Potential & Low VIN!!

[texasz]

Here's one with a low VIN and seems to have lots of potential:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2405109223&category=6187

[Bambikiller240]

The picture of the VIN plate on the dash shows the tag mounted to the dash with screws!! All three of the 240Z's that I've owned had that tag mounted with blind (pop) rivits. I'd be examining the car, and the locations of the other VIN plates VERY carefully. The clincher would be the VIN stamped into the firewall.

I'd want to be very certain that this car hasn't been altered to appear to be something that it may not in fact be.

Call me suspicious (of anything)!!!

Carl (shoulda been born in Missouri:) )

[inline4]

does look kinda fishy

you could always look on the firewall but then again, that could be fudged too

[2ManyZs]

Let's wait and see if he will post a pic of the interior, the console should tell some of the "rest of the story".....

Judging by the looks of the car, it's nearly into "parts only" category with all the pats that are missing and the brushed on primer on the body. Wonder how bad the rust is.....

[Zedrally]

I'll don the flame proof overalls before I hit the send button!!!

Guy's its a well known fact that the early 240's didn't arrive with complience plates attached.

Over here the dealer gave you the plate for you to screw on if you desired!

So I wouldn't poo poo it just yet.

Looking at the photos it may well just be what it is, a low VIN LHD zed. Worth it just to get the plate.

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by Zedrally

I'll don the flame proof overalls before I hit the send button!!!

Guy's its a well known fact that the early 240's didn't arrive with complience plates attached.

In the US, I've never seen one that wasn't rivited in place, except when someone was doing a chop job (or front/rear clip). The real telltale will be the VIN stamped into the firewall, not the tags that can be moved with relative ease.

Originally posted by Zedrally

Looking at the photos it may well just be what it is, a low VIN LHD zed. Worth it just to get the plate.

Only for a "plate" collector. If the CHASSIS isn't what it should be, the plate is meaningless.

2ManyZs, the console can be changed in half an hour by you or me, so it won't prove anything. But I doubt the seller would bother, since he was too busy brushing on the primer!

[Zedrally]

That's exactly the answer I was expecting!

Is there anyone out there with a 240 with a VIN between 200 & 500 who can verify how the plate was mounted?

[Mike]

Guys, I've asked Carl Beck to jump in on this one. I just sent him the link to this post and it's got me curious as well.

It's ok to be wary of these things, but, also remember that a dash can be replaced as well. The numbers that matter are probably on the frame.

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by Zedrally

That's exactly the answer I was expecting!

Is there anyone out there with a 240 with a VIN between 200 & 500 who can verify how the plate was mounted?

If the seller really knew what he was doing, he'd have posted a picture of the VIN stamped into the firewall, instead of the plate that either has, or could have been moved from one dash/car to another.

Seems to me he's looking for a buyer with his "head in the sand". Because he's sure not showing anything that "proves" that what he's got to sell is in fact #212

PS I'm not flaming you, Zedrally. I'm discussing this from my perspective as an eBay buyer who has seen many things offered that were not what they were claimed to be. Even with my "buyer beware" attitude, I've been burned a few times so I question everything that isn't perfectly proven.

[Mike]

Maybe the seller doesn't know what they are doing...

Or, maybe they DO know what they are doing and haven't posted the firewall pict.

In any case, this deserves some research by the buyer. Only thing we can do is tell them how to go about verifying all this info.

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by Mike

Maybe the seller doesn't know what they are doing...

Or, maybe they DO know what they are doing and haven't posted the firewall pict.

In any case, this deserves some research by the buyer. Only thing we can do is tell them how to go about verifying all this info.

Yep!

[Gav240z]

If he couldn't be bothered finishing his primer job what makes u think he could be bothered finishing his botch job on the vin number??? :classic:.

In Australia we didn't get the Vin in the dash we just got it on the firewall and on the compliance plate. It is sneaky that he's not shown a close up clear photo of the vin #. Most people show that if they mention it in the add.

It's good that Carl is watching out for these things however there's alot of people who will BS to you without even blinking.

If it was in Australia I'd be willing to take a look .

[inline4]

the car's in carl's and my neighborhood... i'm there for school almost everyday.

if someone wants, i could check it out. but who's to say that the firewall couldnt be welded in as well?

[ZwolleY]

ROFL ROFL Check out the miles. This would keep me from buying it. ROFL

[Zedrally]

Ok having stirred the pot, I've looked back at the photo.

I would doubt that it is the original motor.

Anyone looked at the inlet manifold?

Strange devices attached for an early model.

If memory service me right I see a vacuum relay and a throttle advance thingie[can't think of the correct word, maybe dashpot].

Surely these devices didn't appear on the low numbered VIN,s.

So what have we here, a possible low numbered Z without matching serials?

Who knows, and until someone actually sees it , well...... as for the milage, ahhhhh

[Stryder]

In california if there is no vin plate the car gets impounded. It does not matter what the conditions are. With this in mind I wounder why the car would not come with the plate already on it?

just my 2 cent$

[texasz]

These cars are 30 +/- years old. We would have to know when this law was passed CA to know if this car is was subject to it when it was built and imported.

[Bambikiller240]

The law requiring VIN #'s has been around for at least as long as I've been into cars which dates back to the mid 1960's. I think it has been around much longer, but I'm not sure.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:

Mike G. ask me to check in on this discussion. For those who do not know me. I bought my first Datsun 240-Z in March of 1970 and I've owned and driven them ever since.

I've been researching the history of the Datsun 240-Z, in a fairly serious fashion for about 15 years now. I've compiled a listing of hundreds of VIN/Build Date/Original Engine Serial Numbers for both the Right Hand and Left Hand Drive models.

I presently own HLS30 00020 and HLS30 00042 (among others). A close friend owns HLS30 00016 - the lowest left hand drive chassis number sold to the public. He also owns HLS30 00019 and HLS30 00052 (among many others). So I do have some knowledge related to the very early cars.

Mike from Australia is correct in his statement about the "compliance tags" on Right Hand Drive models imported into Australia. In 1970 cars were accompanied by paperwork only which said in effect that they complied with all laws in force upon arrival at the Port of Entry. Compliance tags were affixed to the cars at the Port of Entry starting late in 1971 as far as we can tell.

The lowest VIN imported into Australia was HS30 0004 and it was built in January or Feb. of 1970. I have communicated with the owner of this car and his research agrees with mine. Contrary to popular Myth in Australia - there are no 1969 production year Right Hand Drive models - they didn't start production until 1970.

All 240-Z's imported into the US had to have their VIN affixed to the car - one tag visible through the windshield, the chassis had to have it's number stamped into the metal. The Date of Manufacture had to be affixed to the car. (required by our Federal Highway Admin for both Safety and Emissions requirements).

One thing common to both Right Hand Drive (HS30) and Left Hand Drive (HLS30) models was the data tag in the engine compartment. It contained both the VIN and the Original Engine Serial Number. Nissan only had one production line for the L24 engines and they have only one series of serial numbers, so we can cross reference engine serial numbers to build dates - and arrive at a build date for the Right Hand Drive models as well - even though they didn't receive the data plates that provide that information.

All that said - the VIN tags were always riveted in place on the dash. The very early cars into the US did not have the emissions evap. controls - so no vapor lines returning to the rear of the car. Many early cars into Canada did not have air pumps nor the air injection into the exhaust manifold.

On the car in question - the hood stops on the firewall are incorrect for a very early car and the plastic fresh air deflectors from the radiator core support to the inner fender are not the original type found on early cars. The Throttle Damper - was standard on all US cars. But all / any of this could have been changed over the years.

HLS30 000212 has been on my listing since Oct. of 1995 - it was owned by Greg Scott of Santa Claira, Calif. and had a build date of 11/69. One should request the original engine serial number for this car - it should be something close to L24- 02xxx.

Carl S. is correct - inspect everything personally and very closely before you buy.

Feel free to me mail me at: [email protected]

regards,

Carl B.

[Mike]

Thanks for looking in on this one, Carl.

[Bambikiller240]

I emailed the seller this evening and inquired about a brief inspection of the car. He's replied that he would be willing to make the car available in the next couple of days. If I can clear my schedule enough to make the run to San Jose for a look, I'll do my best to check it out thoroughly and report back to you all what I find.

Now I am NOT well versed in exactly what equipment should and should not be on #212, if those that truely know (knock, knock, Mr. Beck ) would send me a PM with a few tell tales it would help me to report what I find. I know where to find the tags and where to look for the VIN stamped into the firewall, and I believe that unless the chassis was altered by a "master bodyman" I could identify a chop or "clipped" chassis.

[go z racer, go]

Carl Beck---Hey Carl, it's me Jerry, your fellow "Mac guy." The owner you mentioned with the early vin number "16," would that be our Florida buddy, Jimbo? I remember him telling me once he had "one-over" you. I could never figure out what he meant by that, until I read your most resent/first post here. Now it makes perfect sense. That's funny too, but typical Jimbo.

Anyway, it was a real treat to see your expertise on this site, take care.---Jerry

BTW---Kudos to Bambi Killer 240Z as well, he may have just saved one of us from being burned.

[Bambikiller240]

Well, somebody bought it for $2,025.00 Buyer has no feedback so he's a newbie to eBay. I wonder if he is a member of this club?

Also wonder if he viewed thec ar in person.

I never did get to view the car as my schdule got messed up and I could never get in touch with the seller.

Hope it is worth it. I don't think it would have been worth that much to me, but then again I did not view the car in person, so who knows.

PS: in doing a search to find this thread, I discovered a previous thread from Oct 02 where someone reported this same car for sale at $1800. Guess the seller is happy now!

[EScanlon]

I sent the buyer a message inviting him to join the club.

Hope he joins.

Enrique

[Ron Carter]

Carl, while we have you on the line...I have some questions about a motor i recently purchased with a low serial number and a Slover modified head and BRE cam. I am hoping you can help validate a few suspicions of the origin of this motor.

Thanks,

please email me off line at [email protected]