the_tool_man

I order everything from McMaster Carr when I can. Their online catalog is one of the most comprehensive on the planet. Their prices are a bit higher. But you have to remember that it includes overnight shipping. I considered using hex socket head screws. And I may switch later. Right now, I'm unsure whether to keep this car original or mod it. My normal inclination is to mod it, as I've done my other cars. But this thing is such a time capsule, I'm hesitant. So for now, I'm replacing with identical. I'm probably overthinking this. But that's what I do. BTW, I don't think hex head screws would allow room for a socket, because the heads are pretty close to the injector body. Again, I'd recommend against stainless for these. The primary reason is that they are somewhat weaker than steel, and more likely to wring off or strip the head. A second reason is that they screw into aluminum. There exists a likelihood that there will be galvanic action between the parts. If you look at the galvanic series, zinc is very close to aluminum, minimizing the electrical potential for corrosion. Stainless steel is much farther away from aluminum, and more cathodic as well. This means the aluminum will corrode, albeit very slowly due to the mass ratio.

I got the rest of the fuel rail and injectors out last night. What a pain. Injector retaining screws are JIS B1111 Phillips recess pan head screws, M5x0.8, 30mm long. I hadn't seen that documented anywhere. McMaster Carr has them in zinc plated steel (94387A338). They have them in stainless, too. But I'll stick with OEM finish, as I'd rather the screws corrode than the intake manifold. Thankfully, the two screws stuck badly enough to wring off their heads are on #5 and #6, where access is better and heat is safer. The one I drilled is on #1. Hopefully, it'll come out easier than the others, since it's still partially buried under FI harness. We'll find out tonight.

I pulled the O-rings and plugged the holes. Life has taught me that 1-in-100 odds of dropping something into a hole means it's almost certain to happen, unless I want to do it, in which case it won't happen in 500 attempts.

Updating you, just in case you though I'd dropped off the planet... Between spending a week sick with a stomach virus, work travel and other stuff going on, I've not had a bunch of time to work on the car. But I have managed to get half of the fuel rail assembly out of the car. Of the 12 screws holding the injectors in, I wrung two heads off and stripped the Phillips recess in one, and had to drill it. See pic. So now I get to attempt removal, hopefully without breaking them off in the intake manifold. I swear this car is like an onion. Working on each successive layer inevitably damages the layer beneath, creating more work to expose that layer, etc. It's hard not to worry that I'll have to remove the intake to repair it, and break an intake bolt off in the block, and then... So anyway, I'm soaking the screw remnants in penetrating oil in preparation for removal. For reference, the injector connector clips are the "U" style referenced in EuroDat's photo above (left side, center). Once I figured it out, the connectors weren't too hard to do. The contacts look good. No visible corrosion. But the boots are all torn. I will replace them, but probably not immediately. I desperately want to get the engine running. Once I deal with the screws, I think I have everything I need to reassemble and resume fuel system diagnosis. I went ahead and ordered a set of new injectors. I have a new FPR, hose, etc. Stay tuned.

Good choice for wheel availability. 5x114.3 is stock late model Ford Mustang, too. But you probably already knew that.

Newbie question...Why? Wheel availability? And what BCD will you choose?

Just paint the car and engine bay black. Best of both worlds.

Yeah. Upon closer inspection, I have the early style on most of mine. The CTS and CSV have newer ones. I think they were replaced by the PO. I've bought a kit to replace all of the connectors with new ones. I need to replace the one on the AFM, because it's broken. But unless I find a problem with other ones on the car, I don't plan to do them until sometime down the road. I may just make a new harness someday.

Yeah. I use that from time to time. I also have an impact driver, if necessary. I just don't want to strip one if I can help it. Holy crap! I just discovered that new injectors are $32 each. That's so cheap! I'm used to seeing them for $200 each on late model cars. I'm almost tempted to skip testing them, and just buy a set....almost.

I learned (the hard way - getting carb hose home and reading the "Not for Fuel Injection" printed on it) about the difference between carb hose and EFI hose. I'm using EFI hose, even for testing. On the injector connectors, mine must be different from everyone else's. They don't have a wire at all. See pic. Again, my CSV has the wire, and will come off with the wire removed. But these won't budge. Sorry for being paranoid about breaking one. But mine look like the two opposing sided need to be pried outward to clear the green tabs before sliding off. Good point about testing the injectors in place. I'll try that. Soaking the retaining screws now, as they're frozen in place. Siteunseen, I love that fuel rail. It really cleans things up. Hmm... this could be dangerous. Must get running first. Must get running first. Must get running first.

I agree on not saving the hose. But rather than risk nicking a hard line, I typically use a right-angle pick to get under the hose. I work it around the circumference, twisting on the hose a bit, until it releases from the line. Much less risky that way. From what I can tell, the only way to get the FPR out is to remove half the fuel rail. I can't figure out how the short hoses to the injectors are connected. There are no clamps on the injectors ends of them. So rather than cut those hoses, I'm probably just going to remove the injectors. And since I'm doing that, I might as well pull the whole thing apart, and bench test all of the injectors <sigh>. So, now I have questions: What size fuel hose do I need for all these little pieces? I'm guessing 1/4 inch. It's definitely smaller than the 5/16 inch used elsewhere. I'd rather have it in hand before I start pulling things apart. So taking a piece to match up isn't my first choice. Where can I get replacement OEM style hose clamps? They seem a little flimsy. I suspect I'll break one or two in this endeavor. I'm considering switching to modern spring clamps, because they are easier if you have the special tool (which I have), and they maintain clamping even if the rubber hose shrinks. But part of me wants to keep it original, so I'm investigating my options. Does anyone have a photo showing how to detach the old-style injector electrical connectors? The CSV connector had the wire, which was easy. But the other six are like the AFM, with no wire. I have replacement connectors, in case I break one. But I'd really rather not have to replace them right now, if the contacts are clean. Euro, you referred to this as "early 280z". Is there a later OEM version of this fuel rail that is easier? Is there an aftermarket fuel rail option that is more like later model cars, where the injectors fit into a solid rail with O-rings? This would be a long-range solution I'd look into. EDIT - I found the posts about the Pallnet rail. So never mind. Lastly, it occurs to me that with all this pressure testing without running the engine, if my injectors are leaking, I've been dripping fuel into the cylinders. How likely is it that I need to pull the plugs and hand turn the engine to make sure I won't hydro-lock it when I go to crank it? I'm starting to worry that I'm going to make things much, much worse if I'm not careful. Thank you for all the help.

Started pressure testing. Fuel pump builds pressure to 60psi and holds with fuel line clamped downstream of pressure gauge. Pump and check valve should be good. With no clamp, it builds to 40psi while the pump runs, but drops to zero within a few seconds of the pump stopping. Because of the rapid pressure drop, I can't pressure test the FPR without a helper. I did pull the vacuum line to check the diaphram. No leaks there. So I'll just replace it with a new one. Is there a shortcut to getting the fuel lines off it without disassembling half the fuel rail? What a pain.

Got back from the UK last night, ready to resume on the car. Walked to the shop to find a tree had blown over. Backed the car out and pulled the wheels. Took the wheels to a tire place for new tires. Started the car to drive it back into the shop, and noticed that now the tach is inop. One step forward, two steps back. Gotta deal with the tree. Then I'll pressure/flow test the fuel pump.

I didn't even know that existed. Cool.

I plan to. I'm traveling this week, with plenty of time for researching, dreaming, planning and asking annoying questions, lol. Testing resumes this weekend.

Great info EuroDat. Not trying to hijack Wheee's excellent restoration thread. But this seems like an appropriate place to ask: As my fuel pump is suspect until I can test it next week, I've been looking at pumps too. I noticed a bunch of "replacement" ones. I assume they are "replacement" in the sense that they are fuel pumps that provide enough pressure and flow, but not mechanically identical to OEM? For example, I see on RockAuto they have the Beck/Arnley OEM pump for $396, and several "replacement" ones, such as a Delphi for $81, and others. If one doesn't care about originality, or needs one for temporary use, wouldn't this be another option? I'd assume a mounting bracket or adapter would be necessary.

I ordered some extras. I've done crimping before, just not with these specific connectors. I got the pin removal tools for two reasons: 1: so I could disassemble the connectors before trimming the wires, as I want to keep as much of the original as possible (the AFM cable in particular doesn't have much slack in it), and 2: because I might need to take one apart for some reason other than to replace a crimp. Or maybe I just like accumulating tools. My connector does look just like the top one in your photos. There was no wire on it. I haven't heard anything back from Kurk. So I gave up on him and ordered this kit from Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161969530205 Since I bought the extraction tool for the pins, I have the option of using new pins on the original wires, if they're long enough. If not, I can splice the pigtails.

Describing what's going on, while limited to a keyboard, has its limitations! Part of the problem is that I leave out details that seem minor. Let me elaborate on my description: The engine starts easily. If I allow it to idle, it stumbles while idling, and dies after 10 seconds or so. The AFM vane moves off its stop while idling. If I rev it to 2000rpm or higher, it will continue to run. While running, it continues to stumble (misfire, skip, whatever). While it's running, the fuel pressure drops to "near zero" on the gauge I'm using. That gauge has a pretty big range (0-160psi). And "zero" looks to be more like 5psi. So I can't really say it goes to zero. I assumed, but didn't specifically communicate, that it was getting enough fuel to run even though the measurable pressure at the gauge is quite low. I really appreciate all the suggestions. They're pulling me in different directions! But I'm going to concentrate on the fuel supply first: When I'm home next week (traveling in the UK at the moment), I'll test the fuel pump for pressure and flow, and investigate possible flow issues with the tank and lines. I've ordered a replacement FPR, since the one on the engine may well be original, and is suspect. Hopefully, it will arrive early next week. I realize the one I have may be working fine. And I know how to test it. But it's an easy job to replace it. And I want to be able to take the car on long trips. So for peace of mind, I'm going to just replace it. Zed's theory about it leaking fuel into the intake sounds intriguing, as it explains the low pressure and rich mixture (if that's truly what's happening). So again, one more reason to just replace the thing. On my longer term list: I noticed my fuel gauge reads half-full. I know the tank was full when I brought the car home (I filled it up). So while not necessarily urgent, I need to sort it out pretty soon. I may end up pulling the sender anyway during the course of the fuel supply investigation. But if not, it won't hurt to pull it to inspect the inside of the tank for rust and debris. If I had to drop the tank to do this, I'd probably put it off for as long as possible. But between the tank drain and the inspection panel in the trunk, it looks like an easy job. I plan to replace all of the EFI connectors with new ones. Firstly, the AFM connector on my car was missing the wire retainer, and is currently held on with wire ties wrapped around the AFM. Secondly, while the contacts aren't green, they are somewhat corroded on many of the connectors. I've inquired about replacement connectors from a guy (Kurk MacKay of MacKay Power Products) recommended to me on Hybridz. He's been slow to communicate. But he offers a kit that has everything I should need. I've already ordered the pin removal tools and a new crimper to facilitate this. I still haven't completed all of the electrical tests as outlined in the EFI book. I'll do these as time permits, just to eliminate other potential issues. I need to go through the ignition system, if for no other reason that to make sure everything is in good shape. I have to repeat that amount of help here is overwhelming. I'm not used to this. Thanks!

Zed, I've confirmed that the contact in the AFM is working properly. I can see, with its cover off, that the flap stays open while the engine is running. I can hold the engine at 3000 rpm, and it runs. But it misfires, I now believe, due to fuel starvation. And for the record, I haven't changed the adjustment of the AFM spring from how I received it. All I've done so far is check and clean electrical connections. You and EuroDat have both suggested disconnecting the start solenoid to further test the fuel pump. I will do that next. I can at least determine if its building enough pressure.

Crimper tool and pin extraction tools are ordered. Made contact with Kurk about a connector kit. Thanks for the help.

Update: The visit to the pull-a-part yard was a bust. So I bought some brass fittings and a pressure gauge and spliced it into the fuel line after the filter. I put in a new filter, too, even though the one already installed looked brand new. It was fun to test without a helper. I had to lean in through the passenger side window to start it, and then try to watch the pressure gauge while manipulating the throttle linkage. But I determined that when cranking, the fuel pressure would build to about 20psi. Upon starting, it quickly (5-10 seconds) dropped to zero on the gauge. I could keep it running by revving it. But it sputtered, as you would expect. So the fuel pump is running (eliminating electrical fault, contact in AFM, etc.), but it is either worn, or there is a blockage somewhere. I'm not sure how this explains the symptoms of running rich. But that seems to have been a red herring. My next step is to run new fuel lines from the pump inlet and return line to a gas can in an attempt to isolate the issue to either a dirty tank/pickup or a weak fuel pump. I was pleasantly surprised to see a drain plug in the fuel tank, BTW. More to come.

So will the standard "Open Barrel" die set work on these terminals? I just want to make sure I get the right thing. I've contacted FricFrac about a connecter kit. Now that I've read the terminal replacement tutorial, I see the difference in the connectors. I also now recognize that at least one of mine (coolant temp sensor) has been replaced. I noticed when I was debugging that circuit that the connector used the newer wire retainer, and that there was a bulge in the harness a few inches away. I thought it might be a resistor installed to fool the ECU. But it ohmed out with no resistance. Now I realize the PO must have bought a replacement connector with pigtails and spliced it into the harness. Thanks!

Got it. Thanks. I tried to find an inline fuel pressure gauge yesterday to facilitate testing. But none of the local parts stores I tried had one. I'm taking tomorrow afternoon off, and will go by the local pull-a-part to find a late model fuel rail with a built-in Schrader valve so I can use the gauge I have. I also picked up a new fuel filter, even though the PO said he had just replaced it before I bought it. Stay tuned.

Yep. My 25 year Sunbeam project started out as "this car almost runs", and quickly became "the engine needs rebuilding", and then much more slowly became "I should just part this car out". I will NOT do that again. I probably won't live that long, anyway, lol.

If I'm brutally honest with myself, this statement describes where I've been with the car since I bought it. I've been assuming it would be one or two easy things to fix, and I'd be driving it. That's what's frustrated me. I just need to get past that and be methodical.