts *Steering wheel with stamped out holes Then the definition of a Series III (1972 Model Year) car would be: *Dash with Cig. Lighter by hazard warning switch *Redesigned Center Console - with ashtray behind shift lever * Type B transmission - rear end moved rearward - and rear lower transverse link with "bowed out" area * 5" steel wheels standard Then the definition of the Series IV (1973 Model Year) car would be * 2.5 mph bumpers * Emissions control Flat Top Carb.'s * Lighted Center Dash Finisher * Windshield Wipers with "intermittent" position added In the above - I'd tried to leave out any items that were common to more than one Series. Also many items that would be hard to see, without getting in the car or under the hood. Remember the goal is to be able to "distinguish" between the Series by looking at them .. not to document every detail. While the use of Series identifications is needed here in North America to clear up any confusion caused by Nissan and their Authorized Dealers sales and titling procedures - it may not be needed outside the US. Nonetheless, while it may not be necessary to use Series designations outside the US, it does not mean that they can not be applied to 240-Z's out side of North America. (if the definitions above are correct). So the question to our guests from outside the US is - looking at the definitions above - do your 240-Z's for 1970, 1971, 1972 and 1973 agree with all the basic elements of each Series? - - - - -- - - - - - Detail Changes - -- a long time goal- -- To Pin Down 100's of detailed changes, that took place over the calender years - we would need confirmation of parts on pure stock, pure original cars and/or technical documentation from Nissan. I'd venture to say that something close to 99.5% of our now 33+ year old cars - have had more than one previous owner, and almost none that haven't had parts changed or replaced. (I say almost none because I do know of a couple cars that are almost - as they left the show-room floor - and only one 78 that is exactly as it left the showroom floor). Past the above type cars, we'd have to have at least five or ten cars, with the same build dates, that had the same identical original part... This would be a very major undertaking, not to mention the verification effort needed. The Concours Z effort is an attempt to document the fine details of only the Series I cars, and that effort is still a major task with a very long way to go... At any rate, as everyone said - it's been interesting FWIW, Carl B.

Hi datsun40146 (everyone): First let me say that I applaud your efforts. I like the idea of having the results of a day's work in a wind tunnel. My problem is I don't know "why" I like that idea! I have read the thread on HybridZ... and Personally, I have no idea what specific tests can be conducted in a wind tunnel, nor how the effects of air flow over, under, around the car are actually measured. (what instruments?, how is the car connected to them?). Because of that lack of knowledge, I have no real idea of exactly what data or information will be reported. For example - aside from viewing the air flow over , around or under the body, and then guessing at their effect - what test instruments are attached to the car in the wind tunnel, that actually measure down force, lift, or drag? What instruments are in the wind tunnel that actually measure air speed at various points along the car - or are there any? In the Car & Driver road test done years ago - they hooked up test equipment that measured changes in the ride height of the car as it was running on the road, and thus computed pounds of lift or down force at the wheels. Is that type of equipment used in the wind tunnel? Isn't the coefficient of drag simply calculated based on the profile of the frontal area of a car? It's not actually derived from measurements taken in a wind tunnel is it? Are Down Force and Lift actually measured? Aside from viewing laminar flow and turbulence, then identifying areas of high or low pressure based on observation - maybe a little more detail about exactly what information or data would result from a wind tunnel set up would be helpful. That is to say, what is actually measured there and how is it measured - as opposed to being calculated. Maybe some real details would help raise the contribution levels.. It is not so much a matter of what works and what doesn't - as it is a matter of knowing that something works well enough for either your intended purpose, or well enough to justify the expense of adding it. I thing VaGus510 ask a good question related to the cost benefit of a wind tunnel vs. a CFD model as well. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Chris: A few possible answers to that question come to mind. 1. You won't live that long, even if the car runs that long.. 2. Far less miles at $2.75 per gallon, than it took to pay for it when C & D conducted their tests!! 3. It is not so much a matter of the improvement paying for itself - as it is a matter of you being willing to pay whatever is necessary to make your Z Car even MORE GREEN (so to speak). A 0.2 mpg increase in the efficiency of your Z at 70 mph, over time might result in some poor student in China being able to add a gallon of cheap gas to his Toyota, or someone in India being able to get to the Customer Call Center - in time to take your calls on a Customer Hot Line... 0.2 of a mile per gallon increase, means that on a 15 gallon tank of gas - instead of running out of gas 3 miles from the nearest gas station - you can coast up to pump. FWIW, Carl BTW - at Post 7 Chris mentioned Ben's article - and by mistake I quoted Arne's reference to the C & D article.... da... hope everyone figured that out...

Hi Chris: Us "Mericans" don't call the BRE Spook - "stock"!! Actually, according to the Car & Driver Tests - it was quite easy to beat the "stock" Nissan equipped car. Car & Driver said Nissan's front chin "spoiler" was so small as to be all but worthless. Adding the OEM rear spoiler then made the situation worse, as it put significant down force on the rear, and thus caused farther lift on the front. The BRE "Spook" (Spoiler and Scoop) put things back in balance, by adding significant down force on the front - that in turn worked well with the Nissan/BRE rear spoiler. The added benefit of the Spook was additional air directed into the radiator, with ducts for better brake cooling. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Arne: You can find a copy on the Z Car Home Page: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZAerodynamics/AeroMillspaughPart1.htm TARGET=NEW> AERODYNAMICS by Ben Millspaugh </A> FWIW, Carl B.

According to TSB TS72-29: There is no provision in the vehicle wiring harness of early model 240-Z vehicles (serial number HLS30 01456). The TSB tells the Dealers how to install the wiring and new glass with the rear window defroster Lines, in cars that did not come though with them. FWIW, Carl B.

Because Australia received so few cars and usually well into the Model Year, people there may not need to use the Series number to clearly identify their cars. Here in the States we use the Series number to more clearly identify which series car we actually have. Our Datsun Dealers sold/titled Series I cars as 1969 Datsun 2dr cpe., 1970 Datsun 2dr cpe and 1971 Datsun 2dr cpe. I would guess at some point, someone had to invent the word "series". However it's been around for a long time now. In the context that we are using it here, it is a very common term and practice in the Automotive Field; used to distinguish one production run from another which contained identifiable changes, yet not major enough to define a new Model. It seems to have become popular here in the US with the British and German Cars imported Post WW-II, because they made rolling production changes though-out their model years. Most American Manufacturers held any changes until the next Model Year. I'm not sure which article you are refereing to - but this one dealing with Production Changes includes the rearward move of the differential. <a href=http://zhome.com/History/DesignChanges.htm TARGET=NEW> Production Changes</a> FWIW, Carl B.

Hi James: That's an interesting statement. Can you provide a little more information as to why you believe it is true as it relates to the RHD HS30 cars? You later Post - that your early car contains all the items that we would consider to be a Series I car, and that it was most likey produced in 1970. thanks, Carl B.

This is a "Product" that should be produced and sold. Mounting of the choke lever and cables is one of the few truly stupid things on the 240-Z. FWIW, Carl B.

Production for the 1972 Model Year Datsun 240-Z's sold in North America ended 08/72. To date the highest VIN we have recorded is HLS30 100262. Production for the 1973 Model Year Datsun 240-Z's sold in North America started 08/72. To date the lowest VIN we have found for the 73 Model Year is HLS30 1200031 with a build date of 08/72. Nissan started the VIN's on the 1973 Model Year 240-Z's at HLS30 120xxx so that the 73 Models were easily identified or differentiated from the 72's and earlier. The 1973 Emissions and Safety Requirements from the Federal Government were far stricter... thus the change in the carb.'s and the 2.5 mph bumpers... The 73 Models were 50 State Compliant. FWIW, Carl B.

128501 maybe ? Carl B.

Oh.. by the way... In my opinion one of the best and most useful "luxury" tools you can have in the garage is a portable gas welding set. Home Depot has fairly good one's for $279.00 (Lincoln Electric brand)... Harbor Freight has one for $259.00. To me "luxury" tools are the one's that you buy after you have a solid basic set of hand tools. They are the one's that it's mostly a luxury to own, not a necessity. Things like a dedicated buffing motor/wheel, an aluminum floor jack, a good parts washing station, a bead blasting cabinet and a huge compressor etc etc. You can gas weld just about anything on a car with that set-up, it will cut steel about 1/4" thick easily and it's a great help in breaking rusted nuts/bolts loose. Need to bend some metal? Build an engine dolly?... fix things that are metal and broken? You won't use it every day - but it sure is great to have it when you need it. FWIW, Carl B.

Steel turns orange/red hot at about 1800 degrees F... An oxy/acet torch put's out about 6000 degrees F MAPP gas - burned in ambient air is about 3000 degrees F (almost twice that if feed with oxygen) Propane burned in ambient air is about 2400 degrees as I recall... The flame temperature is only one aspect of heating that nut. The concentration and penetration rates are just as important. If you hold an oxy/acet torch on that nut - in a few seconds the nut will start to turn orange/red hot.. So fast that the heat will not have the time to be soaked away by the stud, which is screwed into an aluminum head.. If you use that MAAP or Propane Torch - burning ambient air - held there long enough it will heat that nut to orange/red - but it will take so long that it will also heat the stud and start to melt the aluminum head. With the stud and head as heat sinks... you'll likely run out of gas before you see a steel nut glow red hot... So - no - the Benzomatic won't do the job (not even close). It will sometimes work on lesser frozen nuts that simply require the application of some heat ... but not usually on rusted/frozen exhaust manifold nuts... nor header pipe nuts.. FWIW, Carl B.

OK - - - you have a couple of options..... 1 - go to the Kano Lab's site and order a couple of can's of Kroil-Oil... wait for it to arrive. Then apply it to the threads of the stud and let it work it's way into the interface between the threads on the nut and the threads on the stud. At this point it might take two or three or four days... so you soak it down every day and let it set. <a href=http://kanolabs.com TARGET+NEW> Kano Laboratories </a> Then - grab the nut with a firm grip applied by a good set of vice-grips - and smack the vice-grips a solid swift blow with a brass hammer. Do not apply heavy torque gradually by pulling on the vice-grips by hand - you risk twisting the stud off. Dynamic torque will usually break the nut loose. If you can't swing a brass hammer - hold the vice grips with one hand - and smack you hand with the other hand.. 2. Second option - go rent or borrow a an oxy/acetylene torch. Heat the nut to a glowing red color - grab it with vice grips - and it'll break free and unscrew. Heat the "nut" not the stud... If you can not get a pair of vice-grips on the nut - you can usually get a box-end wrench to work on a red hot nut - because it expands and even if it's rounded off a bit - you'll still be able to get enough grip ... You can buy a portable gas welding set at Harbor Freight - for $259.00, or sometimes Home Depot has Victor portable sets for just a little more.. This is a great addition to any garage... Using "TIME" and Kroil - I've broken nuts/bolts loose that most people including me - would have thought to be impossible, without twisting the studs/bolts off. It's amazing what that stuff will do if you give it enough time and keep the parts wet down. It's good to have a can of both AeroKroil and SiliKroil (spray can) on hand in the shop. It isn't cheap, but a can lasts a long time... good luck' Carl

For cars produced in 1969 and up to March of 1970 (as I recall), the only State in the US that had a requirement for evaporative emission controls (gasoline vapors) was California. Nonetheless, most of the DATSUN 240-Z's produced after Jan. first of 70 were equipped with the vapor recovery tanks. Cars that had no vapor recovery tanks were mostly sent to Canada or the East Coast Ports. (so they were less likely to wind up in California I would guess). If the car didn't have the vapor recovery tank - it also did not have the vapor recovery tubes and control valve under the hood... I'd have to go back and look it up again - but I believe that the US Federal Laws required evaporative emissions controls everywhere in the US for cars produced after March of 1970. Why Nissan sent only a few cars without the vapor recovery systems - who knows.. Could be that at the start up of production the sub-supplier wasn't geared up to meet the HUGE demand. Early cars sent to Canada did not have the Fresh Air Injection system either - as that too was not required in Canada at that time. FWIW, Carl B.

tell me what a "blow torch" is... by "stripped" do you mean the nut turns, but does not move along the threads of the stud? Carl B.

Hi Mikey: No - I wish I had been a better entrepreneur and businessman. I'd have most likely made a lot more money. My advice comes to you at the cost of having lost lots of time and money in failed ventures on the one hand - then having gone to work for a great businessman for a couple of years and watching carefully what he did, on the other. Believe me, if I had had any artistic ability at all, I'd have been an Architect instead of an Aerospace Engineer. If I had had any sense at all, I'd have been a businessman. But that wisdom 50+ years after the fact isn't of much use to me... so I pass it along to you for what its worth Your right - a picture speaks a thousand words.. I'll be looking forward to seeing what you have to offer.. good luck, Carl B.

103K miles, solid shape - $3,500.00 to $4,500.00 depending on the overall condition. Fully and correctly restored to "as it left the showroom" condition - maybe $18K to $20K. Cost to fully restore it - maybe $25K to $30K plus a year or so of work. The usual number used to define production is 1000. Nissan only said that each Dealer would get at least 1. Larger Dealers got five or six. You only restore a car yourself if you can afford it and you enjoy the process of restoring it. If you do a near perfect job, and spend the money necessary to do that - it usually takes close to 10 years before the value of the car reaches the level of money you've spent. If you can afford BOTH the time and money, and you will enjoy the process of restoring it yourself, then enjoying owning it for the following years - then have at it! FWIW, Carl B.

Mikey: As the old saying goes - "it is better to seek forgiveness, than to gain permission". IMHO - you should have contained yourself and waited until the shirts arrived - THEN posted pictures of them, along with order information. For the most part, buying T-Shirts with graphics - is an impulse purchase. Forewarning everyone that they are coming, will have the effect of lowering the "buy impulse" once they are ready to ship to customers. The process of wetting peoples appetites via advanced publicity, is mainly useful when the product is NOT of the impulse purchase type. Secondly - no businessman would ever say that their reason for bringing a product to market -was "to make some money". When one says that - the first thing the potential customers wonder is "just how much money is this guy making?" and then "Am I paying too much for it?". When you bring a product to market - you tell the potential buyers WHY they should want to buy one. Something along the lines of; " Hello Fellow Z Car Fan's - In order to raise awareness that the DATSUN 240-Z is still - Alive and Well in America, I've had very special T-Shirts produced. They proudly display your love for the Classic Z Car." Nonetheless, I applaud your efforts to earn some money... FWIW, Carl B.

Yes and Yes FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Jim: Copied below is the data dump from the - on line input form - as I receive it from the Web Site. When you or anyone fill out the form, the raw data from the input form - is e-mailed to me. I then extract the relevant data - and enter it into the html document - that displays the Classic Z Car Registers. NOTE only input forms that are COMPLETE make it to the Classic Z Car Register... Lots of people fail to input their Original Engine Serial Numbers - - so nothing happens with that input...(not the case with your input - it was complete). The data as received looks like this: - - - Begin copy - - - - - - - - Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 16:44:12 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Jim Coffey" <a7dzcar@thewiredcity.net> To: <beck@becksystems.com> Subject: Form posted from Microsoft Internet Explorer. The following document was sent as an embedded object but not referenced by the email above: temp=temp&mizccno=11142&mORIG=&mvin=HLS30-06160&bdmonth=6&bdyear=1970&colorcode=918&ext-int-color=Orange%2Fblack&engine_ser=009502&mcomm=Car+was+originally+purchased+from+Hoyt+Datsun+or+Hoyt+Motors+do+not+remember+which+one+in+Auburn%2CWA+by+an+Air+Force+Captain.+He+traded+it+in+Dec.+of+1975+at+Monroe+Street+Datsun+in+Spokane+Wa.+I+bought+it+Dec.1975+and+have+owned+it+ever+since.+%0D%0A&mname=James&mlname=Coffey&memail=a7dzcar@thewiredcity.net&mcity=Tacoma&mstate=WA&mctry=USA&mpub=yes+please - - - - end copy - -- - - I drop out the ASCII characters - and get it ready to put into the html document. IZCC# 11142 HLS30-06160 06 / 70 918 Orange L24 009502 James Coffey Tocama, WA USA a7dzcar@thewiredcity.net Searching my e-mail files for either your Name, or the VIN - I have received only the one input from you shown above. (did find several e-mails from you related to springs) If you'll let me know what numbers are not correct - I'll be glad to fix them. Checking the IZCC Membership Data Base - I do see that your e-mail address is different there, from the one listed on your input form for the Classic Z Car Register. You can e-mail me directly at beck@becksystems.com FWIW, Carl B.

Yes it's quite possible - Motor Homes and RV's do it all the time. Not exactly simple - but with enought money - doable... You might look into the fourms for Motor Homes to see where they are getting the switching/control panels. Just a thought.. Carl B.

Hi Mike (everyone): First let me say thanks to Mike for his generous offer - and let everyone know it's not the first time he has made it. At the present time, an Internet Connection, Server Space and all support software are freely provided by several of our members. Nonetheless, as most of us know, things change over time. In fact we've moved/re-hosted both the Z Car List and the Z Car Home Page several times over the past 19 years. So I always keep offers like Mike's in mind ;-) WARNING - LONG COMMENTS FOLLOW - feel free to skip them if you have no interest. If you haven't anything else to do - it will give you something to read while your waiting... Carl B. As the three distinct parts of what we call the IZCC seem to have been intermixed in this discussion, I'd like to give everyone interested a little more background - to promote an understanding of each. Although I've been around for a long time - I'm certainly not the founder of the IZCC... only the longest running sucker, volunteered to support it. 1) Bryan is referring to the e-mail based, Z Car Discussion Group that was originally started in 1987. We call that "The Z Car List" (and it's digest form - The Z Car Digest). The original List Server was put on-line by Bob Weissman (at Boeing I believe)... because his personal e-mail distribution or copy list was getting too large, and not everyone was copied on all e-mails and replies. Today "the Z Car List" is hosted free of charge by Texas A & M University - Extension Services Dept. It's an old unix based Majordomo system...(what is old is new again). 2) The Internet Z Car Club - a virtual club started by John De Armond in 1992, among the subscribes to "the Z Car List" - with the main purpose of obtaining volume discounts for our virtual members - at various Dealerships and Vendor Locations. In the then spirit of the Internet - membership was FREE and Open to anyone on the Internet. We provided an on-line Membership Data Base - so that the vendors could easily verify membership in the virtual world (no physical membership cards at the physical Parts Counter). 3) The Z Car Home Page - originally started in Australia in 1994 by Salman Shami (an M.E.) at the University of Melbourne. The Site was moved to Princeton University when Salaman was Graduated and lost access to the Universities Servers ..then moved to our own servers when Stefanos Damianakis (Ph.D.) was Graduated from Princeton (and lost access to the Princeton Servers)...Today hosted free of charge and free of any advertising by Elie Rosenblum (an ISP). In The Beginning: Prior to the Z Car List - ie. the actual List Server Software being put up by Bob in 87... many of us Z Car Owners in the Aerospace and Defense industry had been using the ARPA Net and NASA's PSCNI net - to keep in touch ( I started on the ARPA Net in 73). Personally, as I traveled to various Prime and Sub contractor sites around the Country - working on various A&D Programs and Projects - I keep track of the other Z Car owners I meet - and kept in touch via text messages (on TTY's between/among main frames and super-mini's) and later e-mail on Personal Computers.. We all needed technical questions answered, sources for parts and good used cars... and we all keep our own contact lists etc. As the DoD ARPA (Advanced Research Projects Agency) Net opened up to become what we know as the "Internet".. the next major user group was mostly located at Colleges and Universities - and usually first in the Engineering/Scientific Colleges (Post Grad. then Under Grad). There we found growing numbers of younger guys - that were just trying to keep their old Z's running as daily transportation... Loved their Z Cars.. but were far from having the funds to Race nor Restore them... Most of them simply could not afford to take their Z's to a professional mechanic, let alone a Dealership. So us older owners, found a group of younger owners that shared our love for the Z's.. and who provided an outlet for our "experience".. The main goal was to help them fix their own cars. (which is one of the main beauties of the 240-Z's). As the World Wide Web developed - Wide Area Information Servers (WAIS) and the World Wide Web Servers / Browsers followed...That and the continued opening of the Internet then brought the masses on line. By 1993 the IZCC had about 350 members, by 1995 a 1000 members. By 1999, 6000 members, by 2001, 10,000 members..by 2003, 13,000 and by 2006, 15,000. (about twice the membership of all Local Z Car Clubs combined). Of course the Internet then spread around the world - and today we have members in over 40 different Countries as well as within the USA. OK - So Lets Back Up to around 1995. Growing as we were - we wanted to more formally pull the three entities above - into a more comprehensive whole. So a rather large group of IZCC Members were volunteered to define the future direction of the "virtual club" and its resources. The Z Car Home Page: The Group decided that "the Z Car Home Page" should be a source of information for Z Car Owners. NOT a source of entertainment, not a commercial development... So , no "eye candy", and strictly "Internet Standards Based"... ie no Vendor Proprietary formats/software. As all data/information and articles were freely donated to the Z Car Home Page - the members did not want any commercial interest profiting, from the work so freely given. So NO ADVERTISING. Additionally, to preclude conflicts of interests between the members good and commercial vendors interests - we would take no Sponsorship Funding from commercial interests either. All information/data collected and possible future growth forecast - was then divided into seven main Sections - and the Sections then subdivided... the goal was to establish a structure within which one could to get to any information/data - within three levels of decomposition. KISS - keep it simple stupid - and get me to the information I'm looking for.! By 1998 - the Z Car List was sending about 65 to 85 Posts/Replies per day (to aprox. 2300 subscribers) - and many members were complaining that it was simply too much e-mail, most of which any one of them, didn't want to read. The use of Subject <tags> was supposed to allow everyone to easily sort, store or delete unwanted Posts/Replies within their e-mail clients. Nonetheless - Model or Interest specific sub-groups started to split off. Z31.com, 240-Z.org, HybridZ.org, TwinTurbo.net. That was then followed by all manor of attempts to start Z Car Sights/Forums.. ZCar.com, ZDriver.com etc etc. So at that point the Z Car Community had indeed fractured - split itself into smaller special interest groups. Nonetheless, IZCC Members like Bryan, wanted to keep the IZCC as a group that supported ALL Generations of Z Cars. As well as to preserve the huge knowledge base that subscribers to the Z Car List represented. It also provides a link to the broader Z Car Community than any individual model specific site can offer. So promotions for the annual ZCCA (Z Car Club Association) Annual Convention, the Motorsports Auto West Coast Nationals - and many Local Z Car Club shows and events - get published on the Z Car List as well. The IZCC Membership data base - provided the ability to find other Z Car People in local areas - and to reach them via E-Mail. In that manor several Local Z Car Clubs were formed in the Physical World. An unexpected side benefit of the data base.. but it turned out to be an important contribution to the Z Car Community at large. Today - I am reviewing the purpose, scope and usefulness of all three parts. We've talked about "the Z Car List"... and I'll be reconsidering the purpose and structure of the Z Car Home Page. It's original intent was to be a single source on the Web for Z Car related data, information etc. It was expected many years ago - that many people would volunteer to both build and maintain various Sections of the site. Indeed in many cases that happened... and in too many cases it didn't. So over the next year I'll be going through the site - and based on usage and access statistics - I'll be deleting or trimming a lot of sections/articles etc that are no longer supported by their originators - or which can be found elsewhere at the Model Specific Sights. Anyone can build their own Web Sites today (something not really anticipated in 95) - and do so in any manor they wish. With ever improved search engines, anyone can find just about anything any where. So the need for a centralized data/information repository seems at first glance to be to have been made obsolete...The problem then becomes Quantity vs Quality. A centralized focus of thousands of members, assures that the data/information held there is reviewed by many and corrected where necessary. Something all to any individual sites lack completely... It is an evolving universe...Being somewhat older and I hope wiser now - I've found that slower, better thought out moves yeild the best results in the long run. Nothing is going to change too quickly.. but change is a part of the evolution in the Information Age. I appreciate all your thoughts and comments - FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bryan (everyone): It's kind of like the Big Bang - at first we were all in a fairly close, tight nit, small community "the Z Car On-Line community"(circa 85-95). Then as the universe expanded and time passed... we found ourselves spinning off in all directions, separated by light years, each in our own more unique model specific galaxy. So Bryan - regardless of what the original members of the IZCC wanted, forces beyond their control have indeed spit up the Z Community. I don't see it coming back together again. It is now way to big and way to diverse to be of interest as a whole, to the individuals. It has really very little to do with the technological "medium", and far more to do with Group Dynamics and Focus. Birds Of A Feather, Like Minded People, Shared Common Interest. We all like to be part of a "Group" and not of a "Crowd". When a Crowd gets too big, it splits up into smaller Groups again.. TRIBES... To a great extent, Nissan's evolution of the Z Car really set the stage. It only took time for the on-line group to grow large enough - that smaller model specific sites could spin off and achieve critical mass and begin to grow on their own. Today that very growth in total mass, is crushing what was once "the On-line Z Car Community". Almost without exception, individuals are primarily interested in one or two generations of the Z Car.. and not really at all interested in all generations, if it means spending too much time wading through too much space noise. It hasn't happened as completely in the physical world, but it's taking place there now as well. Where there were once "Z Car Clubs"... there are now "350-Z Clubs" and "350Z / G35 Clubs". I won't be at all surprised if we don't see "240-Z Clubs" started in the physical world as well, perhaps at the State Level more often than at the Local Level... "The Z Car List" does have a fairly large subscriber list - so a Post there should reach a fairly large number of Z Car People. Even though the list traffic is down to a crawl many of the subscribers wanted to keep it on-line. If nothing else, it's still a method to reach a broad range of Z Car Owners, and it does represent a huge knowledge base. ... So we'll maintain it. "The Z Car Home Page" and the "IZCC" are related but different entities...Traffic to ZHome are at an all time high and membership in the IZCC continues to grow - in spite of the apparent problems with the sign-up forms (which need to be better addressed). Just didn't want to confuse "the Z Car List" with the Z Car Home Page nor the Internet Z Car Club... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Alfadog: I'm not sure that is technically the case... It is quite possible that the original purchaser, knew he was going to send the car home to Australia - and did indeed purchase an Export compliant "DATSUN" 240-Z. Many US Servicemen did the same.. According to the info that Alan supplied some time ago - VIN's were in the same series for the Export and Domestic 240-Z's (HS series) - but each were within known blocks. The JDM Nissan Fairlady 240-Z VIN's stopped at HS30 103262. Very interesting car... FWIW, Carl B.