26th-Z

We will miss you, kats.

Will, You forgot to mention the most beautiful Zs. Her Majesty the 26th is very greatful as she doesn't want to sit around in no museum.

It was used on domestic models - not 'hardly' at all. The intention is not obvious. I'll grant you, doradox, an interesting point; homologation. But then, if Datsun (brought to you by Nissan) intended to build the S30 just for the Americans, why did they go to all the trouble to homologate the S20? BRE didn't use the S20. Neither did BSR. I'm not using that particular example as "proof". It's just one example of many. But back to HLS30-00013. There's nothing really all that special about it any more than any of the first 100 cars. It has a better pedegree than, say, Her Majesty the 26th but so what. Just another low-vin conversation piece. It would be great to see 13th restored and in a museum. It would be great to see 16th or 17th restored. It will be really great to see 26th restored!

My post was not deleted because I was off topic. I responded to incorrect information, presented my evidence, and was told that I couldn't possibly be correct because it didn't agree with what their guru was saying. The stripped down HLS30 came to America without carpeting, rear window defroster, parking lights, headlight covers, 5-speed transmission, aerodynamic devices, 8-track player, road emergency kit to name but a few items standard on the Fairlady ZL. Carpeting was originally dealer installed (thank you MikeB for that info) even though it is listed on the bill of sale. Now think about this...the S20 engine makes approximately the same horse power as the L24. Why wasn't it used for the export models? Well... it doesn't meet emission standards and offer the same HP as the L24 which does. So why wasn't the L24 used for racing? Because of the 2 liter classification. Alan my have some comments on this, but the fact that the various engines WERE used and the chassis designed to accomodate all three engines does NOT support the idea that the 240Z was designed specifically for American consumption. Look at this in terms of what an American can buy at the Nissan dealer today. Several different versions of various trim and performance packages on the basic model - track version, touring version, etc.

I was also the victim of thread deletion and lost the desire to contribute to the conversation on ctzcc. The thread is rife with incorrect information, opinion, and favors a discussion that is simply naive and short sighted. Fine. Let them believe what they want to. They obviously don't have a clue. I'm really tired of it all. Alan, I feel for you. As far as I can determine, 13th was totaled when it mounted a telephone pole and ended up in a junk yard before being rescued and reconstructed with a new radiator cross member. Nothing has been said about frame rail damage, but the bonnet is not an early one; obviously replaced in spite of what was said on ctzcc. I also read that the head had been replaced at one point. My recomendation is go to the site for the pictures and ignore the conversation for any historical value.

Photos of course! I don't know if I will be able to upload from the convention. I'll try. CW-

Wouldn't miss it. See you in San Antonio!

Sounds like the annual meeting will be good!

Thanks Alan. I think Mike McGinnis has one of these as I recall.

The Japanese drive on the left hand side of the road. Japanese cars are right hand drive. Kiwi, I DO know a lot about the S30 design history and I think the S30 was NOT marketed to a specific country. I think that the developing U.S. market under the leadership of Yutaka Katayama was a heavy influence but I don't believe that any direct influence from the U.S. market came until very late in the design program, perhaps begining in late 1967. I think the issue is increadibly obvious; the car was engineered for both left and right hand drive, it accomodates components for racing purposes, it accomodates three different engines, and all the Americans got was one version. And a stripped down version at that! The S30 design was heavily engineered and arguably the pinnacle of what Nissan technology had to offer at the time. I don't know why the argument even exists.

Yes, that looks to be a factory document of some sort. You might want to have it restored. There are people who restore paper - art prints, posters -they would be able to help you.

Turn up the volume...http://vimeo.com/6371713

The 3.9 final gear was standard for the F5C71A-5 five speed. We got the 3.364 final gear with the F4W71A-4. There are several final gear sizes in the competition catalogs however they are all listed as limited slip. This site may be of help http://www.geocities.com/z_design_studio/ But generally I agree with Arne, a 4.3 is dang low for street use.

Ron Carter! You mean to tell me that your tail light lenses aren't correct?!!?!!! There goes the neighborhood! My DelPrado model by Shin Yoshikawa has yellow lenses however the pictures from the booklet seem to be all red lenses. I wondered about that.

Mikunis are "correct" in a Datsun! Mikunis are Japanese carburetors, Webers are Italian. Don't put Italian carburetors in your Japanese rocket!

Learn someth'n new every day...

My first thought is that you are lucky to find a white interior kit. Does MSA have the kits in white? How about Eiji at Datsun Spirit? White should look real pretty. I have not used any Black Dragon kits but I'm willing to bet that they are the same kits made from the same company dating back to 1996. The same kits everyone has. They install just fine.

Keith, Where are you in Florida? You must know Van McDonald? Chris

Ahh, you noticed. I don't know where the repro came from. Perhaps the later 'OK' stickers were made that way. Congrats on actually owning an original, though. That's cool. A couple of years ago, at a national convention in Dallas, Masataka Usami gave these out as gifts.

Oh! I didn't see that you posted that picture, Alan. Great picture! Love the 'mod-paisley' blouse! I think that image corresponds to the film I have describing the computer modeling for chassis flex analysis. When the program was run, that picture flexed according to the various loads placed on the chassis to show the chassis stress points and where the metal deflected. Now I have to go back to the film and see if I can find the paisley blouse! I have been meaning to get back to this thread to discuss the significance of the press release. One of my dryer interests with respect to my collection of Zs has to do with understanding the industrial environment in Japan during the time of the Z. Dan Banks got me into a book; "William R. Gorham; An American Engineer in Japan" which discusses the industrialization of Japan prior to the war and some of the rebuilding after. By the time the S30 project began in the middle '60s Japan had fully industrialized and was competing heavily on the world market. Japan had returned from the ashes of war to an established society with a growing economy. Within the story of the Geortz / Nissan involvement lie clues to how quickly the Japanese car industry was stepping up to world competitive class. By the time the S30 was committed to development, we see an independent society interacting with the rest of western industrialized societies. I think the press release carries that tone of Japanese identity and individuality. "...Japanese car buyers want that kind of look." “The Japanese customer has become so sophisticated…”. “We’re building cars now for the world”. And perhaps a touch of arrogance; “If a new model is acceptable in Japan, it is acceptable in America as well.” I also enjoy the western perspective of the press release author, Dunn/Cheyne Public relations. It seems some sort of validity was added to the designers’ statements with a short resume describing American educational background and experience. I think this is very telling of the westernized perspective of the S30 design even though the S30 is not mentioned in this press release. However, a couple of theories supportive of the westernized S30 perspective seem to get dispelled. “The size of people simply isn’t a factor any longer.” So much for the idea that the roomy S30 was designed for the six foot American. Of significance is the discussion about the size of the cars indicating the preference of the Japanese, not export markets. However, it is described with a total 1969 American word ‘capsulizing”. What a hoot. And my favorite coined phrase from Yotsumoto san; “industrial design inducement” when asked about American legislation concerning safety and emission standards.

There! That's perfect. That statement right there puts all of the sales figure retoric in context. It puts Alan's message in context. It is the most telling statement in this thread. Why is HLS30-00013 so important? Why was HLS30-00016 so important? Why is the theory that the 240Z was made for America so important? Why all of this bantering? Because of that statement. I suggest we look at the 'world car' image that Alan presents with respect to a simple time line. The sales figures did not exist when the S30 was designed and its world-wide distribution planned. All one has to do is look at the way the car was designed to accomodate so many different varieties of construction to understand the 'world car' view. The sales figures happened later for the reason quoted above. They are irrelevant. The S30 was designed for the L20A engine, the L24 engine, the S20 engine, right-hand drive, left-hand drive, manual and automatic transmissions, and a list of various options. The 240Zs we drive in America are only one variant of what was available. Hate to say this, but the 240Z was not designed for just America. Sure turned out that way, but it didn't start out that way. I have no doubt that Yutaka Katayama saw the potential and influenced the design, but I'm convinced that the design he influenced was the particular variant we got in America. Please go to the thread Mike posted about the press release and consider the impact of what we normally hear and discuss about the early Zs. I have said this to both Mike and Alan privately; that press release shatters the current thought and is at least equally important to actually finding HLS30-00013 in the metal.

To be exact; "rescued from a Garner, NC salvage yard in the mid 70's, put back in running condition, and sold to a collector after 2 years". The VIN numbers were 5 digits - yes. For example, the exact VIN for Her Majesty the 26th is HLS30U-00026

I don't know how much my cars are worth! I don't want to sell them. I bought Her Majesty from the estate of a friend knowing two things; I like 240Zs (1) and (2) the first 100 examples of any successful automobile model like the 240Z are desireable. And, in recognition to what Alan points out, the first 100 examples of the HLS30U or UN. I know; Carl says the first 500...Ok, Ok. Frankly, the low VIN thing is simply a fun conversation item. So, if I had to pick a number out of the air based on what I see stuff selling for? I'ld say low 30s to 50k. Maybe higher depending on this, that, and a few other things.

I'm glad you brought the subject up, Alan, because I did not want to respond to the blurb posted on the Connecticut club site with the impolite negativity it deserves. What is it I heard? "In the time it took Frank to write that garb, he could have just filled us in on a few satisfying facts". Instead we hear about a car that was NOT sold to the public on 22 October 1969 as we all know and isn't-even-the-original-color "pristine". Frank has some of his facts mixed up, evidently. But, of course he would have forgotton about the Japanese models or the other export models. Ya-know Connecticut is Ivy League territory. But HLS30-00013 doesn't need another car to validate it, does it? Horray for Frank's enthusiasm, though. And horray to the guy who owns a car similar (but not as exquisite) as her Majesty the 26th! Horray for all the 'lowVIN' guys for we have found another member! How much is it worth? As much as someone wants to spend. HLS30-00017 is for sale. No one wants to pay what the owner wants so it sits in storage. Is it worth it?

Oh yea, my bad, it wasn't you who said they ran sand through the engine. Of course one could spend money on an old BMW or, on the other hand, one could enjoy the luxury, dependabilty, economy, and pristine quality BMW has to offer. I read a blurb about the business that supplies the sodium silicate. They're making a fortune from this program from what I read. The solution turns to glass under the heat of running the engine and glazes the entire inside of the engine blocking the oil passages and seizing the bearings. The result cannot be reversed.