Front Brake Upgrade: Toyota 4x4 Calipers - Solid Rotor vs. Vented Rotor

[coop]

John, the Porterfield shoe compounds just don't have enough coefficient of friction though they do last forever. The Carbotechs have more bite but they are now having problems with some or their chemical suppliers as they were trying to help me out but couldn't. I do remember a long time ago some shoes that had some bite and yes, I think they were the Ferrodo Green Stuffs that I think you could get through Nissan Comp at the local Nissan parts counter. I like the idea of the grooving but am told that there may be a legality issue there so I never tried it.

As far as Hardway's post goes, John, don't you think the best thing for him to do is just upgrade to rear discs and put in an adjustable proportioning valve?

[EuroDat]

Hi Larry, If he goes down that road, will he also need to upgrade the MC to an early 280ZX model? I was just wondering because the fluid capacity (surface area) of the rear calipers is more than the drum cylinders. The pedal travel would increase considerable.

[John Coffey]

JI like the idea of the grooving but am told that there may be a legality issue there so I never tried it.

As far as Hardway's post goes, John, don't you think the best thing for him to do is just upgrade to rear discs and put in an adjustable proportioning valve?

The grooving is no different then a worn set of drums. Run a set of shoes down to the metal and you'll get grooves.

The Toyota 4x4 conversion using the common 280ZX and 240SX rear disc and 15/16 MC setups are heavily front biased. I've worked on VARA cars that had that setup and we completely removed all rear brake proportioning and still couldn't get enough rear bias. One solution we found was to use Karmann Ghia front calipers in the back with the Brembo solid rotor. When Nissan built the FIA Group 4 brake system using the MK63 caliper they also increased the rear wheel cylinder size for the back brakes while retaining the front 7/8 MC. A balance bar solves the bias problem and that's why I developed the dual Tilton MC bracket I sell.

[SandyI]

I'm running the Silvermine rear brake kit with Toyota 4x4 front calipers, solid rotors and Project Mu brake pads perfectly installed by Beta Motorsports. (Thanks, John) The difference in braking power during my track events is stunning, especially in heavy braking zones like turn 3 at Auto Club Speedway where I had issues with Porterfield pads (that I hated). All that being said, if I didn't track my 240Z, I never would have upgraded the stock brakes which were perfect for all my street driving and canyon carving needs.

[Ben's Z]

Wow, learned a lot here. I did the rear 280zx disc brake swap mostly for aesthetic reasons. I was going to do the 15/16" 280zx MC and the Toyota 4x4 brake upgrade, but all I do with this car is cruise around. Waste of money eh boys?

[ZCurves]

Ben, I would reconsider. In my 25 years of S30 ownership, I can safely say that the brakes, especially the front brakes are crap, crap crap. Particularly when we look at how well the rest of the S30's were engineered. I wish that I had known about the Toyota upgrade back in the 80's when I was younger (and stupid) and regularly raced around town- brake fade was common place. You are half way there already AND getting ready to go turbo! But on the other hand, you could 'gift' me your remaining uninstalled parts;) ...

[John Coffey]

I can safely say that the brakes, especially the front brakes are crap, crap crap.

Can't safely say that with me here... :classic:

[LeonV]

Ben, I would reconsider. In my 25 years of S30 ownership, I can safely say that the brakes, especially the front brakes are crap, crap crap. Particularly when we look at how well the rest of the S30's were engineered. I wish that I had known about the Toyota upgrade back in the 80's when I was younger (and stupid) and regularly raced around town- brake fade was common place. You are half way there already AND getting ready to go turbo! But on the other hand, you could 'gift' me your remaining uninstalled parts;) ...

I'm not sure if you've read the contents of this thread?

[conedodger]

For the original posters purposes, the stock brakes are the best option when in good condition. If I only autocrossed, I could go years on a set of pads. I have always had a problem with the word 'upgrade' as it applies to the Toyota Caliper. Why add so much unsprung weight? A good well maintained stock system will work fine.

My neighbor came over the other day with boxes and boxes of parts. Probably a $1000 worth of brake 'upgrades'. In my opinion, they would have been great parts to put in play for a track car. He wanted me to help him install them and he helps me with my cars all the time. I said 'just for giggles, let's bleed your brakes really well first and see how that goes. You have pretty new performance pads already and SS brake lines too", He said ok and we jacked up his 350Z and bled the brakes with some Super Blue that I had on the shelf. When we were done, I said ok, go take it out and stomp the wizz out of it. He came back and said the fade was all gone and it stops like a champ. Too bad, he had to pay shipping for the Willwoods and the new pads and SS brake lines in both directions. His brake fluid? Was probably original to his 2004 60K miles car. Yup, your going to have fade in that situation.

For what you are describing, you just need well maintained stock brakes.