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Pinbill

1971 240z Refurbish in Denver

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Welcome to the forum.  Don't know you paid for it, but looks like a gem definitely worth keeping in stock condition.

Did old lady down the street give you any specific reason for the car's decades long hibernation?  My guess is the 3rd gear syncro was going out and her husband never got around to addressing it.  It might worth opening the gearbox and taking a look.

I use to live in Denver off of 6th and Quebec back in the early 1990s, and recall seeing a red 240Z in the area.  Maybe it was this one.

 

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The last receipts were in 2008. They showed a new battery installed and a locked up rear wheel cylinder. The car was not safe to drive and the PO declined to have the wheel cylinder fixed. Mary Beth said her husband could no longer drive the car about ten years ago. The story jives with the receipts. She said she would help her husband into the car and he would run it in the garage. She finally remembered that he stopped sitting in it because the car ran out of gas. I think that's why it started so easily for me.

I will have the transmission out this winter and will take a look.

The car was driving in the 1990s. I live on Holly and Evans. It could have been the same car. Small world.

Edited by Pinbill

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Nice car!  Welcome to the classic Z car forum.  Hybridz.org calls us "purist".  Not a bad classification in my opinion.

If that's the original paint a good cut and buff will make it look like new.

The two pics in my signature, the one on the left was before cutting and the right was taken after the cut and wax by a pro.  I'm too scared to put a wheel on my cars.

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I wonder if the GM tranny fluid would help? It does sound like the 3rd synchro could be a problem. Nice looking car!

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 I was thinking of that too. Zup is the one who swears by A/C Delco Friction Modified. My first Z had a bit of a grind going into 2nd and 3rd. I tore it down and found all pristine synchros. I replaced them just because I had it apart, put it back together and used Kendall gear oil. It worked great. One year later, my friends, trans needed going thru. We replaced his worn synchros with my pristine used ones and it shifted fine. Looking back I suspect my original problem could have been cured with different gear oil. There is one thing that makes me believe your 3rd gear synchro may be bad. Normally the first synchro to go is 2nd gear followed later by 3rd gear.

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Welcome, Pinball! 

I live just south of the Denver metro area (Lone Tree).  One of my current 240Z project cars is a '71 Series II car that was also built in 6/71 and is also originally from Colorado. The 918 Orange with black interior car that spent over 20 years sitting in a garage up in Cheyenne, WY. That's where I purchased the car and brought it home by trailer.  It's VIN #HLS30-34495. Just curious,  is your car's VIN close to my car's?

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Yo dudes,  thanks for the nice complements. Lots of people

The paint color is 905 and the vin is 35549.

I was doing some reading about the syncros. It seems like people have had good luck with different fluids. I have enough  M90 redline left to do a flush. I may try flushing with redline and then switch to the GM and then try the Kendal fluid if need be. I won't be tearing into the car until the fall so I will have time to try a few fluids.

The rear suspension is pretty bouncy but doesn't seem to sag. I will replace the rear struts do most people replace the springs when they rebuild the struts? It looks like z car source has a kit with springs and shocks.

There is a car show this weekend in Aurora that's put on by a Colorado Z club. Unfortunately due to rain last weekend I had to postpone my patio tear out and can't make it.

 

Edited by Pinbill

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If I were going to replace the springs I would do it when I did the struts. Although the bounce in the rear probably has nothing to do with the springs.  Struts should help that. Most people change springs fo a slightly lower stance. I would suggest Eibach progressive springs.

Just be sure whatever fluids you try are safe for yellow metals!

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Update! And a few questions.

Put in some work on the interior. Cleaned it and got the drivers side window working. Put in new clips on the door card while I was in there. Picked up the seats from the upholsterer and installed them. The seat covers and foam from are from MSA. I was impressed with the quality. I ordered a window crank and door pulls from JDM parts and they were garbage. They are getting returned.  I hope to find a better quality replacement for these parts.

Had the car out today. It was a nice day for a drive. I took the car up I70 and it was hot outside. I have been able to shift up and downshift into third without grinding. I have to let the RPMs die down before I up shift and I have to double clutch at low rpms. I will still change out the fluid. I am getting excited to rebuild the suspension and steering. It rides like a 50 year old car.

I wanted to test the power going up the hill and check the temp. It did well. The gauge got almost to the P. It is usually between the M and P during regular driving. I don't always trust old gauges and senders but I think I am ok. The only way to know for sure is with an thermometer. 

I attached a pic of the transmission shift seal. It is leaking pretty good. The fluid level is correct. Also, it looks like the trans is leaking from the seams where the trans splits. Is that a common leak spot. Do I need to drop the trans to fix those two leaks?

Are the differentials in these cars noisy? Mine has a bit of a whine above 60mph. I changed the gear oil to redline and the old stuff looked good when I drained it.

Thanks again for all the responses.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Bill,

Good to see pictures of the interior of your '71!  Seats look great after the upholstery shop installed the new foam and new seat covers.  I also recently purchased the foam and the new seat covers from MSA - I agree excellent quality. Which auto upholstery shop did you have the seats done - Auto Trim Specialists on East Evans in Denver by any chance? 

Your dash appears not to have any cracks - is that correct?  Also, your car still has its original Hitachi AM radio - a very rare find!  

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Hey LTS,

Thanks man. I like to drive around and listen to the AM stations.

I live very close to Auto Trim Specialists. They gave me a good quote for a vinyl top on an a Chevy Impala once. A few years ago they wanted $150 to staple on a pre made motorcycle seat cover and I haven't been there since. I have been using Rema Upholstery Services. They are at I270 and I76 in Thornton or Commerce City. They did a good job. Not perfect, but they replaced the straps on the bottom, there are no wrinkles, and the vinyl is very secure. They greased the tracks too. It wasn't necessary, but I separated the seats and removed the brackets because I wanted to clean them. I dropped them off on Monday and they were ready on Thursday. They charged $350. The owner is a good guy you just have to call first to make sure he is going to be there.

The dash has a crack right in between the temp and fuel gauges. There is also a silver dollar size spot that has flaked off. You can barely see it in the picture, but you can't see it when you are sitting in the car. It is in a good spot.

Look me up if you drop your seats off in Denver.

Bill

 

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Update!!

I am going to take the car apart this week or next. I am getting my parts spreadsheet together. It is a bit tricky finding the right parts for an early model series 2 but I am making progress. 

I have decided to have the transmission rebuilt and keep the car original as possible. I would do a 5 speed but I would have to cut the tunnel under the console. I can't find a rebuild kit online for the f4w71a. I read online that the synchros are NLA but the bearings are available. 

Does anyone out there have the part numbers for the f4w71a synchros or have a set sitting on a shelf somewhere?

Thanks,

Bill

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That's great info, thank you.

If anyone out there has experience rebuilding these transmissions please correct me.

I spoke on the phone with a guy in PA who gave me the same part number for the synchros. 32604-P0100.  The trans takes four of them.

He also said the main bearings sometimes get confused because one has a snap ring. The part numbers were National 207 and 207L.

It looks like there are two counter shaft bearings and 5 needle bearings. Three of the needle bearings are the same.

I may try to rebuild this by myself....

 

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They're one of the easier to refresh transmissions that I've encountered. Maintaining the orientation of the disassembled parts (especially during cleaning) was always my biggest concern. I like to use wooden dowels to keep things in order.

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Found the ol' super seal set today for the F4W71a transmission. 93 with clutch boot. Can't beat it.

https://www.datsunparts.com/2534

I am a bit nervous to put the untested synchros in the rebuild. I may only need to replace the one for third gear. If I need to replace one then I can pony up for a good quality one. I am starting to feel better about the transmission parts availability.

Headed to see Jeff at Rally Sport tomorrow for a test ride and to get his opinion on what suspension/ steering parts to replace.

Thanks again for the help

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Had a great experience driving around with Jeff from Rally Motorsport in Westminster. He was very helpful and knows a ton about these cars. I wanted to give him a plug because he really helped me out with some great information.

 

Edited by Pinbill

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On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 12:25 AM, Patcon said:

I wonder if the GM tranny fluid would help? It does sound like the 3rd synchro could be a problem. Nice looking car!

I thought the 3rd synchro going out was a common problem.. I don't think some mysterty oil is going to fix it. He better might have it rebuild, there in the US there are plenty of shops who can do that easily. Not so easy to find here.. " uh it's old and when don't have experience with this japanese thing let alone parts "

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Thank man, I plan to keep it as stock as possible.

I scored a bunch of parts yesterday. A lady in Elizabeth, CO has a parts hoard. She sells parts on Ebay under Z car crazy. I got a right front marker light, a nice rear tail light, a window crank, a new style 240 mustache bar, a new style transverse assembly, and a used untested transmission for $415. Since I need to take the trans out anyway I am going to swap in the other one and see if it works. I can return the used trans if there is a problem and I found all the parts to fix the original one if I need to.

Today I am going to start soaking the bolts with PB blaster and order parts. I will be ready next week to get started. I am pretty excited.

Edited by Pinbill
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Great looking Z.  Good decision to keep it stock.  If you decide to replace your dash check this out: https://www.instagram.com/vintagedashes/ I have one for each of my 2 Z's, just haven't gotten to install them yet. 

I Have been to Jeff's shop, Rallye Sport, and can vouch for him too.  He worked on my R190 differential (4.44 from Datsun Competition in 1971) and did the final tune on the mikuni setup on one of my Z's.  Very knowledgeable on Datsuns and has raced the Z's and 510's.

 

Good luck on your transmission rebuild and the other work you have planned.

 

-Bill-

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