Carl Beck

Hi Larry: Please see: <a href=http://zhome.com/History/DesignEvolution/DesignEvolutionZ.htm TARGET=NEW> Design Evolution of the Z</a>

Some of my thoughts... 1. The 350-Z is styled, or more correctly "shaped" the way it is - because it is a shortened Infiniti G35. Just as AMC chopped 8 inches out of the Javelin - to create the AM-X. The Nissan 350-Z came about as a cost containment... not the "Clean Slate" design that Mr. Hanawa promised at the New York Out Show in 2000. Nissan simply could not, or was not willing, to develop a new chassis unique to the Z Car - once Carlos took over the helm at Nissan. 2. Prior to the 350-Z, although all previous generations of Z's shared many common components with the sedans in the line - the Z's all had their own unique chassis/floorpans. That is not the case with the 350-Z. 3. Let's keep a distinct difference in our minds between "Retro Styling" which is one art form of it's own and "Classic Sports Car Lines". Retro doesn't mean Classic and Classic doesn't meant Retro. 4. I agree that Austin, Jag and even Ferrari have returned in recent years to more "Classic" body lines. Typically longer hoods, smoothly flowing feminine body lines and tight rounded rear ends. 5. To the traditional Porsche fans - a Porsche was an air cooled, boxer type, rear engine car. The 928, 124, 944 failed in the market because they were not the cars that people, that wanted a Porsche, wanted in the first place. The 914 failed because it was market in Europe as a VW...and the PCA refused to recognize it as a Porsche, until the Factory threatened to withdraw support of the PCA... The Boxter made it big because it was the modern 550... Most manufacturers have tried "badge engineering" and it might work to a limited extent for a limited time... Likewise some retro designs sell well for a period.... But in the long run it is logical and visual evolution that keeps a Marque alive. The Prosche, the Corvette, the big Ferrari's... IMHO the new Mustang is not so much "retro" as it is a return to what should have evolved if Ford didn't get off track in the first place... I think most of us Classic Z Car Fans were hoping that Nissan would do the same... give us a modern 240-Z.... one with the Classic Lines we all love... The Lexas at Post #2 looks a lot like the Caddy Sports Car.. to me... (X-LR) That was a bold new design but still falling within the Classic Lines... even if maybe a little edgy... The Chrysler Cross Fire was also a Bold Design.. but needed about twice the HP offered. The Solstice and Saturn Sky .. could have been hits, if only GM had set up to mass produce them, and given them the HP advantage over their competition... Nissan needs to get Peter Brock to design the next generation Z for US.... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bo: Amen... I was driving a 67 911S when I bought my first 240-Z in 1970. After you quit shaking and looking back on it - it was kind of funny the first time it happened to you... I'm pretty sure that the phrase; "keep the pedal to the metal" - originated with Porsche... Just too funny.... regards, Carl B.

Here is a thought... All you guys with Tie Down Hooks on your 240-Z's know one thing for sure... The Selling Dealer's service department didn't do it's job. They were supposed to be removed by the Dealers prior to Deliver of the car to it's first owner. Not really a part of the car - they were packing fixtures, much like the plastic wrap on the door panels or around the seatbelts... The Tow Hook on the other hand, was actually part of the car.. and was to be left in place for delivery to the end consumer. So if your 240-Z came from the Dealer without it's rear Tie Down Hooks... it was delivered as intended by the Factory. So.. for Pure Stock Class... if you leave the rear Tie Down Hooks in place for show - then IMHO you should also leave the plastic covers on the door panels, the seat belts wrapped/bagged, and the hubcaps boxed in the rear... along with the Pre-Delivery Inspect Report (not filled out of course)... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Luke: In stock form - the 240-Z will exhibit a significant amount of body roll in harder or higher speed turns. This can be a little unsettling if your not totally at peace with the car. Nonetheless, if you have taken any number of drivers training courses, with good instructors and in the process developed a good feel for the 240-Z... you'd be amazed at what it's capable of even in pure stock form. (I've taken a few hot laps around Portland International Raceway with John Morton driving, in both pure stock 510's and 240-Z's..simply unbelievable, and we didn't leave the track nor rollover even once!) IMHO - the first thing you want to spend money on is great tires. Adding a larger front anti-sway bar, along with better shocks would be my second expenditure. This will greatly reduce body roll without adding a significant amount of harshness to a street driven car. For the use you describe for your Z - I'd stop there. At that point the normal body roll in cornering would be greatly reduced, and you'd still have a bit of understeer combined with some complaining from the tires as they reach their limit of adhesion. This is an important feedback loop... tires screaching tell you that you are most likely approaching your limit.... Adding a large rear anti-sway bar in addition to the above - will make the Z handle more in the neutral zone. The car will feel flatter in the corners, and you won't get so much complaining from the tires as you approach their limit. While this may seem like a good thing at first blush... I don't believe it is a good thing for the average driver on the highway. (I feel I'm an average driver). Pushed just a little harder with the front/rear anti-sway bars and stiffer shocks .. the handling will transition from neutral to over-steer somewhat unexpectedly, and you'll find yourself spinning off the corner. (As will lifting off the throttle suddenly when you enter a corner too hot ). Believe me when I say - you won't believe how suddenly nor unexpectedly this will happen as you pass the limits of tire adhesion to the road. (been there done that - a few times). The bottom line for me is - a little body roll and tire screeching are a good thing for most of us. As is a little understeer. If your going Road Racing.. and you are a competent driver...that's a whole different world. I'd recommend only upgrading the front anti-sway bar for street use and combine that with better shocks. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

I guess it's time to get back into the muffler business!! Yea GAD!... you've got to be putting us on! $420.00... for a very simple pipe and muffler. Twenty years ago - I charged $115.00 for that job. You say it took them two days..... that is a 1/2 hour job. Here in Florida you must be given a written estimate if you ask for one, and they can not exceed that by more than 10% without your written permission ... did you ask for a written estimate? If not, that is most likely one reason you good taken to the cleaners.. There is nothing you can do now - except pay the bill. Then go home a write the Midas Home Office and ask them if they condone that type of business practice. If you have a local TV Stattion with a Consumer Protection Program .. copy the letter that you write to Midas to them as well... live an learn... When dealing shops you don't personally Know - always get a written estimate before work begins.. or go elsewhere.. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Mohammed: I can't be certain because the Factory Service Manuals that I have for 77/78 do not provide the Installed Height, nor the Load for the Front/Rear Springs on the 280Z. The Free Length of the OEM springs is longer in Front... but the Spring Rate is higher in the Rear. Number of Coils = 9.5 Front and 8.5 Rear Free Length = 15.98 in. Front and 15.43 Rear Spring Rate = 103 lbs/in. Front and 127.7 lbs/in. Rear For example - the 240-Z's had a 48/52 Front/Rear weight distribution per the Factory Service Manuals. 1166 lbs. on the front and 1270 lbs. on the rear. 48% Front and 52% rear. I wouldn't assume that the weight of the engine in front makes the front of the 280Z heavier than the rear. As I recall from different road test the front/rear weight distribution stayed about the same for the 240-Z, 260-Z and 280-Z's. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Greg: Did you find the Date of Manufacture on your Z? It 's on the drivers door jam. Also the original engine serial number - which is on the data tag under the hood.. thanks, Carl B.

AD no longer available... anyone know what happend? Carl B.

Hi Matt: Thanks for letting us know. You do have something rare - a Datsun 240-Z with a known owner history and a Father-in-law that would give you his 240-Z. He must think a lot of you... FWIW, Carl B.

Haven't seen one of those in years... that is the Deno or Pantera deck.. It did have the advantage of both hiding anything you were carrying, and cutting down on the hot air mass of the rear deck area. Also looks like the factory competition hood scoop... Two rare parts on one car.... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Jon: Think about that.......(hint - spring rates)... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Randy: With the older KYB gas pressure shocks, no one reported, nor did I notice any increase in ride height when they were installed. However it "seems" that the newer KYB GT-2's as well as the Tokico's do result in an increase in ride height if only the shocks are changed. The OEM front springs in the 240-Z are rated at about 83lbs/in.. and the load on the front strut is about 562lbs to 602lbs. So a high pressure gas shock that had a positive pressure of 83 lbs.. would unload the spring and lift the car 1 inch. If they are installed with aftermarket springs - that have a shorter Free Length to begin with, and which have a higher spring rate - the effect would not be as great. If the after-market springs have a spring rate of say 125 lbs./in. then lifting 83 lbs off the load, would result in about a 1/2 inch increase in ride height... ( but the shorter springs would hide that effect to an extent). The original gas filled shocks... used an inert gas (nitrogen) to reduce foaming in the oil in the shock when the shock was pumped rapidly. However they had a very low positive pressure. From what I've read and been told by people who are supposed to know - the new Gas Pressure Shocks do have a very high positive pressure. The Racing Shop that measured the spring rates for me (on the OEM and re-production springs), told me that the cars they more normally deal with - like Camero's/Firebirds.. high pressure shocks can have a positive pressure as high as 100 lbs. I guess we'll have to get a couple of the newer KYB's and Tokico's and actually measure the amount of upward force they produce. Then take the matter up with the manufacturers... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bo: Do you have the spec.'s on the Tokico springs? Free Length Number of coils Wire diameter What wheel/tire combo are you running? Would be interesting to see what it takes to drop the front end with their shocks. thanks, Carl B.

Hi Bob: Maybe the seller didn't lie. Could be he was simply using a different context in making his remarks, as opposed to the context in which you took it. Rare - well compared to the number of Red Mustangs sold in 1970... A Safari Gold 240-Z was a rare color. Rare - true, go to a Z Car Show and Safari Gold Z's aren't really all that common today... all to many have been repainted Red or Silver... In the context of the color mix of 240-Z's received by the Dealers in 1970 - Safari Gold was among, if not the, most common color. The thing is - when people see a "mustard" colored 240-Z with it's 30 year old, badly faded paint they go ... uck... In turn they don't repaint the car that mustard color... On the other hand when they see a fully restored Safari Gold car at a car show - with it's bright and shinny Safari Gold color - they usually like it a lot. Looks "Period Correct"... When people make very general statements... like "its a rare color"... you always have to ask them for further elaboration on that statement. Just a thought.... FWIW, Carl B.

Oops...for got the Picture... Carl

Hello Mohammed: I do not have any specifications for the aftermarket "ST" springs, so I can not answer your question directly. I can however tell you that the OEM/Stock springs for the 240 have: Front Springs 10 Coils Rear Springs 10.65 Coils Right Front Spring Free Length = 15.2 inches (386mm) Left Front Spring Free Length = 14.7 inches (373.5mm) Rear Springs Free Length = 14.5 inch (369mm) So the free length of the OEM/Stock Front Springs is longer than the rear. The Rear Springs have more coils, in a shorter distance... so their spring rate is greater than the front. The Spring Rates for the OEM/Stock Springs are: Front = 83 lbs/in. (1.48 kg/mm) Rear = 103.6 lbs/in. (1.85 kg/mm) I agree with John - almost everyone I've heard from reports that the new gas shocks, being sold for the 240-Z's will raise the ride height of the car between .75 and 1.25 inches. I believe that this is an issue we need to take up with KYB and others... Looking at the picture you provided - the front of the car looks about right to me - but the rear is sagging. With a stock 240-Z, with stock wheels/tires - you can normally place three to four of your fingers, with your hand held vertically - between the top of the tire and the wheel arch. Stock Ride Height for the 240-Z, if you measure from the bottom of the rocker panel to the pavement - is 8.00 to 8.25 inches. Measured at the notch in the pinch weld seam, where the car's jack is supposed to be placed... Note - measure to the bottom or underside of the rocker panel... not to the pinch weld seam that sticks down below the bottom of the rocker panel. Wheel/tire size can increase or decrease ride height... so you have to take the effect of larger or smaller diameter tires/wheels into account - when using the 8 / 8.25 inch measurement. Remember that the 240-Z's were Sports/GT's... with all independent suspension. Lots of ground clearance, lots of spring/shock travel. In stock form they aren't supposed to be sitting on the ground.. Note Picture of Stock 240-Z below - see the ground clearance in front.... see the tire/wheel arch clearance in the front. FWIW, Carl

Hi Arne: You are too kind, and too humble (quality traits I've never developed;-) - I'm sure you know as much about these cars as any of us. For that matter I'm sure there are several guys here that have extensive knowledge and hands on experience. We may all know some aspects of these cars better than most others, but it's the combined knowledge base that matters most..... 36 years and I still don't understand the electrical system (what were they thinking!?) I just happen to have been lucky enough to have lived with the 240-Z's since they arrived here in the US. Lucky enough to have worked for a Datsun Dealer in the early 70's.... and smart enough to realize the Datsun 240-Z was the best Sports/GT I could ever hope to own. The only down side to that is that it makes me an old fart... I think the main thing is that many of us are willing to share what we know, learn what we didn't know and discuss everything that's questionable... and do it time after time as new people come into the Z Car Community ;-) FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Greg: (everyone).. Joining this thread a little late... You'll have to let me know the build date and the original engine serial number - so I can get it in my data base. I too lived in Ohio - Ashland/Mansfield area - and I helped build Mid-Ohio! The Mid Ohio Sports Car Club was the first Club I joined in ah...1962... Are you sure the BRE Car you saw was a replica? I know that the Mason's run the Vintage Races at Mid-Ohio in their BRE #3 240-Z. Good to see you here, and hope you'll have a great time restoring #379. So far we have located 139 1969 Production Datsun 240-Z's... #378 was at the Z Barn in Knoxville. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Unbelieveable...what is the matter with these people? I would have snatched that one up in a heart beat.. (if I could have gotten someone over there to look it over first ;-) That car would easily sell for $5,500.00 here in Florida... maybe more... FWIW Carl B.

Hi Walter: I've been down that road. I'm still not sure where it ends.. and I really don't care. I simply make sure that as I'm going along, I enjoy every step to it's fullest. Getting done, is never my goal... enjoying the process is. I bought my White 72 and stored it for four years, before starting the "refresh"... Once I started on it, it took about a year to get it back on the road. AIR that all started about 8 years ago. When I say it took a year - keep in mind that I was retired by then... so I had pretty much full time to devote to the project. I've been working on my current project for about 2 1/2 years now... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Steve (everyone): Given your description, if it was in my area, and if I had the room to store it... I'd go grab it at $1,500.00 or anything less if possible. I'd bet that at this point, if you showed up in person with $900.00 CASH in your hand - the seller would let you drag it out of there. (for that matter at $1K or less I'd grab it even if I didn't have the room to store it;-) As you said - it is restorable... low VIN, matching numbers, all data tags. It's getting very hard to find a restorable Series I car - almost regardless of condition for anything less than $3,500.00. Almost without exception now - all the Series I and II Z's you'll find under $5K will need floorboard replaced. If you wanted to do a full refresh or restore - starting with a bare body shell - it would be hard to find a lower buy in point. I'd strip it down to bare metal and put it in epoxy primer, to stop all rust from progressing first thing ... then store it for later. But I wouldn't attempt to store it without first stopping the rust. In the mean time, I'd be gathering all the parts needed to "refresh" or "restore" it. FWIW: Carl B.

Hi Carl: Your description is enough to tell me that its the schematic... no need to do the scan. I was hoping that someone had developed a color coded wiring diagram - that would show us non Electrical Types what wires run through what wiring harnesses and to what connectors they terminate.... the physical layout we deal with in the real world. thanks for the response Carl B.

Agreed.. if the car is as described it should have a base price of $7,500.00. Anyone know if Gary is doing well or not? Carl B.

Hi Chuck: The electric fuel pump was installed on the early 73 240-Z's as part of Nissan's attempt to resolve starting and running problems, mostly caused by the manor in which they meet the 1973 Emissions Standards. Higher combustion chamber temps., the flat top carb.'s and changes to engine ignition timing. The Dealers installed various "Kits " of items in Stages.. depending on how bad the problems were. (it wasn't an option so much as an attempt to get the cars to start and run). The problems with the fuel system were percolation, vapor lock and vacuum break. Past a certain time, Nissan starting including the electric fuel pumps at the factory on all 73's. In either case, Dealer Service Installation or Factory the existing wiring in the wiring harness was used to power the pump. You found the wires back by the tank. In your 72 there are two wires with female spade connectors in the wire bundle that is to the right side of the dash/center console interface. You have to make a jumper wire with two male spade connectors to join the two female spade connectors together. That will send power to the pump. In your 73 there should be two relays, bolted to a large relay bracket just above your feet on the right side kick panel. One relay powers the second relay that controls the power to the fuel pump. See: http://zhome.com/Dropbox/73FuelPumpRelaySm.jpg You can copy/download the image and blow it up If someone has changed out the carb,'s on your 73 - to the earlier SU's and car runs fine with the mechanical fuel pump - I see no reason to hook up the electric fuel pump. If your car still has the original Flat Tops... then the electric fuel pump will help a lot with hot starting and running on warmer days. In either case I would trace and remove the jumper wire someone else installed... you'll wind up with a short or floating ground you don't need... Hope that helps... Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com