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ZG only went for $53K

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Less than I had expected.  I wonder what kept the price down - right hand drive?

Dennis

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Are the fender flares stock to the homologation class?  Do they call them "over-fenders" in Japan? 

Never heard of the ZG.  That's the thing about scarcity and popularity.  Best to be scarce and popular.  Scarce and not popular...not so good.

"The over-fenders riveted to its body begged for wider wheels, just like the Group 4 cars."

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I don't know where to begin.  I was in Monterey for two whole days.  I was on the track at Laguna, I was in the room the GTO sold in, and I saw countless gorgeous cars, but this ZG was 'the' car.  I cannot explain the emotions that flowed through me when I saw it for the first time.  I had never seen a real 240ZG in the flesh and I was amazed.  There are certain cars that photograph well and the ZG always does.  But with the aperture of the eye this car is so much more stunning in person.  The proportions are divine and the color is perfect.  This car is a Fairlady 240ZG (HS30-H) and it was a homologation car for the g-nose and the fender flares.  It only came in white, red, and this maroon.  There may be a few roaming around the states, but it is rare here.  The wheels could have been wider, but I wasn't focused on that.  I was taking in the whole package.  I couldn't help myself when I saw that the door was unlocked.  I have ridden in a number of Fairlady Z's and a Bluebird 1800SSS, but I had never been in the driver's seat.  I have tried to outfit the interior of my personal car to be as 'Japanese' as possible, but when I opened the door and slipped into the drivers seat of this HS30-H it was whole other world.  The door clasped shut.  I looked around from a different view and it was all so similar and yet so different.  I stared down that long hood with the mirrors peaking on each side as I gripped the competition handle.  It felt different than mine.  It was rougher and newer whereas mine is smooth and burnished to a shine. The steering wheel could have been a Nismo reissue from 1998.  Those details raced through my mind and all I knew was that I was in my automotive home.  

I feel so selfish and carnal, but when the time is right I will own this car.  It may take 20 years, but I am going to get it.  So many times I reveal myself on this forum, but I try to be me not hiding anything and to be real.  The 240ZG is really something special.  We don't think about it today, but in 1972 a 2.4L engine in Japan was a big deal. There were government regulations keeping most cars at 2L so the 2.4L cars were a luxury.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  

As for the auction result I was there to watch the hammer come down.  It was the wrong crowd for this car and it was late at night when the car sold.  The room was less than half full and it was a no reserve auction.  It sold quickly for 47.5K and with fees it was 10% more.  I wanted bid so badly, but I don't have that kind of cash.  What I do have is patience.  

 

Ben?

 

p.s.  Yes that is me with the car.  There were other cars around and I did look at them after I opened every door of this car and felt under its bonnet?.   I thought there were going to be five ribs beneath the piece of the nose with the emblem.  Speaking of the emblem I believe it was off an S130.  There was however the air ducting on the lower valence.  It was not a perfect car by any means.  It had all the signs of sitting and not being in use as of late.  I do believe this was the exact ZG that sold a few years back at auction in the states with a similar result.  I hope this car got to an enthusiast that is going to drive it and show it, but I am not so sure.  The crowd at RM/Sotheby's seemed much like the investment type.  I hope I am wrong.  

 

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Edited by v12horse
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9 hours ago, Zed Head said:

Never heard of the ZG.  That's the thing about scarcity and popularity.  Best to be scarce and popular.  Scarce and not popular...not so good.

Evidently.

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4 hours ago, v12horse said:

...I opened every door of this car and felt under its bonnet?.   I thought there were going to be five ribs beneath the piece of the nose with the emblem. 

Ben, did you put your hand underneath the bonnet extension panel, ahead of the bonnet? That's where the strengthening ribs are on the original factory panel.

Some of the photos of this car showed that panel to be slightly ill fitting/distorted. If there were no ribs it could indicate a later replacement.

Great story by the way. Believe. You'll get there.

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Alan, that is exactly where I put my hand.  Beneath the bonnet extension panel.  It was just the weave of the fiberglass and none of those ribs.  Now that I look at the photo, the gap does look inconsistent.  Thanks for the insight.  

 

Ben

Edited by v12horse

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4 minutes ago, v12horse said:

Alan, that is exactly where I put my hand.  Beneath the bonnet extension panel.  It was just the weave of the fiberglass and non of those ribs.  Now that I look at the photo, the gap does look inconsistent.  Thanks for the insight. 

Ben, if you felt any weave/texture on the reverse of that panel, it's wrong. Factory OEM finish on the underside of that section was gel coat, with the strengthening ribs very clearly defined and neat. I'll take some photos later to better illustrate, and will post them here.

The panel has probably been changed to an aftermarket version some time in the car's life.

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Hi Ben , You can find a good ZG , I think not taking so long time . This ZG was sold a right price for its condition, just in Japan pricing is crazy. Most of them are listed 8 to 13 million JPY , but all of them do not deserve its price because the condition is just like this car .

I know you know about this but please do not forget about checking the paper before buying, the code 02662-0070

is a mandatory for proving it is a real ZG.

Owning it In the US , the code doesn’t mean anything , but you may want to show  it to a future buyer when you have to sell it . It is almost impossible to authenticate without this code . ZG doesn’t have specific serial number prefix on its body, and  you can put every single ZG parts by your self to any car you wish .

Only very experienced experts can tell the difference .

RM Auction did provide the code ? I assume that kind of very professional and reliable, entertainment auction organizer is doing correctly as usual.

Kats

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3 hours ago, HS30-H said:

Ben, if you felt any weave/texture on the reverse of that panel, it's wrong. Factory OEM finish on the underside of that section was gel coat, with the strengthening ribs very clearly defined and neat. I'll take some photos later to better illustrate, and will post them here.

The panel has probably been changed to an aftermarket version some time in the car's life.

Some photos of an OEM Fairlady 240ZG 'upper nose'/bonnet extension panel for reference. Construction/material is very similar to the later factory rear spoilers, which is a more advanced form of FRP moulding giving very crisp definition and very stable shape.

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These panels are very vulnerable, and easily bumped by other vehicles when parked. I've seen all sort of repairs on the underside, with chopped strand and woven roving bonding being common. I've also seen a piece of wood glued under there (!) and some pierced steel self-assembly shelving even did the deed on one example. It would not be a surprise if the panel on the Bonhams Monterey car had been repaired at some time in its 45+ year life. It's easily rectified these days.

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Ben,

Nice write up on the ZG. I was there on Saturday saw the car in person as well. Besides the valid points you made on why the ZG sold for not as high as anticipated, I think the main reasons for it not selling higher was due to its condition and previous repairs done to the car.

When looking through the opening of the g-nose it was apparent that the radiator support was silver. At first I thought maybe the car was originally silver and just made into a ZG clone. But after opening the hood it was obvious from the poor welds and messy application of seam sealer that the front support had been replaced. The sub-par repair also caused fitment issues between the front headlight buckets and the fenders. Both floors had been replaced with just plain sheetmetal instead of stamped repros or floorboords from a donor car. The driver-side door jamb looked to have been previously repaired, possibly due to rust. When I opened the hatch there were loose rust flakes found all over under the carpet. An electrical fuel pump that was fitted underneath by the factory mounting points was jerry-rigged to a thin sheetmetal strip one would find at Home Depot. The body had numerous dings and wavy body panels, and the paint, while it still had a shine, had many spots where it was blemished or cracked. The hood emblem was the S130 version. These issues along with others I didn't note I think caused any potential buyers present to be turned off from buying the car.

I did try to ascertain if it was an authentic ZG or a clone. With the exception of the radiator support that was replaced by a silver one, everywhere I could inspect without ripping out interior panels led me to believe the car is an original GP Maroon car. I even looked under the liners in the tool bins and it looked to be the factory paint.

What shocked me the most was how well this car looked in the RM Auction photos vs seeing it in person. I was expecting the car to sell higher due to online bidders registered in the auction. RM Auction worked their magic in those photos.

 

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Edited by SSS-S30
grammer/typos
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ZG is a little tricky for the kind of auction, I am afraid how many people can feel “ZG is fantastic “ .

#1. Can Maroon be attractive for the people?

#2 Sticking to the stock condition must be required for the kind of the auction ,the car must have hub caps and 5 inch steel wheels , in this style ZG looks little wired , you may think “why the car has over fenders? “

#3 G nose urethane bumper must have certain gap between the head light case ,

but the bumper itself must be nice and straight when you see the front of the car .

And like Alan said , the upper front extension panel also must be nice and parallel with having the equal gap between the bumper and the bonnet.

So , ZG is complicated, some must be looked “ imperfections “ but some must be looked neat and perfect. 

Small thing makes a big difference, and I hope when a perfect ZG is showing up the auction, people can feel it’s beautiful atmosphere from the car . 

Even more , when you are behind the wheel, you can feel the acceleration is really good and also handling is very well in high speed cruising, with a silence.

The Nissan test crew reported ZG gains its stability when the car put a rear air spoiler.

Kats

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Edited by kats

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On 8/31/2018 at 4:09 AM, Zed Head said:

Are the fender flares stock to the homologation class?  Do they call them "over-fenders" in Japan? 

Never heard of the ZG.  That's the thing about scarcity and popularity.  Best to be scarce and popular.  Scarce and not popular...not so good.

"The over-fenders riveted to its body begged for wider wheels, just like the Group 4 cars."

I can't believe that you've never heard of one, as a member here with 9000 odd posts. 

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9 hours ago, SSS-S30 said:

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Quite apart from all the other issues with the car, that front license plate makes me very nervous.

Hopefully it was put on to create some 'atmosphere', but it's all wrong for the car. The taxation class is wrong for a genuine ZG (it's for a car with capacity under 2000cc) and any car hailing from Sapporo needs extra scrutiny of its structural condition because more than half the year it is snowy and icy up there. There's one old car dealer in Sapporo who has a particularly bad reputation for make-do-and-mend type repairs that are covering up all sorts of nasty stuff.

Edited by HS30-H
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I just want to show these pictures, the car could be an automatic car then converted to a stic shift , I am curious about the rear diff replaced to correct gearing for FS5C71B and , it must added  a metal stopper (with a rectunguler rubber ) for the clutch pedal. Can someone tell what the code on the rear diff is telling , 4.1 ? 3.9 or 3.5 ? I see 73, that means 1973 .

Or like Alan said, different carbs/air cleaner and intake set up, the car just had installed an automatic balance tube.

I need to see a lot more carefully. 

If the car was an automatic, the specific code for genuine Fairlady 240ZG equipped with an  automatic is 02662-0100 .

Nice optional rear stabilizer bar .You may find other interestings.

Kats

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Edited by kats
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After looking at the car , it seems to me the car is a manual transmission car. General condition of the car is tellimg me if someone who has done the car like this would remain many evidence of "automatic transmission" in it. I do not see the radiator has two oil cooler aduptor , nor see brackets for the cooler piping on both sides of the engine block, nor a temp sensor  for the dual point distributor .

Kats

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Edited by kats
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Kats, First time I've seen some of those photos. Thank you.

What do you think about the finish of the reverse sides of the headlamp cowls/cases? The lower nose assembly looks authentic to me, but Ben already mentioned the chopped strand FRP finish he noticed on the underside of the bonnet extension panel and it seems to me that the reverse sides of the headlamp cases have the same (I think incorrect) finish.

Possibly evidence of replacement/repair?

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I see it , and I did not realized it , the real over fenders are the same appearance, chopped strand FRP finish . But for the front extended panel and the head light case , must be gel coat , I will see my ZG which is still all original , never been hit ( the car has minor injury on left door and fender ! ) .

I see the car has no drain plugs on both sides of the floor, replaced at some point past and deleted passenger foot rest .

I gathered information, this car could be September or October 1972 car , in that case , carbs and air cleaner etc are correct for the year I think . 

This car is the eleventh from the cut off date of a new big master vac , new pedal bracket,  automatic adjustable clutch operating cylinder , FS5C71B went to sleeve type (Z432 remained flange though) etc .That was made in September 1972 , HS30- 100001.

Kats

 

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1 hour ago, kats said:

After looking at the car , it seems to me the car is a manual transmission car. General condition of the car is tellimg me if someone who has done the car like this would remain many evidence of "automatic transmission" in it. I do not see the radiator has two oil cooler aduptor , nor see brackets for the cooler piping on both sides of the engine block, nor a temp sensor  for the dual point distributor .

Kats

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Kats, you might want to clarify that the above photos are not the Bonhams ZG, but are examples of an Automatic Transmission-equipped car for detail reference?

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That is right Alan , yes I must clarify those pictures are my automatic car , not Bonhams ZG . I put them just for the reference. 

Thanks !

Kats

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28 minutes ago, kats said:

 

 

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Kats, I've always believed that shot of the underside of the bonnet extension in the factory service manual (G1-21 above) shows either an early, early production or almost pre-production panel. The horizontal strengtheners on the underside are not anything that I've seen on any of the (many!) genuine ZGs that I've had a good look at over the years, and are certainly different than the four vertical stiffening ribs that I believe were used for series production.

In which case is it another example of the factory documentation needing to be treated with caution? What do you think?

 

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