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JohnnyO

920 Gold

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I am a little confused. I was at a local paint dealer talking about ppg paints and have decided to go with the DP line of epoxy primers (I have already acid etched the car) and I had a sample of the 920 Gold made up from the PPG formula in the computer. I brought it home and applied some to an area that did not get sunlight of the last 40 years and the color was alot browner than the stock color.

To be honest it looks a lot different than alot of the 920 Gold cars I see online. I also hear it refered to as Safari Gold.

Is Safari Gold and 920 Gold the same color or was the early series 1 gold different than the 71 920 gold?

Thanks,

John

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Safari gold is Datsun code 920 and it is the same for all 1970-71 cars. Another member TVollnogle had this same issue recently. I know he had to work with his painter to get the right color match, but I'm not sure what the solution was. Send him a PM in case he doesn't see this.

-Mike

Edited by Mike B

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Much has changed in the chemical makeup of paint over the past 4 decades. A formula that was passably close 30 years ago may not look so good when used with today's paints. Safari Gold is not the only color that suffers from this problem, most if not all of them do.

In my case, my painter started with a commercial formula for 905 red, but then custom tinted it to match the underside of the toolbox lids. The results were quite good.

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John,

As Mike said, I experienced this several months back with the 920 Safari Gold and could write a book on what I went through. I'll post here later today on my experience and resolution. At the time, it was suggested by several that I start a thread about it but I never got it done.

Terry

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110 Red is another color that isnt quite right when mixed with todays paints. I didnt have a sample so I'll have to live with 'close enough'.

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Hi All,

I’ll try to give the short version of my paint color experience.

I had decided to paint my formerly orange ’70 240Z with 920 Safari Gold during restoration since I had a ’71 Z back in the early ‘70’s that was 920. Since my painter uses Dupont paints, that is what I went with. I had wavered between single stage and 2 stage (basecoat/clearcoat) but in the end decided to use 2K single stage, then color sand and polish.

I took the body to my painter on the rotisserie and he shot the interior and engine compartment. After seeing the color, I was of the opinion that it was darker than I remembered the 920 being. I contacted Carl Beck and Jim Frederick down in Florida and sent color samples to them for an opinion. After comparing the samples to other 920 cars (Jim has one original and one of the Z Program cars), they both thought it was too dark.

I contacted Pierre at Pierre Z Car and Les Canaday at Classic Datsun since they had been involved in the Z Program cars. They said that they used Dupont paint on the Program cars and both gave me the same formula:

920 Safari Gold:

DMA 383 40.0

DMA 311 100.0

DMA 346 180.0

DMA 329 1030.0

Les still had a Nissan supplied 920 Safari Gold paint color sample with the formula on the back. They were to use it as quality control for checking that the colors were coming out correctly on the Program cars.

During this process, my painter was having the Dupont rep mix different samples to try to come up with the correct color. I lost track of how many we did.

In the end, I sent a sample board of the 920 in Dupont ChromaSystem basecoat/clearcoat (mixed with the above formula) to Les and he compared it to his sample board from Nissan. He said it was as close as you could hope to get it.

I ended up reshooting the engine compartment with Chroma One single stage, but used the ChromaSystem basecoat/clearcoat on the body since I knew from Les that it was correct. I didn’t want to risk another color variation due to changing paint systems. The reality is, now that the body is painted, the engine compartment in single stage and the body in 2 stage appear to be the same.

The problem with the original single stage being dark was that my painter had used another Dupont poly line (can’t remember which one) and due to the different base for mixing, the color didn’t come out the same as the original color like the Chroma line did. Dupont called the paint a “blendable color”, meaning it might not be dead on but should blend in when doing repair work. In my opinion: not so.

If you have any questions, contact me.

Terry

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This is great, because my Z is in the paint shop right now. They use Glasurit paints, and I just dug up the formula for 920 on the Glasurit website. So what I'm hearing is that the formula will likely not match the original color? This is going to be a long job too, they're going to strip in down and repaint. The guy also doesn't work on the car 8 hours/day because their other work comes first. I need to find the paint formula for the rear light trim panels.

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I dont have the code for the rear panels but Les at Classicdatsun.com does have the paint in rattle cans.

PPG lists the 920 gold as 71/72. I am pretty sure it was a 70/71 color but cant find that chip.

Hope that helps.

John

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Brian.....I have a PPG chip(Safari Gold) for my 71........looks pretty close to the original to me and my painter......you can buy a pint and shoot a chip......remember 35 years of fading makes comparison difficult. Also, Chuck hasn't jammed anything yet.....will pass it on when he starts shooting. Guy

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I learned that there are two different paint formulas out there in the PPG world. Caused by EPA taking different chemicals out. The first 918 we mixed was no where close and the second one was spot on. The second one had some additives to get the color back. Did the mix a pint and see trick. In the end I think it was money well spent. I did use a single stage paint color sanded and polished it.

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Hey, JohnnyO!!

We stumbled across your thread and have an input. Color code #920, Safari Gold (which we always called Butterscotch) goes at least all the way back to 1969 Z #HLS30-00013 (which is that color), and was a popular color till the end of the 1971 model year production. It didn't carry over to the '72's. I can't say if any of the prototypes or mules were #920 or not, the only one I know among the first 12 is #00006 which was originally #908 dark green. This doesn't help match your paint, but we just thought you'd like to know.

All the best, Kathy & Rick

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I did use a single stage paint color sanded and polished it.

That brings me to my next question:

What are the drawbacks (if any) to using a single stage paint? I was thinking of going that route with a high quality paint.

John

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Color code #920, Safari Gold (which we always called Butterscotch) goes at least all the way back to 1969 Z #HLS30-00013 (which is that color), and was a popular color till the end of the 1971 model year production. It didn't carry over to the '72's.

I am thinking that it shows up in the PPG computer because they probably didnt have a formula for the year it was released by Datsun. I would imagine that with the popularity of the Z came the mad rush to supply paint for them as "rookie" drivers learned how to drive them and probably all to often wrecked them. That still doesnt explain why the link at TPC Global:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1970-datsun-pg01.jpg

only shows the available year as 71.

I know it was available in for 1970 model year cars. My car is fully documented back to the purchase and the color on the warranty book is 920 Gold, as are the floor boards, rear strut towers and deck, etc. I removed the vinyl inside (another thread to be started soon ;) ) and found some very nice paint that has not seen the light of day in almost 40 years. I used my razor to pull a 1x1 chip up and off to the paint store I went. I hit the closest CarQuest that mixes paint just to see if they could analyze the sample and compare it to the computer formula. I got the feeling that they didn't even want to help me out. (they must have known that I wouldn't buy from them in the endLOL) They told me that my chip was too small. So I said to the guy, "you mean I can go to Home depot with a sample about as big as my pinky finger nail and they can acurately match it but you cant do it with a 1x1 chip?" He just smiled and said "our analyzer needs a bigger chip."

I packed up and left. My sample will accompany me to the closest commercial paint distributor this week. I talked to them on the phone and they too show Gold 920 as a 71/72 color. I corrected the salesman and asked if he could analyze it and he said he could. He was at $387 for a gallon of Deltron 2000 + reducer ($46.00/QT) + clear ($156.15).

After seeing the formula posted above I am thinking about going with Dupont. I know there are a lot of oppinions on paint but can anybody give me a reason not to use Dupont vs. PPG? I plan on using the top of the line (or close to it) in either brand, I just want the correct color.

Sorry it got so winded and thanks again to all,

John

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I wouldn't assume that PPG is going to be off just because of my Dupont experience. As a7dz said, he hit it right on with one of the formulas.

If it was me, I'd shoot some samples and compare them to a known correct color. You could contact Les Canaday and see if he'd compare a sample to his Nissan supplied sample if you sent it to him.

John, the reason I was going to go with the single stage and then polish was to stay close to the original style of paint. I was advised by several painters that the single stage would achieve that better. I feared that the basecoat/clearcoat would look too "artificial" but that is not the case. I'm pleased with the results. I did polish the clearcoat.

Also, I have a formula for the rear light trim panel paint. Dupont converted it for me from a different paint line formula I found in one of the forums here. In the end, I didn't feel it was cost-effective to mix it and just bought the spray cans from Les Canaday.

Terry

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BPilati: Here is the link to the ppg chips online:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1971-datsun-pg01.jpg

Terry' date=' Thanks for the help. I might have to consider Dupont instead of ppg if that is the best match. I had a sample of the PPG mixed and it too appeared too dark.

Thanks all.

John[/quote']

Thanks John. Good god that 920 gold isn't even close. It's closer to orange. LOL I'm pretty certain gold was not available in 72.

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Terry, I see you painted the wheel wells too. Is that a stock thing or were they just over sprayed originally. When I stripped mine I thought there was a light overspray of topcoat followed by a black paint of some sort (not undercoating) followed by red-oxide.

I was thinking painting them black for contrast. Probably use POR products.

John

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Pardon the poor images, but I do not have a quality scanner at hand.

The DuPont Color card, page A-75354 listed the Paint Code 920 as follows:

Lucite Code: 8717L

Centari Code: 8717A

Dulux Code: 8717D

Keith

post-7301-14150808269914_thumb.jpg

post-7301-1415080827055_thumb.jpg

post-7301-14150808271048_thumb.jpg

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John,

I had this discussion about the undercarriage with Carl Beck within the last year when I was getting ready to paint. I'll take the liberty of quoting him since this is just informational:

Hi Terry:

Your observation is correct. The undercarriage was sprayed with a very light coat of paint the same color as the body. When new, the paint under the car almost looked like an overspray - somewhat flat or dull, not a shinny paint job like the the top of the car.

Most of the 69 and first few months of 1970 production cars had no undercoating other than in the wheel wells... we aren't certain when the factory started also coating the floorboards, but most Series I cars built after 06/71 have had it.

The factory undercoat was a very fine grain, rubberized type, sprayed on the prime coat and then painted over to match the car. Usually it extends up into the transmission tunnel - but not clear around the tranny.

All this was done, before the fuel and brake lines were installed and before the suspension was put on the car. Most of the suspension components were simi-gloss to gloss black (gloss black on the fuel tank). There is an access pannel in the right rear wheel well - three or four screws hold it in place. That one panel seemed to painted with the same paint used on the body.. it was far more shinny and better finished than the wheel well itself.

Carl

What I ended up doing was spraying the entire undercarriage with Zero Rust. I then sprayed it with tintable bedliner material tinted to 920. The color comes out slightly milky looking which I was told it would. It is not a noticeable difference with the wheels on and sitting on the ground.

Terry

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Here are some pictures of the undercoating (bedliner).

Terry

Wow, that looks awesome!

I will try and post some pics of my 920 undercarriage and wheel wells this Friday. It is all original and the build is 3/70. All still in very good condition. It is as Carl described in the earlier post.

post-19125-14150808273632_thumb.jpg

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The decision to use single stage paint vs. basecoat/clearcoat may also depend on how you intend to use your car. Rock chips/dents/dings will be easier to touch up with a single stage paint. So, single stage may be better for a car that will be driven a lot.

For those wanting to stay close to the original look a single stage enamel is probably the way to go. Keep in mind that the paint formulas available for re-paint are not the same as what the factory used and that the chemical composition of paint is changing all the time (try to find laquer these days!). That may account for some of the color differences. The best bet is to find a good paint shop or good painter who can match the color based on a sample. A tool bin door, gas door or inspection lid provide a good reference if the paint is still in good shape.

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John,

I had this discussion about the undercarriage with Carl Beck within the last year when I was getting ready to paint. I'll take the liberty of quoting him since this is just informational:

What I ended up doing was spraying the entire undercarriage with Zero Rust. I then sprayed it with tintable bedliner material tinted to 920. The color comes out slightly milky looking which I was told it would. It is not a noticeable difference with the wheels on and sitting on the ground.

Terry

WOW! Thanks Terry. Exactly the info I needed. As I absolutely hate undercoating I will probably coat with POR-15 then prime and paint a light top coat as Carl describes. I would guess that the POR will take the place of the light undercoating that was in place from the factory.

I have another question for you. That is a very nice and small rotisserie you have there. Where would a guy find one like that?

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The decision to use single stage paint vs. basecoat/clearcoat may also depend on how you intend to use your car. Rock chips/dents/dings will be easier to touch up with a single stage paint. So, single stage may be better for a car that will be driven a lot.

Good point but how many in/out body shops know single stage paint these days. I would imagine that every new vehicle made today is base/clear.

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