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Zedyone_kenobi

Front end 'spook' options..

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After looking at the HybridZ windtunnel tests again it looks like a more apples to apple comparison would be test 13 compared to test 16. That compares both the BRE chin spoiler and the MSA airdam without any grill blocking that was done for both in later tests and made a big difference.

BRE Spook #13 CLF = .279 lbs of lift = 233 lbs of drag = 307

MSA A/D #16 CLF = .287 lbs of lift = 195 lbs of drag = 300

Steve

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Hi Steve:

I stand corrected. If you focus too closely - these numbers start to move in the columns.

I should have read farther down - #16's note just said; " add MSA's type 111 air dam"... so I was thinking that was the only change.

Now reading #17 it does say "block off upper half of air dam". But looking at the pictures, it looks like they really blocked off the area that would have been above the bumper. Nonetheless, it looks like they did remove all other "blocking" from the BRE test at #16.

BTW - - BRE Spook #13 the CLF should be .342 {I think you show CL above which was .279}

So:

Positive Number = down-force

Negative Number = lift

As I understand it - that is because the sensors are below the wheels. So positive numbers push the car down on the sensors increasing the numbers on the gauge, where negative numbers show the car lifting off the sensors.

<pre>

BRE #13 CLF=0.342 lbs. of lift(down-force)=233 lbs of drag=307

MSA #16 CLF=0.287 lbs. of lift(down-force)=196 lbs of drag=300

The BRE Spook puts 37 lbs more down-force on the front of the car at the expense of 7 additional lbs of drag.

But look what they both do to lift/down-force on the rear wheels

BRE #13 lbs of lift rear = -43.158

MSA #16 lbs of lift rear = -54.850

</pre>

Pushing the nose of the car down - should off-load ie. raise the rear. I would guess that the BRE Spook even though it pushes the nose down farther - doesn't raise the rear as much, because it is directing more airflow over the top - and having more effect of the rear spoiler. Where the MSA air dam puts more air around the sides of the car. So less drag, but allows more lift on the rear.

At any rate - the guys at HybridZ did a great job and I hope they do another run.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited by Carl Beck

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As pictured here. Are you certain that they removed this on your car?

attachment.php?attachmentid=24708&d=1219377244

attachment.php?attachmentid=24707&d=1219377244

Yup Arne, behind my front air dam, its open as the sky.. (i.e. no sheet metal at all back there...)

Well at least not valance panels, have sheet metal where it is suppose to be..

Edited by Zedyone_kenobi

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True that, I never did like those add on Airdams.

It may may true they increase down force so don't get me wrong, but they

do as you said completly throw off the intended style of the car as a

sleek aerodynamic sports car.

Infact I'm willing to bet those alos increase wind drag :ninja:

Call me tommorow Zedy and I'll give you the number to my friend Jaun, he has

a few Z's and may be willng to sell you a center piece and needed parts if

you need them.

I'll use my shipper to get 'em to you safe, same guys I ship the

ANSA's with :beard:

~Z~

Get a hold of your guy Wing!!! I am on the hunt for perfect condition front pieces!!!

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Yup Arne, behind my front air dam, its open as the sky.. (i.e. no sheet metal at all back there...)
Seems odd to me that someone would go to the trouble of cutting that center mount off the core support. Dang, that's going to complicate the job.

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Well that center support may be there, I have never seen a picture of it. Do you have a pic of it so I can go look.

Honestly, I have not looked at much in front of the radiator support..Most of my work has been behind that...So it may be there or not, I would need to go see if I knew what to look for.

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Hi Steve:

I stand corrected. If you focus too closely - these numbers start to move in the columns.

I'm with you on that one! I think I was looking at Cl and Clf and mixed them.

I've attached an .xls from data found on

http://www.zcarpartsindex.com/index.php?title=Aerodynamics

So:

Positive Number = down-force

Negative Number = lift

As I understand it - that is because the sensors are below the wheels. So positive numbers push the car down on the sensors increasing the numbers on the gauge, where negative numbers show the car lifting off the sensors.

I was looking at it the opposite way. Positive was the amount of lift. Lower numbers = less lift, negative is actually downforce. Look at test #2 which is stock baseline. There is 312 lbs of lift on the front and 55 on the back. That would be one of the best if positive = downforce.

Regardless, the airdam and BRE spoiler are close enough that one really need not feel he has to give up any performance to get that classic Spook styling. My first '73 way back when had a BRE style chin spoiler and an IMSA 3 piece and has always been a favorite.

Steve

Z_aero.xls

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Well that center support may be there, I have never seen a picture of it. Do you have a pic of it so I can go look.

Yes, Arne posted two pictures of it in post #10 and they also show in your post #28.

-Mike

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Yes, Arne posted two pictures of it in post #10 and they also show in your post #28.

-Mike

These are cropped from Arne's 2 pictures.

post-15469-14150806008648_thumb.jpg

This is the support that's welded to the radiator cross member.

post-15469-14150806008496_thumb.jpg

Edited by JonnyRock

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Yes, Arne posted two pictures of it in post #10 and they also show in your post #28.

-Mike

For some reason these pictures are not being displayed. I'm only getting red Xs.

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These are cropped from Arne's 2 pictures.

[ATTACH]27943[/ATTACH][ATTACH]27944[/ATTACH]

This is the support that's welded to the radiator cross member.

I will check my car to see if I have that tonight, if not, I will need to procure a donor. And it will make me wonder why I do not have that, if it was welded, I need to see if it was removed and how.

Should be some fun detective work!!!

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Geezer, I had the same problem with the red x on this post also... but got around it by right clicking on the image and selected "open image in other tab" image is avail. (windows xp) in other tab and when you come back to this post the images are shown as they should be. Nice looking car Zedyone! Not to change the subject on this post but...... what color code is the silver painted on your car?

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Good deal! I wouldn't think that someone would cut that off after removing the stock valance parts. That should ease the conversion immensely.

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Get a hold of your guy Wing!!! I am on the hunt for perfect condition front pieces!!!

PM sent Bro, not sure if am too late or not ^_^

Hit me up on the phone if you need to.

~Z~

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Hey, when you get the valances for the front you might want to add some more suport to the factory parts so the spook won't bend the metal as much. The parts were not designed to have a large spook and all that downforce on it. I plan to do that to mine when I add the spook (not the Z to your right). The z I have the original owner had one on the car and you can tell.

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hummm.... I've had the BRE Spook on my 72 since Dec. 71, and it has been just fine. The only time I've seen the Spook bend any of the panels is when you hit parking curb's with it.

It would seem that securing the rigid Spook to the sheetmetal panels, actually reinforces them. There really isn't all that much force on the Spook itself - as it simply redirects the air flow up into the radiator opening and on up over the hood... the reduced air flow under the car, and the increased airflow over the car account for the reduction in lift or additional down force... but that pressure isn't applied directly to the Spook itself.

FWIW,

Carl B.

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I tend to agree with Carl. While I've only had my spook on for a couple of years and about 6000 miles, almost all of those miles have been at highway speeds. I had mine off recently to clean and wax, and the sheet metal is just fine.

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I tend to agree with Carl. While I've only had my spook on for a couple of years and about 6000 miles, almost all of those miles have been at highway speeds. I had mine off recently to clean and wax, and the sheet metal is just fine.

If that is the case I'll be well off then especially if a add some reinforcement around the holes. I've never hit anything with the front or any part of a Z except some very light scrape on a giant speed bump that an officer directed me to go over (they took the top off the bump shortly after that). I've heard from others on forums that they have had some mild problems and I know with silver on my truck it will show very easily.

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I am having a heck of a time finding these parts. I thought I had a bite from Hybridz.org but they have not panned out. Does anybody else have these three parts in sandable/paintable condition.

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Good luck for original center section that don't need straitening even if you do you might need to tweak it little to get it to line up.I've never had a hard time finding the side panels you need, but the center sections are usually in bad shape. The piece is very simple and a body shop should be able to take a not so perfect one and make it better. I've never had a hard time finding the side panels you need. I wish I can help more right now but I don't know your area.

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I am having a heck of a time finding these parts. I thought I had a bite from Hybridz.org but they have not panned out. Does anybody else have these three parts in sandable/paintable condition.

I am trying to sell my front valence peices but the center section is a little tweaked and the center support is missing. The two outer panels our in decent shape and will need to have a little rust sanded off. It is not rot though. I took pictures but unfortunatley they are on my home computer. I will post them as soon as I can.

The reason why I am selling these pieces is because I am looking for an air dam. Are you selling yours? Maybe we can make a trade plus cash.

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I am trying to sell my front valence peices but the center section is a little tweaked and the center support is missing. The two outer panels our in decent shape and will need to have a little rust sanded off. It is not rot though. I took pictures but unfortunatley they are on my home computer. I will post them as soon as I can.

The reason why I am selling these pieces is because I am looking for an air dam. Are you selling yours? Maybe we can make a trade plus cash.

Lets see these pictures. I am circling some piece parts right now and hopefully can come up with some good ones. I think I have a center valance identified, but still need to find dent free left and right ones. Please post up some pics. Yes, i would be willing to trade my front air dam for some good left and right parts

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