26th-Z

Hey there Mark! Hello Eric! Glad to see more people into this thread. The "one-hour photo queen" came through for me again - bless her. In the days when film photography is getting as rare as 240Z parts! How's that for grammar? These are all photos from 26th-Z. Door tag stamped 11/69. I'm glad Mark posted his 11/69 tag to compare his serial number with. 27th-Z is stamped 10/69 and 26th seems to be out of place for some reason. Look what I found. I'll start with the gauges under Her Majesty's dash. The dash I had re-covered last year was a spare I bought and used to see if I liked the recovering deal that was going on at the time. 26th's dash is still in one piece - unmolested. The first picture is a stamping on the foam directly above the speedo and tach. It says 44. 10. 15

Bayak, Your question is really wide open and the basic answer would be that the US market cars were left-hand drive. Now, looking at your profile, I would imagine that you might be specifically asking about the 260 2+2 and 280ZX model. Most of these answers deal with the 240Z model, or HLS30U. Having said, I will leave it open to more refined answers from more refined experts.

My photographs (assuming they turn out well enough...I have my moments...film, you know) won't be back for another 24 hours. I was really surprised last night. Alan, I simply made the Ok statement to keep the conversation going. I recognize your point. I'll have much more to say when the photos come back from the "1-hour developers".

From the Datsun 260Z - 240Z USA and Canada Parts Catalog; December 1973. Your car is a 1972, perhaps titled as a 1973, but titles are irrelevant in my opinion. Check the data plate on your driver door jamb. Check the part labels on the wiring harness. The seat belt labels will also give you a date reference.

Or perhaps advanced carcheology...Photos on the way with a surprise or two for me. I just spent a couple of hours in the shop unpacking boxes and photgraphing dated parts. The other guages have date stamps also. Look for a date stamp on the dashboard foam directly above the speedo and tach. The dash for 26th-Z was made October 15, 1969, I think. I'll have lots of questions about the stamp. The wiring harness labels have red and blue marker dots on them. What does that mean? Does anyone have the stamps for the date markings? I made reproduction seat belt labels some time ago and just copied the 9/69 date from my originals. I found more material. Do you want blank labels for your seat belts, Kats? Does anyone else want repro 1969 seat belt labels?

Hi Kats! I forwarded this conversation to Jim and see if I can get him to join our discussion. Talking with him last night, he seems to recall odd dates from his cars. Now you make me work! I will take photographs of dated parts I have. 27th Z is in storage and not taken apart. I may try to find dates on her parts. Give me some time. I do not have a digital camera! Did I show you my new Datsun jacket? Here is me with the Kumo tire girls at Sebring last weekend.

Hey Zrush! You in on this conversation?

I'll add to your answer Alan. HLS30-00026 is door date stamped 11/69 and HLS30-00027 is door date stamped 10/69.

Hi Kats! You propose a good method to establish a build date. So many people have questions about model years and build dates! I searched the archives for "date stamp" and there are several conversations about individual part dates and the meaning of the markings. Is you picture the back of your speedometer? Chris

I heard the seller had problems with the title, but.... When I first met Jim, we thought his was the only automatic VZ, but I have three accounted for now. Carl Beck remarked to me this weekend that we may find more because the automatics may have been a type of car that was used less and garaged more making them easier to find in better condition. Pure speculation, but interesting to consider. I have ten cars photodocumented, Vicky. Two yellows. Yours is the only yellow in that flavor I know of.

Check this site out. http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903/ Kats is a member here and he deals with early car issues, but when it comes to nit-picky details, Kats is my hero. Get a Datsun parts book - one is sold here in CD form and pay close attention to the difference in part numbers and applications for your model. That will help. Otherwise have a good time and welcome aboard! Oh yes, make a good parts survey for your restoration plan and start buying parts as soon as you can. Good advice. It will save you $$$ in the long run.

The doors are going to look pretty funny with the window surround hanging off them. I spoke to Her Majesty about this issue some time ago and she advised that a proper 240-Z never has her doors hiked up in the air. (I think its a Fairlady thing)

Your reference is a Vintage Z. I think it will be expensive and a fine choice as a show car for someone's collection. Would really like to see this car in person.

I'm right there with ya, Stephen! I bought a $50 Triumph TR3 for a daily driver when I was 16. I walked a lot - bummed rides... It sounds like Scotty has about $5,500 to spend which is not a lot for something reliable. I will say this though, a 280Z would make a great starter car to learn on and tinker with.

Oh geez! I knew this was going to happen. I let my big fat fingers fall across the keyboard and now I'm in hot water. I'm caught on my normal perch; sitting on the fence watching passionate debate and admiring each presentation with the thought that we are getting far too anal. This is just like the good 'ol days in SCCA racing. We used to call it "bench racing". Carl, we are pretty much reading the same information. You want to know what I REALLY think? I think Nissan decided in the early '60s to look at exporting cars to compete in and increase it's automotive market share. I think Goertz was brought in for that reason - the Nissan design house began to broaden its focus - reflected in changes in hiring practices. For instance, Matsuo did not attend the design university Nissan historically hired from. I think that the initial concepts begun in the fall of 1965 were more in-house study than export oriented, but by the time the design studios converged in the fall of 1966, the project was export oriented. The S30 chassis is far too symetrical for me to believe that the Z was focused to one specific sales market. Too much effort has gone into the design of mirror image parts so as to economically produce quatities of either side drive. There may be a bias to right-hand drive, but that would be logical and there is hardly any evidence of it. The reverse image chassis design scheme is far too dominant. Actually, the S30 chassis tub is quite sophisticated for not only its structural rigidity, but the ability to economically produce any model version. Clearly, the Z car is export oriented to both left and right hand drive markets - which includes the home Japanese market. Now, bring in Katayama san. The success story of the Z car is clearly here in America and squarely in the lap of Mr. K. The bragging rights thing should be a nonsequitur and I wasn't involved in that statement. The vast majority of units were sold in America. There is no reason to belabor the point. I do not think Nissan had any idea the Z would be so popular, however. I think Mr. K and Matsuo san had high expectations and I am happy to see they were confident, but the guys back in Japan were clearly caught flat footed. They couldn't meet the demand for HLS30s. In the begining, there were six? build configurations of the S30. The S30, S30-S, HLS30, HS30, PS30, and PS30-SB. That doesn't indicate an American export focus to me. That indicates to me that I have two Japanese cars that were built to be exported to the United States. Now, it just so happens that the HLS30 comprises the vast majority of the six models built. I think Katayama had something to do with that more than luck. I also think that Katayama had something to do with the build specification for the HLS30. I find it in many ways unique compared to the other model build specifications and options. And this is what is going to bring me back to the topic! I think that in order to fully understand the American Datsun 240 Z, one must at least be cognizant of what was not exported to America. The Fairlady Z in question offers a unique opportunity to see a car we did not get. Its an early one, too! Cars out of market are always valuable in the collector world because we are striving for "unique" in our collections. So much for my thoughts and "bullshit". I don't want to hear any crappy remarks. Thats what I think and I am happy to sit here and watch the show. :knockedou

I wrote the seller but haven't heard anything back yet, Ben. This car is one of three I have documented automatic transmissions. Two of them are this color and one is 907 dark green. I believe this car as well as the dark green car were some of the first completed by Pierre and appeared at the May 3rd 1997 Vintage Z Rally. It is also quite possible that this car is pictured in the Z-Store brochure.

I enjoyed that. Thanks. I had missed it.

Will, You are technically correct about the zoning issue, but I think the business description is a stretch. Thats a low impact business. I do custom garages for clients all the time. Typically, my residential work involves four and six car garages incorporated with the house. I'm doing a house for a baseball player now, and the motor court provides comfortable spaces for twelve cars. It would be nothing to hire a mechanic to come in and work on his buddies' cars. I know mechanics with that kind of clientele. If you can afford to build it, you can afford to have someone come in and clean it. Some "garages" are built as entertainment rooms and the car is simply part of the art work. Some are grimey shops. Mine is a little of both with heavy emphasis on grimey shop.

This is great! We have bets going here! I'll bet over a grand. Do I win anything? Over on the IZCC site, bets are starting to come in on the Vintage Z on eBay. You guys are great! I didn't realise you needed pictures, Will. I didn't realise the trim rings came in two different finishes. Wonder what I have. Were there different part numbers for the different finishes? I saw a used set traded a few months ago for around $500. The new owner tells me that the lenses polished up very well. I hope to see that car at the national convention. I'm sure there will be cars fitted with the headlight covers at the MSA show. Mine will go on Her Majesty to support her bodacious scoops. I saw a set of ZG headlight covers on eBay in early summer 2003. If you search back, my thread should be in the archives. They were on for about three hours at "buy it now $200" IIRC.

Thanks. I recall a similar amount and will be pissed if they sell for less.

What does IIRC mean?

Eloquence fails me sometimes, Stephen. Nothing deragatory intended. I like the direction this conversation has taken. NovaSS deserves a big round of applause! AND probably a beer! Don't you think? The study of architectural history has been a similar experience for me. Trying to understand "origins and intentions" is very difficult. They are "moving targets" with respect to an evolution of design. The perception of one moment from the distance of another moment must be considered also. Take a look at the movies Kats posted of events in late 1969. Notice how different things appear to be from what you might expect to see today. Ask yourself how you might describe the events or write about them. I find myself in a very similar situation writing about the Vintage Z program. It is difficult to ascertain fact from the collective opinions of those involved.

Congratulations Stephan! You just got bullshitted! Took it hook line and sinker!

The letter Z is pronounced many different ways in different languages. For instance, German pronounces Z as "tsett". Z has meaning also and is used to symbolize "ultimate" and conveys the idea of infinite.

Should work real well then.