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kats

Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432

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2 hours ago, kats said:

I would like to share this , 

Dr. Nakagawa , a former executive of Prince motor company . He was joined Nakajima aircraft company and was an engineer of engines for fighter aircraft during WW2 , he refreshed “Sakae” engine for Zero fighter, also he was a chief engineer of  designing “ Homare “ engine for Shiden- Kai . 

After the war , he made cars and engines with a lot of engineers who used to make military aircraft and engines at Prince motor company.

Dr. Nakagawa had always highly admired engineers and craftsman who were never credited to the public , he said they were so genius. He said he designed with confidence, but sometimes he was corrected by craftsman of casting “need to change here and there ..”

Dr . Nakagawa said in his book , “ No matter how the design is perfect, we can’t have it without craftsman who make it real . “

I can see why S20 engine is different from others , this engine was born from and given aircraft spirits by those engineers.

 

Thank you for this Kats. I share your admiration for Nakagawa san and his colleagues. The father of one of our family friends worked with Nakagawa san at Nakajima Hikoki, working on those Sakae and Homare aero engines, and I was lucky enough to meet him and talk to him about his working life. Fascinating.

Here's a photo of Nakagawa san and some of his senior engineering staff from Prince Motor Co. pictured at Fuji Speedway in the early 1960s. A slightly unlikely looking group perhaps, but some serious talent here. Nakagawa san is in the dark suit. That's Dr Shinichiro Sakurai - a key figure for both Prince and Nissan - on the far right:

Nakagawa-lineup-01.jpg

   

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5 hours ago, kats said:

I would like to show this , my NOS S20 head compared to my used spare one.

I found the used spare one had had the hand work in the past , you can see  the surface is trimmed , and grinded smoothly . NOS one looked completely different. As I have heard this used one came from 432-R , so I guess previous owner had put some work into this engine . However, it is a subtle work !

 

I have looked at a lot of S20 engines over the years now, and I don't think I have ever seen a head casting in-use that had not received some detailing/'blueprinting' attention inside the port castings. I believe your NOS head is untouched in the ports because it never reached the stage where it was prepped before fitting to a working engine.

I'm pretty sure that the S20 engine in my 432-R replica (itself a very early 432-type S20 engine) was never taken apart until I stripped it to rebuild it. Both the inlet and exhaust port areas had been hand finished, with the dividing wall between the valves 'knife-edged'. Not the best photo, but you get the idea:

S20 port-08.jpg

Here's another K3 head:

K3 ports 45.jpg 

And for comparison, a super rare works race K3R head:

K3R ports-11.jpg 

Edited by HS30-H
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Alan, thank you for the comment , I am so glad that you like this topic and also you have experiences that talking with one of the engineers.

When I see you next time , I am really looking forward to hearing anything of Nakagawa-san from you. I think to understand Nissan , I need to know Prince . In late 1960's Nissan merged Prince ,  Skyline and S20 (and some cars and engines ) came from Prince , and Prince engineers were allowed to take care of those work .  They (people and cars ) were different from that of Nissan in many ways .

Mr. Sakurai (far right of the picture whitch Alan posted) spoke many many interesting things in the past in the magazines , he always said

" Prince was a small company , we were all happy to build cars and engines. We were able to discuss , work , even some times we quarrelled  , but  everything was valuable .  From Boss to young men , we had good communication each other. "    

Thanks Blue too !

Kats  

Edited by kats
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Thanks Alan for the pictures of super rare heads , it is a little bit scary for me to seeing "knife edged " triming

as I think there are not much meat left around it. 

Looks like my Z432 has a hand finished port for each , pictures from March 2007 at the shop .

Kats

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Edited by kats
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When the car was under restoration, a few things were not correct like a water pump ( for GTR ) ,  an engine block ( must be silver ) and an oil filter was for non- cooler type . I had changed them as you know , and the parts which shown I attached pictures are going to be on my spare S20 .

And some of you may remember Mr. Takei , a chief engineer of developing Europe S30 team . He drove through Europe with his freshly rolled out Euro 240Z after finished his work , that was in April to September 1971 . After he returned, he reported to Dr . Nakagawa like this , “ Japanese automotive technology is far behind from which Europe has , I think 15 years behind “ 

Then Dr. Nakagawa said to him “ you go to Europe again and learn from them “ 

The picture was taken Luxembourg.

courtesy Nostalgic Hero extra edition No. 564 

Kats

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Edited by kats
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15 hours ago, kats said:

" Prince was a small company , we were all happy to build cars and engines. We were able to discuss , work , even some times we quarrelled  , but  everything was valuable .  From Boss to young men , we had good communication each other. "    

You can imagine the Prince engineers were a close knit group that worked well together, when the merger happened with a much larger company, there would have been far less freedoms and more bureaucratic squabbling etc.. Big companies are often overly process heavy, compared with the freedom's they probably enjoyed at Prince they were able to be very agile (that business word) and innovative within the group.

Just looking at the differences in the S20 and L-series motor. It's clear 1 was made for profit, 1 was made for love. 😄 

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Thanks Gavin ,you said just I wanted to say . I really feel big companies are sometimes stressful for both ,  customers and employees . Yes very slow , even to answer just one question ...

I really love both , a lot of trophies were brought by L-series engines from overseas (of cource in Japan too ) , and by S20 engines in Japan. I am so proud of myself being a S30 nut.  

Kats

Edited by kats

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On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 8:37 AM, kats said:

I would like to share this , 

Dr. Nakagawa , a former executive of Prince motor company . He was joined Nakajima aircraft company and was an engineer of engines for fighter aircraft during WW2 , he refreshed “Sakae” engine for Zero fighter, also he was a chief engineer of  designing “ Homare “ engine for Shiden- Kai . 

Kats

 

Not much left in the world I believe of the Nakajima Sakae engine ? They are very rare, also the information about them is limited.

I find these WW2 engine technology very interesting. The German DB605 is also very ahead of it's time back in the day with fuel injection...

Interesting engines...

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30 minutes ago, bartsscooterservice said:

Not much left in the world I believe of the Nakajima Sakae engine ? They are very rare, also the information about them is limited.

 

I heartily recommend 'Japanese Aero-Engines 1910-1945' by Mike Goodwin and Peter Starkings, published by MMP Books, as the best English language reference book on the subject.

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21 hours ago, HS30-H said:

I heartily recommend 'Japanese Aero-Engines 1910-1945' by Mike Goodwin and Peter Starkings, published by MMP Books, as the best English language reference book on the subject.

Thanks !!

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Hi , I have got a set of high compression pistons and , titanium conn rods . They are meant to be used in a racing car ( GTR or Z432-R),  factory team or private racer . I try not to expect too much , but I think  these parts in front of me are real period correct parts which related to either Nissan Murayama , Oppama , Omori racing factory. From early 1969 to mid 1972 , those factories were very busy every day for developing racing S20 engines . Engineers and craftsman tried so hard making new cams , pistons , etc , testing them , and installing them in racing cars .Even heads as well as blocks , almost each race has new parts . Some parts were the same which were sold as sports option in a catalog , but many of them were not listed in a catalog , factory or some private racer only . 

This titanium Conn rod is the one , not on a catalog but used in racing. This piston is the same , looks slightly different from others .

Alan , could you authenticate these parts ? And please tell us more about racing back in those old days. 

The titanium conn rod is 474 gram , the std conn rod is 710 gram , I have heard titanium is lighter than steel , it is about 2/3 . So , looks like I have got a correct one !

Kats

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A set of parts , and Z432-R racing manual. It is said that STD pistons are casting made , on the other hand racing pistons are forging made .

Even this page doesn’t mention about titanium conn rods , it is the sign of “ titanium conn rods are specifically made for factory racing “ isn’t it ?

Kats

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Edited by kats
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I am waiting for getting a set of racing cam “8L “ and adjustable cam sprockets which were also used in racing cars from my friend . 

I won’t be able to come by titanium valves , special springs etc , so looks like I am done , I am satisfied at this moment.

I just hope my spare engine project going well , I don’t race , I will be happy if the engine is just running. 

I set the goal , build the spare S20 engine like someone who race but not enough money to buy complete set of racing parts . I will tell you later my feelings when I run the engine. Partial racing parts installed ! 

Kats

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13 hours ago, kats said:

I try not to expect too much , but I think  these parts in front of me are real period correct parts which related to either Nissan Murayama , Oppama , Omori racing factory.

Alan , could you authenticate these parts ? And please tell us more about racing back in those old days. 

 

You got them! Well done!

I think it is most likely that they are indeed genuine Murayama factory works team parts, never intended to be sold to the general public. Original cost of production would have been very high, but not a problem for a works team.

Compression ratio might be a problem for a street car. They are very high intrusion crown pistons and compression ratio would have been very high on the works cars. You will need to work it out with a dummy build.

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Alan , thanks for telling me the point , the compression ratio is the matter .

I think the spare head will definitely need to be shaved 0.5 or 1.0 mm , as I don’t want the head to have any things that make it higher compression ratio , I need to think about a thicker  head gasket ? Or enlarged combustion chamber ?

The Z432-R racing manual is saying “ the compression ratio will be 10.1 to 10.3 when using a racing pistons. You will have little more extra power if you make the compression ratio exceeding 11.0 .  However , with regarding fuel , 100 octane currently used , it is safe for the engine keeping the ratio within 11.5 “ 

BTW , STD piston’s ratio is 9.5 with a STD 1.2 mm head gasket.

And , I am worried about the valves may hit the high intrusion crown pistons . 

And I have read about an article which says titanium is expanding when heated , so does the conn rod have to have bigger gap for the bearings as well as bushing on top ? 

Kats

 

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On 6/6/2018 at 7:40 AM, 240260280 said:

 

Thanks for the high resolution!  Here is another find.  The inlet on the fuel pump is on the front and outlet is inboard.

Also the exit hose the pump is light colour.

I'll dig some more 🙂

EarlyZ Fuel on Right.jpg

 

 

@kats@mikeb@26th-Z@HS30-H

 

~aug-sept 1969 had different fuel pump fittings

(source: L24 engine manual)

image.png

 

~aug-sept 69 had different fuel rail: send and return connected at dual port banjo rather than in rail.

(source:engine manual)

 

image.png  image.png

 

 

 

Edited by 240260280
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Thanks Blue , nice findings. I might be curious if the car used in the service manual would be HLS30-00013 . A lot earlier car could be used for the manual , couldn’t it be ? 

Kats

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19 minutes ago, kats said:

Thanks Blue , nice findings. I might be curious if the car used in the service manual would be HLS30-00013 . A lot earlier car could be used for the manual , couldn’t it be ? 

Kats

I agree. A lot of lead-time needed for the production of the manuals and literature on these cars, and I see a few Skyline, Cedric, Gloria, Laurel and assorted 4-cylinder type parts used on the (likely pre-production/not to be sold) cars and details in the photos. Not surprising.  

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I agree,  I think the car in the service manual was HLS30-00001, 2 , 3 or an earlier pre-production chassis. (#4 &#5 were the test cars sent to North America in early Oct 1969)   Photos of HLS30-00013 did not have these unique parts shown in the service manual. It is still fun finding these small changes 🙂

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Thanks Alan , Blue.

Last week I took my blue 240Z for a drive to Tokyo , to have its seats refreshed by the craftsman Mr. Sudo . As I told it here before , the blue seats were restored by him in 2003 . This time I want the seats look just like new again with replacing worn out pieces .  Mr. Sudo is going to replace vinyl pices only where worn out , this is my request . He gave me the extra vinyl when he did the blue seats , but the vinyl is not enough for making a set of whole seats . Also I don’t think they need to be replaced whole thing as they are almost perfect in most of part . 

The seats were finished in later “ slim seat back “ style ,  I have been dreaming about having early “ fat seat back “ style in this blue vinyl. 

This time Mr. Sudo is modifying them to fat seat back style using minimal amount of the vinyl,  I am really excited about it , I can’t wait to see it when he completes the re-upholstery. 

Here are some pictures in progress.

I will be able to show you the seats done in the end of this April.

Kats

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Hi , I couldn’t stop myself posting this, 

here is a quiz , what kind of material is this ? And what is it for ? Mr. Sudo has this , it is unbelievable.

Kats

B314FF7C-F4B6-468B-8389-342A74C3A036.jpeg

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