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rear disc brake conversion?

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#1
73skyline

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is there anyway i can convert my drum on the rear to disc brakes. any special adaptors or donor parts i can get from other cars to make it work possible 280z cars? thanks

mikey

#2
redneckz II

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:D Yes, there are a few ways to go. You can do a search and find info on it on this site. Or go to HybridZ.org and do a search there for a lot of info and sites to go to. The most common is the 240SX conversion. The other is a 280ZX conversion. The last one is the custom kits conversions (big bucks). It all depends on how much money you have to spend and or time on hand to look for parts. All, will help the Z car come to a better stop. But don't forget to do the fronts also. They have every thing from better calibers for the solid disc setup to the easy 300ZX conversion. You can also go with the custom kits (so far up to 13" disc). So how and what you go to is up to you and your money. The 240SX is a special mounting plate conversion that they sell on the net. You have to find the rest in the auto yards. Not to hard to do, if you have the skill and time to do. The 300ZX conversion is a flat plate mount (this is the one I have on my Z). You can make the plate with limited skill. All the rest of the stuff you can find in the auto yards. I can help you if you go this way. There are a few sites that sell the custom kits. You can find most of them on the HybridZ site. If you need any more questions answered after doing your search feel free to ask. Good Luck, Rich. LOL

#3
waynekarnes

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you can try it on your own gathering the parts below

that info is from Mike ...

you can but Ross' product ( people over at hybird.org use em and love em )

msa sells a partial kit ...

i also included links for you ...

i researched this ...

as far as stopping power ...

get the nismo green shoes, and a set of iron drums ... supposedly the iron absorbs and disappaited the heat better than the aluminum.

remember, the majority of your stopping is done with the front brakes ...

before adding rear discs ... upgrade the front ... get the kit that uses the vented 300zx rotors and the larger toyota calipers ...

if too much or not in the budget, use the 84 to 87 ? four runner or 4x4 toyota truck calipers ... after trimming the dust backing plates, and bending the S brake lines just a bit ... they are a bolt on. replaces the stock datsun single piston, does a better job of clamping. of course, while better than the stock set up, the vented rotor set up is the way to go.

returning to the rear discs ... you can get by with the stock master, but many like to upgrade to the 280zx master. also, depending on the year 240 you have, watch the brake lines at the master ... nissan changed the positions of front, rear. if you stay with the stock master ... remove the check valve in the master, going to the rear lines. you may or may not need a proportioning valve. i've been told by end users, some used the one already there ( rear on pre 73 ), or had no luck with that and used the zx valve. others used a wilwood. i have been told that the one on the 73 240 at the distribution block under the master, should not be used. on the pre 73 z cars, they are at the rear, near the axle under the car body.


again, other than the coolness factor, ease of mechanics, unless going to a hugh rotor and caliper set up, as far as stopping, under normal driving and most racing situation, there is no reason for rear discs on a 240z.

that said, i have a rear disc brake kit in my garage waiting to be installed ... i know i don't need em ... even with the 350 chevy V8 under the hood, the green shoes work fine ... but, they look cool and i want em. plus, no more messing with that parking brake issue i've been having ...





Big rear brake conversion

240sx 4 x 4 1/2 lugs
79-81 280zx master 15/16
89-98 240sx calipers and hangers
84-85 300zx rear rotors 4x4 1/2 lug pattern

86-80 FWD maxima rear dust shields and hub brackets both bored, cut and welded with correct offset.

rear axles must be removed to install brackets

make brake cable extenders

Small rear brake conversion

79-81 280zx master 15/16
82-53 280zx rear calipers and hangers
82-83 280zx rear rotors
86-89 FWD maxima rear dust shields and hub brackets ... cut and welded with correct off set
OR 80-84 nissan 810, maxima sedan rear brackets that have floating dust shield

rear axle must be removed to install bracket

Big rear brake conversion 280zx

79-81 280zx master 15/16
82-83 280zx calipers and hangers
84-85 300zx rear rotors 4 x 4 1/2 lugs
86-89 FWD maxima rear dust shields and hub brackets ... bored cut and welded with correct off set

bone stock small rear brake conversion Maxima 4x4 1/2 lugs

79-81 280zx master 15/16
79-81 280zx rear calipers and hangers
79-81 280zx rotors 4x4 1/2 lugs
80-84 810, maxima sedan rear brackets that have screw on dust shields

rear axles must be pulled on all to install brackets

http://www.cardomain...mberpage/496289

To remove the rear axles take the car to a qualified mechanic with the tools and equipment to do the job right. For the rest of you who want to do this in your garage on the weekend do this.

Get your tools together: first get a 36" long 1" I.D. 1 5/16 O.D. sch 40 pipe and then get some flat stock steel 1"X1/2"X36" drill two 12.5mm holes or 1/2" (it doesn't have to be a precision bore) spaced 4 1/2" center to center or 3 1/4". Then buy thread lock, a 3/4" breaker bar and 1 1/16" socket, 1/2" center punch and 40 oz. hand driver. Next a tire bar 21mm or 13/16" and two 14mm combo wrenches. You should have needle nose pliers plus and minus screw sticks and other common tools. Most important, a service manual like Hayes or Chilton for general information.

Set the e-brake and jack the car and support it safely then remove the tires. Disengage the e-brake and remove the four half shaft bolts from the hub, removal of the four bolts from the third member is not required but is recommended for ease of accessibility. They are a shoulder bolt 14mm on both ends. Then the axle nut will be visible looking from the third member towards the wheel hub. (It is best to remove the A arm with strut tower and take it to a qualified machinist and have him remove the nut.) Bolt the flat stock to the hub using the wheel huts and brace it against the car or the ground. Put the breaker bar with pipe and socket on the nut. Send the children to the neighbors house, their ears will be the better for it and now rotate the nut, or at least...try. The nut is crimped on so this can be tough sometimes and this is where most possible damage can occur. Once the nut is removed the half shaft flange should slide off, some don't, but don't worry it will. (It is!
better to remove the A arm and strut tower, take it to a qualified machinist and press the axle out.) Chilton recommends using a slide hammer and center hub puller. I use the center punch and place it in the dimple of the shaft and with the hand driver strike the punch with firm square blows. *DO NOT DAMAGE THE THREADS!!!* Glancing blows may cause damage here and a lot of hassle. The axle will take a few good blows but it will start to move. There is a whole pile of goodies to loose like two seals, two bearings and a center spacer inside the hub so be careful and don't loose any of it. Now is a good time to replace bearings and seals with new ones, if you decide not to replace old parts now you may be doing this axle removal thing again in a few months.

On reassemble it is best to use new nuts, but if you use the old ones run a die or rethread tool through it, and on the axle shaft can't hurt either. Use the red thread lock on the nut to ensure it doesn't back off and make sure you tighten the hell out of it! I torque on the high side of the recommended 181-239 ft. lb.. (actually I go to 250). First clean the shaft off the car with a good 4 inch hand grinder and a wire wheel or abrasive pad wheel to remove any bad areas on the shaft end. Next get a good rethread tool, M 20 X 1.50. I use one from my Snap-on set that I bought on-line RD-20. Next install the nut over the shaft and turn. I like to use tap-magic to help the tool glide over the threads. Unlike a die the rethread tool or thread restore tool will cram the remaining metal back into shape to help revitalize the old threads. If the metal will not conform back to shape the tool will remove it. A die will cut new threads in any metal that is there, their is a difference!
. This is only a fix to the issue of removing a nut that had not been properly prepared before de-installation. I am the worst person for not preparing the nut before removal.

Hope this helps.
Mike

http://mywebpages.co...zxreardiscs.htm

http://www.zcarcreat...o/rearbrake.htm

one of the nicest Z car ever ... http://alteredz.com/

http://www.zcarparts...talog/c484.html

http://www.modern-mo...log/default.php

good luck, remember ... it's your z ... there are plenty of museum pieces out there ... do what you want with yours ... keep it bone stock as the factory built it ... or safely improve performance, be it handling, acceleration, deceleration, comfort, or the way it looks, as long as enjoy it ... no sense in owning anything you don't enjoy !!!

wayne
it's getting better, so much better all the time ! it can't get much worse

#4
Dreco

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I have the rear kit from Ross at Modern-Motorsport, and absolutley love it. Easy to install. Do however get the adjustable proportioning valve.

#5
The C110

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Jeez you guys are damn helpful! - All that info should allow him to set it up in no time - except for one thing - He drives a '73 khgc110 - or a 4th generation Skyline if you will - it shares many parts with the Z, however, there are many things that are markedly different; so, my advice, mikey, is to follow this info as best you can while also checking for compromises you may have to make. PM 240k&beyond [Bruce] as hes doing a rear disc conversion for his c110 probably as i speak. Check out his gallery if you want, hes using oz spec hr30 skyline rear discs - not sure if the US got that model. In any case hes probably the best man to ask. Hope you can work something out. Regards,

Tom
HGC110-008484 - Why didnt they just badge them as Skylines in Oz!?

#6
240K&Beyond

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Ah Yeah Mike, Tom is right.
Your 240K offset's are completely different to 240Z/260Z/280ZX Systems. There is a CAD design in my gallery for the conversion plate required to use R30 (1981 to 1985) Skyline Rear Disk Rotors and Calipers.
I am trying to get them made over the Xmas Holidays to test the design, however, a freind has already used it successfully.
Once the Done and Tested, I shall Post the Question to members: Who Wants a Pair of Conversion Plates? So that we can have them made in bulk as several people have already expressed inerest. (I have a second Car to do too.)
But, by all means use the design, thats what it is there for.

Cheers,

Bruce.
Bruce
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001866 (The Good) (Yellow)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001731 (The Bad ) (Blue)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001407 (The Ugly ) (Green)
1982-85 x3 R30 Skyline Hatches (The Bits Store)
1993 BNR32 GTR - Every January the 29th
2006 Turbo Territory Ghia - The Daily Driver

#7
Mr Camouflage

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Jeez you guys are damn helpful! - All that info should allow him to set it up in no time - except for one thing - He drives a '73 khgc110

Tom


LOL LOL LOL

which is why its in the 240K discussion forum
www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

#8
khughes

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Hi Guys,

Havn't quite done this yet, but i have most of the parts for it ready to go..

I grabbed a set of disks and calipers from an R31 Skyline (i think it was the GXE with the rear disks rather than the drums).

The way i am planning on doing it is cutting off the drum back plate (where the drum piston sits on), slip the R31 disk on (bolt patterns are the same, and it shouldn't rob too much thread from the bolts (for the wheel nuts).. I was then just going to weld a new caliper mount bracket onto the strut. Not quite sure how to rig up the handbrake yet, but it shouldn't be too far off how they do it for the 1600's

Have a search around, there was a website that showed the R31 rear brake conversion for the Datsun 1600..

Again, i havn't done this yet (and i am learning as i go), as when i do it i am going to do a 300zx front brake upgrade at the same time, that will require bigger wheels to fit them in).. Be sure to take some pics for us all!

oh you can remove the backplate by removing the wheel bearing etc, but i 'have no idea how that would come out.. so i am just going to cut it off :D

Kent
07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

#9
panchovisa

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khughes,
You will not be able to weld a new caliper bracket to the axel housing. The housing is ductil iron and is not weldable. It can be brazed, but I wouldn't trust brazing for critical application like brakes. Plus you would probably want to heat housing in oven before brazing, this would not be good for bearings (you didn't want to disassemble axel) and definately not good for silver solder joint where strut tube meets housing (will come apart).
Stick to bolt on caliper adapters.
If you want it done right then do it yourself.

#10
khughes

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aha! your right! i had forgotten about that!

some custom adaptors will need to be made though as far as i know there are no aftermarket ones for the 240k's (and i doubt the datsun 1600 ones will fit)

Kent
07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

#11
240K&Beyond

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Hi Fellas,
I have hd a bit of trouble getting someone to make these conversion plates up for me. There is considerable expense envolved when making mutliple units. The need to make a program up to cut it via a machine, rather that a once off hand made pair of plates.
Consequently, I have had a chat to my mate who has already made and completed his conversion. He is going to ask the bloke that made his: "How much would it cost to make 10 pairs of plates?" Hopefully this would be enough for all of us for now.
I will get back to you when I know the price per unit/car.

Kent: I you would like to PM me with the dimensions of the R31 rear disc rotors you have, then I can compare them to my R30 ones. If they are the same, then you could use a set of conversion plates too. Better measure the distance between the centres of the caliper bolt holes too.
Bruce
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001866 (The Good) (Yellow)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001731 (The Bad ) (Blue)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001407 (The Ugly ) (Green)
1982-85 x3 R30 Skyline Hatches (The Bits Store)
1993 BNR32 GTR - Every January the 29th
2006 Turbo Territory Ghia - The Daily Driver

#12
khughes

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will do, i will check them out on the weekend.. i will try and work out the offset measurements too (as they may also have changed)
07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

#13
440k

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Hey 240K&Beyond:

What material are you making your plates out of? You say that you have a set in use at the moment - is this road only, or road / race? Reason I ask is that I have a few concerns regarding the sharp internal corners. I was working on a design with chamfered / radiused internal corners wherever possible to minimise stress raisers.

Don't take this as a criticism of your work. It was good of you to make your design available to us. I was just looking at whether the design can be simply improved on (hey, if it saves me having to engineer my own, then it's a bonus).

I have a freind who's a gun machinist (as in he's good, not that he machines guns, or operates machine guns. Well actually, he DOES manufacture parts for rifles - but...aww forget it :tapemouth ), and has his own equipment at home. He offered to make mine up for me pretty cheap (usual payment of beer / red wine plus materials). He might be interested in making up a few of these.

#14
240K&Beyond

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Hi 440K,
As far as I know, the plates in use are roadworthy - they passed. You are right. Over the last couple of weeks, reviewing the CAD drawing I was given with Engineers quoting to make them, there is a discrepancy around the "hard" corners.
I chatted to the bloke who had them made and he has informed me that this is because the guy that made them for him used a machine that puts a 3mm radius on these edges, hence he did not put it on the drawing.
So yes, it is a good idea, and yes, they are made like that.

If you want to ask your "Gun", for sure !!! I am guessing that we will need around 10 pairs all up, first run, with all the interest shown. (I need two pairs myself.) If your fella can design a program to make them on an automated machine, this would probably be the easiest and cheapest way.
It needs to be made from 20/22mm plate mild steel with a minimum grade of 200, but 250 is prefered and used in the already construded units.

As soon as I hear back from the guy, I shall let everyone know. I was planning to make one set to "test" their construction, but if I use this guy who has already made them before, then I was planning to have them bulk built.
Bruce
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001866 (The Good) (Yellow)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001731 (The Bad ) (Blue)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001407 (The Ugly ) (Green)
1982-85 x3 R30 Skyline Hatches (The Bits Store)
1993 BNR32 GTR - Every January the 29th
2006 Turbo Territory Ghia - The Daily Driver

#15
Mr Camouflage

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I have a freind who's a gun machinist (as in he's good, not that he machines guns, or operates machine guns. Well actually, he DOES manufacture parts for rifles - but...aww forget it :tapemouth )


ROFL ROFL ROFL
www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

#16
khughes

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Hi Bruce,

measured up the R31 pintara brakes, the bolt holes are 8mm wide, the distance from the outsides of the 2 mounting bolt holes are 105mm..

so that would make bolt centre to bolt centre 97mm (which doesn't seem to match up to your diagram :()

i am pretty sure they are a 260mm rotor, with 60mm height (according to the dba database)
07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

#17
240K&Beyond

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Hey Kent,
According to my plans for the conversion plate (As shown in the gallery) the R30 conversion plate adaptors holes are 114mm apart. (Centre to centre). Damn ! What about the dimensions of the actual disk rotor?

I have measured my R30 rear hatch rotors that suite my conversion plate diagram and they are as follows:

1) When placing the rotor flat on the desk with the wheel stud bolt holes up and the actual brake surface on the desk: the distance from the top surface down the side to the topside of the braking surface is 37mm.

2) The diameter of the top surface where the wheel stud bolt holes are is 170mm.

3) After flipping the rotor over so that it rests on the blot holes: The diameter distance ove the visable hole in the middle where the axle goes is 151mm

4) The distance from the edge of this "hole" to the outer edge of the rotor braking surface is 51mm.

5) Finally the actual width of the rotor (from one braking surface to another) is 10mm. The minimum spec is 9mm.

How does this compare to yours? If the offsets are the same and the length (51mm) of the rotor is the same: You may be able to adapt my design to suit your rotors.

Else, you may wish to consider a R30 modification instead of a R31.
Bruce
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001866 (The Good) (Yellow)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001731 (The Bad ) (Blue)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001407 (The Ugly ) (Green)
1982-85 x3 R30 Skyline Hatches (The Bits Store)
1993 BNR32 GTR - Every January the 29th
2006 Turbo Territory Ghia - The Daily Driver

#18
240K&Beyond

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I have just checked in with my mate that has already had a set of plates made. He has been trying to contact the original manufacturer of the plate. This guy has been on holidays and as such, my mate is going to try him again this week.

Hopefully I will have an answer by next week end.
Bruce
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001866 (The Good) (Yellow)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001731 (The Bad ) (Blue)
1973 240K GL - KHGC110001407 (The Ugly ) (Green)
1982-85 x3 R30 Skyline Hatches (The Bits Store)
1993 BNR32 GTR - Every January the 29th
2006 Turbo Territory Ghia - The Daily Driver

#19
73skyline

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i was just curious, i read in the beginning of the thread that the 240z,280z has a different offset than the 240K when it comes to brakes....well if i were to buy the disc brake adaptors for a 240z/280z would i be able compensate for the different offset by adding or subtracting metal from the adaptor to make it work with my car? the adaptors you are making to fit r30/r31 brakes it may be hard for my to get rotors/calipers for i live in the states and we dont have DR30 skylines here. so i was thinking of buying a pair of Datsun 240z rear disc brake adaptors and modifying them to work with my 240K. would it be a waste of my time doing this or do you guys think it might work. i can weld, drill or lathe the adaptors if i have to but just wondering if it would be to much work and not worth doing. i was thiking of the disc brake adaptors to work with 240sx calipers.

heres the link of the adaptors i might try to modify to fit the 240K

http://www.modern-mo...p?products_id=8

thanks

mikey

#20
sss1600

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any news on the calliper brackets?
Price? etc...




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