Pinbill

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About Pinbill

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    Denver

My Cars

  • Zcars Owned
    240z
  • About my Cars
    1971 240z.

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  1. Update. For reference in case someone runs into a similar struggle. Got the car shifting correctly. I was running a cheap aftermarket 240z "B" collar and it wasn't shifting right unless you really mashed the throw out bearing against the clutch fingers. That ruled out the pilot bearing, clutch hydraulics, and transmission. I also clamped the slave cylinder then pressed the clutch petal to test that it stayed firm. I ordered a genuine nissan 240z clutch collar, a new clutch disc, and pressure plate. I put them in last night and the clutch completely disengaged. It is shifting great. I think it was the pressure plate. I used an air rachet and may have damaged it or it was defective out of the box. A few tips that I learned: The trans goes in easier if you cut the heads off a couple bolts that are the same size as the lower bolts. Thread them into the motor to make guide pins and remove them once the trans is in. The trans goes in super easy and there is less chance of hanging the trans from the clutch. Don't use bolts to pull the trans into the motor. It will slide in right if everything is aligned right. Put the trans in gear and move the output shaft a bit if the splines don't line up right away. When using the clutch alignment tool, push up on it slightly when tightening the first two bolts on the pressure plate. The clutch disc will drop slightly if you don't put a little upwards pressure on the alignment tool. Leave alignment tool in when tightening pressure plate. Check a few times as you tighten to be sure the alignment tool still slides in smooth. Don't use air tools on the clutch plate. Tighten the bolts in a star pattern a little at a time. Before installing, slide the new clutch plate over the transmission input shaft splines to make sure it is smooth and doesn't get hung up. Don''t try to reuse a early style "A" collar with an exedy clutch kit for a 1970-74 240z. The collar that goes with a "B" style trans is 2mm taller from the throw out bearing to where the fork attaches. The shift fork hit the housing using my original "A" style collar. You can also add a washer behind the fork pivot ball to shim it out. The slave cylinder adjustment rod needs to be shortened as the clutch wears. The fingers on the pressure plate will move towards the transmission as the clutch disc gets thinner.
  2. Thanks man, When I say I need to make up 10mm. I am saying I need a collar that has 10mm more throw than my old A style. I don't blame you for tuning out of this. It has gotten convoluted and crazy to keep up with. I had a talk with a guy at MSA this morning. He was very certain that a B collar would work. I didn't want to argue so I ordered a type B collar from them and a 280z 2+2 collar. If the B collar is close to what I am running now I will put in the 2+2 collar. With two day shipping I should have an update by this weekend. Besides hard shifting, with the new suspension parts the car was very pleasant to drive. Took the turns real well and didn't smell like gas leaking from the tank. LOL.
  3. Collar made it the other day. It was the collar for the 240z B trans. It was higher than the collar for the A transmission. I could get the car in gear and it is better. I can get the car in gear and drive it. It shifts better when the car is moving. There is no way to get in reverse without grinding. I maxed out the pedal height and have the slave cylinder rod almost fully extended. The fork hits the transmission housing when clutch pedal is pressed. I am going to order the next size collar/ sleeve. The one for the 280zx 2+2.
  4. Got the brakes bled and feel good about the system. The pedal is firm but I haven't been able to do a test run yet. I will try drilling the MC sometime soon.
  5. Looks like the collar got shipped to Minnesota instead of Denver. Not sure when I will receive the collar.
  6. I took apart the proportioning valve today. I had the inner seal backwards. I am getting fluid to gravity feed from the rear wheel cylinders. I think when I bleed the brakes tomorrow it will be OK. The type B collar for the transmission is coming tomorrow. I hope to be on the road Sunday.
  7. I haven't had a chance to mess with the brakes. I have been trying to find the correct throw out bearing sleeve/collar for the transmission. The MC was working OK before I parked the car. My plan is to take the proportioning valve off and check the orientation of the orings first. I don't think I will be able to find an early "series 1" master cylinder. They are NLA and a used one will probably be worse than mine. If it comes down to it I will take a later style one to the brake shop and have them bend up some new lines. Here is a post where a guy drilled into the end of an MC, forced the plunger past some corrosion, and then tapped and filled the whole with a screw. I may try that before buying a new one. https://www.zcar.com/forum/10-70-83-tech-discussion-forum/419200-series-1-brake-master-cylinder.html We'll see where the dash goes. There have been a few high quality cars on Bring A Trailer selling for top dollar that had dash caps.
  8. I didn't realize you need to have the plates torqued to the flywheel to get a true measurement on the fingers. My first measurements were with the pressure plates on the table and so they looked the same. I torqued the old pressure plate and clutch to the flywheel and got 80mm +/- .5mm flywheel to fingers. I torqued the new clutch and pressure plate to the flywheel and got 70mm +/- .5mm flywheel to fingers. It looks like I need to make up 10mm. I ordered the collar/bearing for the 240z from Zcardepot. I am assuming its for the B transmission. It will be here in two days.
  9. I have the A type collar. I also forgot to mention that I will be temporarily hooking up the transmission with the A type collar tomorrow night for some further testing. I will bleed the system then watch the slave cylinder while a helper steps on the clutch pedal. I will take a few pictures. Its pretty cheap to get a B collar and bearing shipped two day air from zcar depot. I feel like there is enough evidence to try it. I didn't have help the last time I had it together so I couldn't see if the fork bottomed out on the bell housing, but the slave cylinder rod was almost fully extended it when it was adjusted right. The rubber boot was pushed to the rear of the car when the slave cylinder wasn't actuated. Definitely more clues. I should have done more testing when it was together. I was really excited to drive the car around. I just kind of freaked out and took it apart. As the clutch wears does the rod need to be lengthened or shortened?
  10. Alrighty, I am going to order the 1970-1974 collar from MSA. Here is my theory.... They list the collar as 70-74 but there were two separate collars at that time. One for the type A and one for the type B transmission. I think all new 240z clutch kits require the type B collar. I type A collars must be NLA. I don't think there are many cars on the road with type A transmissions and their first clutch. It makes it confusing when they say clutch kit for 70-74. It is really a clutch kit for late 71 and 72-74. No mention that early cars require a type B collar. I hope to remember to let you know how it worked out. It is not easy to order parts for these cars. LOL.
  11. I am starting to believe I need a new collar. The old pressure plate didn't have any "spring" to the bolts when I took it off. The new pressure plate had spring when I tightened the bolts. I was reading the fingers will suck in when the pressure plate is tightened. So the pressure plate fingers have the same height on the bench but the new one gets sucked in on the car. I am thinking about trying the medium size one from MSA. 21-2123. It seems similar to the 280z and 280zx 2+2 on the picture above. I don't like to guess but I don't have any other ideas. As the clutch wears in do you need to lengthen or shorten the adjusting rod on the slave cylinder? If you need to lengthen it as the clutch wears I am already maxed out with my current collar.
  12. I really appreciate all the input. I have read most of the links you sent at this point. I called MSA this afternoon before I posted. They confirmed the clutch kit I ordered is designed for the shorter collar that came in the A transmission cars. I also checked the Exedy clutch website to cross reference the part numbers. The pressure plate and the clutch plate part numbers are correct for a 1970-1974. I didn't think a 2.5mm difference would be a huge deal. I will bleed the system and see if that helps. Thanks again, Bill
  13. OK, I went out and put the stack on the ground. I really checked and double checked. The number I got was 89.5 It looks like my original bearing was a bit thicker than the new one. The fingers on both plates are exactly the same height. It looks like the Type B 5 speed collar from bearing to top of tab is 25mm and mine is 16mm. A type B would add 9mm putting me at 98.5mm. Does that seem like the right collar? 98.5 seems like a lot.
  14. I stacked everything up, stood up a thin screw driver, and made a mark at the top of the collar. The measurement I got using a dial caliper was 90.5. My work table is a little beat up so it must be +/- 1.5mm.