Sign in to follow this  
Mike B

Scarab on eBay?

    Recommended Posts

    It looks like this may be an original Scarab on eBay.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-Z-Series-1-OF-18-1976-DATSUN-Z-ORIGINAL-CALIFORNIA-SCARAB-CAR-153_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6187QQihZ012QQitemZ220267073326QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

    Sounds like it doesn't have the original engine installed by Scarab, though. Not sure how that effects the value, or even what the value of these cars are.

    -Mike

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Lots of post scarab-conversion changes, a seriously modded scarab-I wouldn't think it would be as valuable as one that is "un-fooled-around" with, but Vicky(ZRUSH) is the only one I know restoring a scarab...

    Will

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Sounds like it doesn't have the original engine installed by Scarab, though. Not sure how that effects the value, or even what the value of these cars are.

    -Mike

    ...It would mean that I could then feel guiltless over pulling it for an L28 (maybe with a turbo to make use of the boost guage), but then again I'm a pedant and a snob :smoke:

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Here's a picture of a real one to compare the eBay car to. I only have this one picture.

    post-4148-14150803960486_thumb.jpg

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Looking @ that Nissan door tag made me cringe. Z's gained 1000lbs in less than 8 years!
    That's the GVWR. The GVWR includes the net weight of the vehicle, plus the weight of passengers, fuel, cargo and any additional accessories, as opposed to the curb weight which is the weight of a fueled automobile with standard equipment but without cargo or passengers. If you compare curb weights, the difference between a 240 and a 280 is about 380-500 lbs depending on the years compared. Edited by sblake01

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Neat car. I'm not a huge fan on V8 swaps, but the Scarab just seems more acceptable for some reason. Probably the fact that it maintained the original hood line.

    This one looks quite nice.

    Any guess at reserve / selling price?

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    That's the GVWR. The GVWR includes the net weight of the vehicle, plus the weight of passengers, fuel, cargo and any additional accessories, as opposed to the curb weight which is the weight of a fueled automobile with standard equipment but without cargo or passengers. If you compare curb weights, the difference between a 240 and a 280 is about 380-500 lbs depending on the years compared.

    I'll buy that. The listed max load capacity of my 71 is 420 lbs. (Which almost makes it a one person car... ) Rule of thumb is that a "series 2" (Forgive me those who know better) weighs about 2400 lbs. (curb weight)

    So 2400 + 420 is 2840, which is 383 less than the GVWR shown.

    The hint is that the placard shows a higher REAR wheel weight, which isn't true without passengers and cargo.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I don't know about the authenticity of the Scarab for sale on ebay. I am the second owner of an original 1979 factory Scarab. Number 153 to be exact. The manufacturing plate on the Scarab for sale on ebay does look authentic. However, unless Scarab Automobiles produced two #153 Scarabs, then someone either pulled or is trying to pull a fast one. There are a few pictures of my Scarab posted on cardomain.com. They can be found listed as a 1975 Datsun 280Z (the original donor car) under my user name scarab153. I have all of the original paperwork from the first owner, including the purchase agreement signed by Brian Morrow and dated 12-18-78. I am waiting to hear a response from the seller on ebay. I'll post again after I hear from him.

    Thanks,

    Larry

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I like the Scarab. It's a very neat and rare modification. For some reason, however, the modifications to the Ebay car just don't look right to me. Things like the MSA air dam, blacked out window moldings, mirror emblems, BBS wheels, guages, mesh headrests, banged up rocker panels, and an ID plate that doesn't seem to fit... I just think something's fishy....

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    This may or may not be a Scarab, however the engine is in the JTR setback position and that is a JTR (Jags That Run) hood latch. This may be a JTR makeover, but it is still a nice V8 Z from the pictures.

    Edited by Dudeboy

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I don't know about the authenticity of the Scarab for sale on ebay. I am the second owner of an original 1979 factory Scarab. Number 153 to be exact. The manufacturing plate on the Scarab for sale on ebay does look authentic. However, unless Scarab Automobiles produced two #153 Scarabs, then someone either pulled or is trying to pull a fast one. There are a few pictures of my Scarab posted on cardomain.com. They can be found listed as a 1975 Datsun 280Z (the original donor car) under my user name scarab153. I have all of the original paperwork from the first owner, including the purchase agreement signed by Brian Morrow and dated 12-18-78. I am waiting to hear a response from the seller on ebay. I'll post again after I hear from him.

    Thanks,

    Larry

    Thats very interesting, please keep us posted on/if the seller contacts you.

    I am sure the potential buyer would like to know this as well. Not long ago, it was possible on Ebay to contact a bidder, unfortunately, that option has been taken away. On more than a couple occasions, I was able to warn a high bidder about a "less than honest" seller.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Sounds dodgey. But I can think of a couple of theories to cover it (other than scarab making 2 #153).

    Theory 1. Ebay car is a fake and somehow got a scarab id plate, as red car owner claims to have original scarab paper work.

    Theory 2.

    Ebay car, is a scarab, He sells the engine after he decides it's not powerful enough.

    It gets put in the red car, which gets a scarab kit makeover. And since it has the original #153 engine (They had numbered intake manifolds apparently), the PO is able to get a replacement tag from scarab?? and maybe copies of paperwork?

    I'm wondering what details are on the paperwork. If it lists the Nissan chassis number as being the same as the red car, then thats the original one. If it list the blue cars number then thats the original one. If it doesn't list the chassis number, then nothing can really be proved by it.

    Oh the shenanigans that PO's will get up to.

    I'll bet on the red one.

    MEZZ. You could report the car to ebay as it's may be being misrepresented as an original scarab, when possibly it isn't, and send them a link to the other #153 on cardomain. Though whether they would actually take any action is anybodies guess.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    MEZZ. You could report the car to ebay as it's may be being misrepresented as an original scarab, when possibly it isn't, and send them a link to the other #153 on cardomain. Though whether they would actually take any action is anybodies guess.

    LOL, dont even get me started on Ebay and their fraud protection services they offer for buying a car. I wouldnt have this one sitting in my garage right now if they did what they claim.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Well according to the owner of Scarab #154 is was a production error. Scarab screwed up and made 2 cars with the number #153.

    The one on e-bay is not a fake!!!

    There are 2 cars numbered #153.

    It was a mistake on Scarab's part

    Blue Scarab 153 build date 2/28/79

    Red Scarab 153 build date 6/1x/79

    White Scarab 154 build date 6/21/79 (mine)

    I'm guessing the time lapse between the blue and red car (4 months) was sufficient time to lose paperwork/not check the proceeding cars Scarab number.

    Again the car is real.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Intriguing... all 8 employees would have had to take their shoes off to count to 153 and beyond.ROFL

    Seriously though, I can see how that could happen and slip through the cracks. Just makes the the cars in question more interesting and adds to the history of the Scarab. That should up the price a bit?

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I like the Scarab. It's a very neat and rare modification. For some reason, however, the modifications to the Ebay car just don't look right to me. Things like the MSA air dam, blacked out window moldings, mirror emblems, BBS wheels, guages, mesh headrests, banged up rocker panels, and an ID plate that doesn't seem to fit... I just think something's fishy....

    The original airdams were made of fiberglass and you know what happens to fiberglass when you curb it, it breaks. The typical replacement was a MSA urathane (sp) part.

    My car came with blacked out window moldings, I don't know what mirror emblems your refering to however those are the correct mirrors for a Scarab (my car does not have these) BBS wheels where original equipment from Scarab, guages(?) it does have the original SCARAB logo on the turbo guage so it's a Scarab part, mesh head rests are attached to RECARO seats, that's the way they came back in the day. Dents in the rocker panels, I'm guessing he ment "frame rails" which typically get dented from jacking up the car.

    I know you've done your home work on these cars before!!!

    My Scarab #154

    100_5015-1.jpg

    100_5003.jpg

    If you look closely you can see the mesh headrests

    100_5001.jpg

    IM002655.jpg

    (They had numbered intake manifolds apparently),

    Never heard of that one...

    Another "plausable" explanation is that there was a mistake at the engravers shop who made the ID badges. Nobody has brought that up as of yet.

    Edited by nwa240z

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    OK after reading the ad for the 10th time (ebay) he put a 5 speed in the car, thus he used different engine mounts (setback) and what looks to be a JTR tranny X member and hood latch (GOOD EYE there!).

    So basically he took the Scarab and put in a JTR setback conversion.

    Is it a still a real Scarab? Yes.

    Is it the proper set up/period correct? No

    What's it worth? Whatever somebody is willing to pay.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    If one owner has all the original documentation showing #153's purchase and the car is still "correct". That is Scarab #153.

    If another owner has a car with the correct badges, same Scarab number - wrong engine mounting position, wrong front spoiler, and NO ORIGINAL FACTORY DOCUMENTATION showning that the car was produced on that date and later sold by Scarab - then all he has is a HybridZ with a STORY TO TELL.... At best he has a SCARAB Replica...

    Is is a mistake to assume that the Scarab facility made any mistakes on their numbering - when they bothered to number their cars to begin with..

    FWIW,

    Carl B.

    Edited by Carl Beck

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    OK after reading the ad for the 10th time (ebay) he put a 5 speed in the car, thus he used different engine mounts (setback) and what looks to be a JTR tranny X member and hood latch (GOOD EYE there!).

    So basically he took the Scarab and put in a JTR setback conversion.

    Is it a still a real Scarab? Yes.

    The question is, "was it ever a Scarab?".

    The blue Z on E-bay is presented as being a two owner car - were you the first or second owner? I'm wondering why you believe it is a Scarab - when so many things say it is not.

    FWIW,

    Carl B.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I also noticed the telltale signs of a JTR Conversion, as the distributor is underneath the hood latch, not in front a bit. And the hood latch is custom. Even if it is real, wouldn't you call this a heavily Molested Scarab?

    But the winning bidder will probably do his homework later, especially if he plans to return it to a more original condition. Then he will realize that he paid too much for that car. I would take many of the cars on HybridZ before wasting my $$ on the alleged #153. I'll take an original 240z over all of them anyway, which is why I have one.

    I appreciate all the work you all have done on this forum. I am on here regularly, but have much more to take away from it that I have to add.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    The question is, "was it ever a Scarab?".

    The blue Z on E-bay is presented as being a two owner car - were you the first or second owner? I'm wondering why you believe it is a Scarab - when so many things say it is not.

    FWIW,

    Carl B.

    Carl,

    I was not the first or second owner of the blue car. I am the third owner of #154. I do not have the original paperwork for the car however the second owner lives down the street from me, brought the car to Arkansas from California. He bought the car from the original owner after it was stored for several years.

    The blue 153, was it an original Scarab? Well according to Craig Sparks who is the most knowledgeable resource that I know of on the Scarab cars says yes. Then WHY are there 2 cars #153? That is the question. Craig has always told me there were 2 cars with the number 153, I’ve know this all along.

    What says it IS a Scarab.

    Let’s dissect the car on eBay.

    Exterior

    Louvered hood and inspection lids

    BBS 3 piece wheels

    Correct mirrors

    Blacked out trim

    Scarab emblems on sail panel (only available from the factory)

    3 piece rear spoiler

    Scarab lettering on lower fenders and rear spoiler

    Interior

    Recaro seats

    Tuck and roll door panels

    Momo steering wheel

    EGT/Boost gauge

    Glove box door emblem

    Door jamb data plate

    I’d love to see under the carpet because Scarab put a LOT of sound deadening in their cars.

    Now an important piece if you look at the under car pics, the one labeled FLOORS, look at the rear differential, there a piece of C shaped metal holding the differential nose down. Now if this is a “knock off” car, somebody went to great lengths to duplicate a factory car but screwed up when they gave it SN 153.

    I’m sticking by my guns on this one calling it real, as does Craig, he has educated me on these cars quite a bit. How knowledgeable is Craig? Last month my clutch slave went out, I called and asked him what part I needed. He spouts off “The slave you need is for a 1974 Datsun B210 with a 4 speed, don’t get the one for an automatic because the bleeder is on the bottom you need the one from a 4 speed.” I was impressed.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now
    Sign in to follow this