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hls30.com

What makes a Z a Z? What modifacations go too far to be called a Z?

    What Mods make you question whether a Car is still a Z?  

    160 members have voted

    1. 1. What Mods make you question whether a Car is still a Z?

      • A non L series Engine
      • A non Z Engine
      • A Non Nissan Engine
      • Non Z ECM transplant
      • Non Z ECM
      • Harness Grafting
      • Too many Interior modifications
      • Too many Exterior Modifications
      • Any deviation from as the factory made it
      • ANy deviation from stock not covered by parts supercession


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    What matters (to me) is what Nissan themselves called the cars, and that is something that you should certainly take notice of.

    There, I fixed it for you.

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    I'm with John, although I'll go with the VIN stamped into the body as the ultimate say. And I'll also second everything Alan has contributed. Everything else is as fluffy as a 9th grader's English paper.

    The problem with that is your California DMV and your Insurance Company, will tell you different, whether it is by changing the rates they charge, the emissions you must meet, or adding a string to your title for a modified vehicle. Not all states are that way, but I have yet to see an insurance company that did not get keenly interested-and sharpen their pencil-when asked to insure a vehicle with a swapped engine-if it was as original that would not be the case. John is in New England-no clue about their DMV, but I bet John could drive around it!

    Edited by hls30.com

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    OK, according to the poll,a deviation from the stock engine is a significant part of what people are concerned with. But the most popular answer involves Too many Exterior Modifications. As long a you keep the hood closed, which is how you see a car as it drives by, you can't really tell what engine is there, but the exterior modifications can stick out like a big red wart of your nose.. I wonder how radical people can get with external modifications.

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    OK, according to the poll,a deviation from the stock engine is a significant part of what people are concerned with. But the most popular answer involves Too many Exterior Modifications. As long a you keep the hood closed, which is how you see a car as it drives by, you can't really tell what engine is there, but the exterior modifications can stick out like a big red wart of your nose.. I wonder how radical people can get with external modifications.

    Tomowan,

    Remember Zness is in the eyes of the beholder, but by the same token there are some cars that you may not want to see because you cant un-see them, and the visual image may be damaging to your eyes. There are several threads here that have many of these in them-you have even participated in some of those, but some threads are better left unopened...in my opinion...there is one Caterpillar yellow "Z" snow plow that comes to mind...and will not leave-damn.

    On that vein Japan had/has a somewhat popular practice of putting seriously oversize spoilers on cars-there is a thread on that somewhere-and that definitely is off my scale for lost Zness.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to be correct in their own eyes, and to share their opinion when asked, but no opinion is necessarily right other than to its beholder-I am just aS interested in the opinions we have here as I am the cars.

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    Since I have a heavily modified 240Z, let me list as many as I can remember and you can decide which one(s) move it into the "no longer a Z" column.

    Engine: 3.2L Rebello, triple 44mm Mikunis, TWM air box and K&N air filter, Pertonix in a euro dizzy, MSD 6AL and tach adaptor, MSA jet coated header-wrapped, AZ 6-qt oil pan with Brad Penn 20-50w green oil, GM 120amp one wire alternator, Coolflex hoses, AZ Z radiator, twin fans, custom dampener, 8mm mag wires, NGK plugs (#7), and Mallory comp fuel pump.

    Suspension: TTT LCAs, TTT T/C rods, AZJDM outer tie rods, AZ Z RCAs, STS front and rear sway bars, bump steer spacers, poly bushings, GC biscuit style camber plates, cut down struts, Tokico HTS shocks, 275F/250R GC springs, PDK front strut bar, roll bar and MSA rear strut bar, 2.2 neg front camber w/4 degrees caster - 2 degrees neg rear, 0 toe, and corner balanced.

    Drivetrain: 1980 280ZX tranny, race balanced drive shaft, Rod Tyler diff mount w/GM ploy bushing mount, 3:90 diff w/Quaife, 300ZXT CVs with MMS stub axles, BBS style CWW 16-inch wheels w/ Yokohoma 225/50 fronts - 245/50 rears.

    Brakes: 280 booster, 15/16 MC, Wilwood fronts and 240sx rears (Porterfield pads all around)

    Body: MSA g-nose w/headlight trim and covers, custom hinges, FG rear bumper, Classic Datsun rear spoiler, custom gnose airdam and splitter, custom mini-rear flare, paint, left side mirror reversed to fit right side, and AZJDM tow hooks

    Interior: Cobra seats, Race Quip 3-inch harnesses, 280 tach, Panasonic radio/CD and Boston Audio speakers, Classic Datsun carpets, dynomat, and CF pedals.

    Electrical: H4 head lights, LED rears, Zonthebrain relays, Pilot fogs, and Hella horns.

    If not listed it's still stock (un-cracked dash, wiring harness, tail lights, etc.).

    post-7328-14150819860001_thumb.jpg

    Without the since added headlight covers, trim and splitter.

    So is it still a Z?

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    Mr. K is the Jean Luc Picard of car designers.

    I love that!

    I was 10 yrs old when the Z came out and it was stunning! Me and the rest of the guys I charged around thought it was the cats arse. For me the exterior style is a Z,

    Nissan built a great car but it had lots of flaws like every other of that era. They had to make a profit on each unit, so,

    they cut some corners. Now that I own one I don't have to cut corners, I can put in more comfortable seats in, more reliable wiring, a more powerful engine, better headlights and on and on. As long as I don't screw with the true beauty of the car, the lines, the thing that grabs everyone, then I am only enhancing the practical matters, not the essence.

    Chris

    Lots of good stuf there!

    I am all for correcting the accountants compromises in our Zs, I just want to do it with parts specifically made or dressed to fit the nature of a Z. I took out the clock in the radio faceplate of my Z32, and moved the 12 outlet from the ashtray area to the faceplate-I cut up both to move them-everything I used except the energy, epoxy, the filler and the paint was 100%Z- that is my commitment to keeping Z-nes in my cars, now I did upgrade to HID lighting with a generic kit marketed for Z32s, I also have some JDM Nissan Parts on the car as well-mostly lighting, I try to upgrade with actual Z parts when ever possible, and when not, I usually modify what is already there. I did add a Plug for the 12Volt outlet to finish it-came from a Volvo, but sculpted and painted to match the Z-I will keep looking for a Z part to do that job, but in the meantime it is handled by a modified an unidentified volvo part.

    Since I have a heavily modified 240Z, let me list as many as I can remember and you can decide which one(s) move it into the "no longer a Z" column.

    Engine: 3.2L Rebello, triple 44mm Mikunis, TWM air box and K&N air filter, Pertonix in a euro dizzy, MSD 6AL and tach adaptor, MSA jet coated header-wrapped, AZ 6-qt oil pan with Brad Penn 20-50w green oil, GM 120amp one wire alternator, Coolflex hoses, AZ Z radiator, twin fans, custom dampener, 8mm mag wires, NGK plugs (#7), and Mallory comp fuel pump.

    Suspension: TTT LCAs, TTT T/C rods, AZJDM outer tie rods, AZ Z RCAs, STS front and rear sway bars, bump steer spacers, poly bushings, GC biscuit style camber plates, cut down struts, Tokico HTS shocks, 275F/250R GC springs, PDK front strut bar, roll bar and MSA rear strut bar, 2.2 neg front camber w/4 degrees caster - 2 degrees neg rear, 0 toe, and corner balanced.

    Drivetrain: 1980 280ZX tranny, race balanced drive shaft, Rod Tyler diff mount w/GM ploy bushing mount, 3:90 diff w/Quaife, 300ZXT CVs with MMS stub axles, BBS style CWW 16-inch wheels w/ Yokohoma 225/50 fronts - 245/50 rears.

    Brakes: 280 booster, 15/16 MC, Wilwood fronts and 240sx rears (Porterfield pads all around)

    Body: MSA g-nose w/headlight trim and covers, custom hinges, FG rear bumper, Classic Datsun rear spoiler, custom gnose airdam and splitter, custom mini-rear flare, paint, left side mirror reversed to fit right side, and AZJDM tow hooks

    Interior: Cobra seats, Race Quip 3-inch harnesses, 280 tach, Panasonic radio/CD and Boston Audio speakers, Classic Datsun carpets, dynomat, and CF pedals.

    Electrical: H4 head lights, LED rears, Zonthebrain relays, Pilot fogs, and Hella horns.

    If not listed it's still stock (un-cracked dash, wiring harness, tail lights, etc.).

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]55336[/ATTACH]

    Without the since added headlight covers, trim and splitter.

    So is it still a Z?

    If you keep your foot out of it while inside a huge concrete building with me, yes!

    Most of what you have done is with Z specific parts, to me you still have a high level of Z-ness, Modifications don't necessarily hurt Z-ness, Zrush-highly customized, still very Z! Roger Berrys cars, and ex cars lots of Z in them, but lots of distance from Z as well-dosen't mean I don't love to see them and didn't love taking pictures of them at Daytona-hell, my Alpha1 GTO, more something else than Z even with the ZX Turbo drivetrain-doesn't mean I would change anything to make it more Z -or feel bad because of that-It is on the way to being what I want it to be.

    Edited by hls30.com

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    '71 in Option 2 with a 250 mph suspension and the latest Skyline race motor, or a stock resto, or a $1500 rat rod, all beautiful to me.The only ones the make me question if it's really a Z are the ones that act like they want to race and then cheeze at the light.

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    [ATTACH=CONFIG]55336[/ATTACH]

    So is it still a Z?

    The first thing I noticed was the bumper, which made me think "Porsche 911" but looking at all if it, makes me think "G-nose Z" so there you go. Since I haven't seen it up close, I'll give you the benefit of "not seeing it up close yet." :D

    I'm not a fan of the big rims, but it looks like there is still a little air between the tires and the fender lip, which is good.

    Will-

    I remember the snow plow, but I don't remember the image! haha

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    My Z is pulling daily driver duty for now, the paint is trashed, there are patches of spray bomb primer all over it and in general the car is not "complete". It looks like the work in progress that it is.

    That said, 99% of the time I stop at a public place I get some sort of positive comment about the car. I'm constantly getting horn beeps and the old thumbs up at traffic lights and stop signs. At least once a day I get someone saying "don't see them cars around any more" or the like. It's a very common thing to walk out of a store and find people doing walk arounds on the car, even found a guy crawling under her before. And like I said, she is a little rough still. So, you don't need to have shiney brakes or a corvette motor to get attention, I actually get more than I like.

    It ain't a pissing contest, it's an oppinion thread.

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    ...

    Will-

    I remember the snow plow, but I don't remember the image! haha

    That is so wrong, I may have to edit your signature and put that picture in it! JK-not about the "thats so wrong though!

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    /\ Stanley that is the funniest thing i've seen thus far today, awesome. Born to follow, there are thousands of those drivers out there :)

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    I tend to think of anything that is reversible as being okay but depending on a person's skill level almost anything is reversible. I also like the idea of anything goes to overcome no longer avaialble parts.

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    I also like the idea of anything goes to overcome no longer available parts
    That's beginning to be a problem lately. I do some autocross, and the tech guy is getting strict. You try to explain that the car has been out of production for almost 40 years, but the tech guy just says, "It's not stock, according to the SCCA rules" to your aftermarket part, and he puts your stock S30 into a more expensive class, like ESP (E Street Prepared.)

    So either you build a full-out competition car to compete in the modified class, or build a time machine to get factory parts, or you buy a new BMW, to go to the local autocross.

    But for regular street driving, I would just go with whatever will make the vehicle functional, reliable, and safe, and still allows you to maintain the Z-ness. Most spectators don't know the difference, or will mis-interpret the part as a mid-model-year correction of some sort (the casting lines on the intake are supposed to be "corrective welds" so I was once told.)

    Edited by TomoHawk

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    That's beginning to be a problem lately. I do some autocross, and the tech guy is getting strict. You try to explain that the car has been out of production for almost 40 years, but the tech guy just says, "It's not stock, according to the SCCA rules" to your aftermarket part, and he puts your stock S30 into a more expensive class, like ESP (E Street Prepared.)

    So either you build a full-out competition car to compete in the modified class, or build a time machine to get factory parts, or you buy a new BMW, to go to the local autocross.

    If you're trying to compete in D Stock then yes, you need stock (or stock equivalent) parts. All of those stock or stock equivalent parts are available to build a 240Z to run in D Stock. We have a couple here in Cal Club that legally run in D Stock. What most likely happened is that you added a couple non-stock 240Z parts (like maybe those rims on your picture which are 1/2" wider then stock) so your car gets classes accordingly. SCCA's Solo2 classing systems doesn't exist to make any marque specific group happy. There is no guarantee your car will be competitive but they do guarantee a place to compete. And the 240Z is still reasonably competitive in Street Prepared and in the new Street Touring categories, although no one is really trying in those categories anymore. Its still the dominant car in FP.

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    My car is a '78 John, and I'm in class E (E stock.)

    But I would say all the parts are stock equivalent. It's just the little nitpicky things that tech people are concerned about, like the missing emblem that was never on the hood, since I bought the car. It makes you feel as if they don't want you there,. The rules make some allowances,mentioning "provided that the weight of the car doesn't change significantly," IIRC, but from what I've been told, the weight of a hood emblem is significant on a 2600 LB car?

    The rims are from a ZX, and are the same width as the steel ones.

    I considered STR or STX, but the cost of the new tires required is outrageous.

    This autocross stuff should be in another topic, probably.

    Edited by TomoHawk

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    Sounds like your tech guys are ****heads. I have never seen the CalClub tech (of which I was in charge for a bunch of years) every take issue with a missing emblem. Those kinds of issues are left to the competitors to work our on their own or through the protest process.

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    I think I got the last gnose that MSA had and it was terrible. I got a partial refund which I gave to the body shop. Of course they didn't have hinges so I had ones reverse engineered from an original set Mike K loaned me.

    The front bumper is one that made for the gnose.

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    Since I have a heavily modified 240Z, let me list as many as I can remember and you can decide which one(s) move it into the "no longer a Z" column.

    Engine: 3.2L Rebello, triple 44mm Mikunis, TWM air box and K&N air filter, Pertonix in a euro dizzy, MSD 6AL and tach adaptor, MSA jet coated header-wrapped, AZ 6-qt oil pan with Brad Penn 20-50w green oil, GM 120amp one wire alternator, Coolflex hoses, AZ Z radiator, twin fans, custom dampener, 8mm mag wires, NGK plugs (#7), and Mallory comp fuel pump.

    Suspension: TTT LCAs, TTT T/C rods, AZJDM outer tie rods, AZ Z RCAs, STS front and rear sway bars, bump steer spacers, poly bushings, GC biscuit style camber plates, cut down struts, Tokico HTS shocks, 275F/250R GC springs, PDK front strut bar, roll bar and MSA rear strut bar, 2.2 neg front camber w/4 degrees caster - 2 degrees neg rear, 0 toe, and corner balanced.

    Drivetrain: 1980 280ZX tranny, race balanced drive shaft, Rod Tyler diff mount w/GM ploy bushing mount, 3:90 diff w/Quaife, 300ZXT CVs with MMS stub axles, BBS style CWW 16-inch wheels w/ Yokohoma 225/50 fronts - 245/50 rears.

    Brakes: 280 booster, 15/16 MC, Wilwood fronts and 240sx rears (Porterfield pads all around)

    Body: MSA g-nose w/headlight trim and covers, custom hinges, FG rear bumper, Classic Datsun rear spoiler, custom gnose airdam and splitter, custom mini-rear flare, paint, left side mirror reversed to fit right side, and AZJDM tow hooks

    Interior: Cobra seats, Race Quip 3-inch harnesses, 280 tach, Panasonic radio/CD and Boston Audio speakers, Classic Datsun carpets, dynomat, and CF pedals.

    Electrical: H4 head lights, LED rears, Zonthebrain relays, Pilot fogs, and Hella horns.

    If not listed it's still stock (un-cracked dash, wiring harness, tail lights, etc.).

    Without the since added headlight covers, trim and splitter.

    So is it still a Z?

    CF pedals??? That's definitely not a Z anymore. That just pushes it over the line for me. LOL LOL LOL

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    I can't believe more people have not voted at least! I have to believe several of the passionate Z owners I know who have not jumped in have an opinion...Bueler, Bueler, Bueler...

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    Body: MSA g-nose w/headlight trim and covers, custom hinges, FG rear bumper, Classic Datsun rear spoiler, custom gnose airdam and splitter,

    still a Z?

    Since it wasn't a Gnose in the first place, I would have to say no on this one, but the conversion looks nicely done, so you can still appreciate the car. All the rest is pretty much hidden or not as noticeable, according to the 50 MPH rule, so I could let that stuff slide.

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    The G-nose is still a Z, of course, but to me it really looks like a different car -- a gorgeous car, no doubt, but still not quite what I think of as a Z.

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    CF pedals??? That's definitely not a Z anymore. That just pushes it over the line for me. LOL LOL LOL

    Any carbon fiber is over the line. Why do pople think it looks cool. I would use CF if I lost my legs or if I where an aircraft designer.

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