Carl Beck

Hi Guys: I think Mark nailed it - The cars of our youth, aren't always the cars that were NEW when we were 16 to 25 years old. Most of them are the used cars we wanted, but couldn't afford. Look what the older crowd are spending on Street Rod's today - and look at what they are paying for them at auction..$60K isn't much any more... As the Internet Z Car Club came on-line around 1987, there were two distinct groups of Z car owners sharing information there. A somewhat older group that had owned and driven Z's for years, and a younger group still in college, struggling to keep their old Z's running. To the younger group at the time, the Z was a matter of "affordable" and "fun" transportation. Today that older group is 55 to 65+ and that younger group is 38 to 45.... both are now willing and able to pay for nicer cars... FWIW, Carl B.

Funny - the last five 240-z's that have changed hands in past few months - that I know of - were all sold for $35K or more. These were of course Collector Quality examples.. Nonetheless - in a few more years I doubt you'll find a really nice, example for much less than $30K... It just costs so much more than that to restore one today... The best bargains are really in the $18K to $22K range today - they are the cars that will be over $30K in a few more years. FWIW, Carl B.

You'll have to check the spec.'s on those - I don't have a clue as to what the fuel pressure should be in that case. Nonetheless, you always want to verify the output pressure from the regulators your using. Most of them are pretty close - but then they can be 1/2 psi off, one way or another pretty easily... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Martin: There was an interesting article about Shekhar Menta in the Fall 2007 edition of NISSAN SPORT Magazine. Titled: "UNSTOPPABLE - Remembering teh remarkable life, of arguably the greatest East African Safari Rally driver ever: Shekhar Menta". Perhaps you could review that article - then put together an article of equal detail, that covers Mr. vanBergen's years with Nissan/Datsun - based on your research, your interviews with him and the photo's etc. you have collected. http://www.nissansportmag.com/ I'm sure NISSAN SPORT would like more coverage of the International Rally scene, and you could get the word out to a fairly broad base of Nissan Enthusiasts. Contact NISSAN SPORT if you don't have that issue - I'm sure they would send you a copy of the article about Shekhar for reference, layout and content expected. FWIW, Carl B.

Bump... bump..

If the line pressure is too high - it will force the needle valves in the float chambers open... and you'll see gas running out of your carb's... You can go to almost any Performance Auto Parts speciality shops - or shop the Web - and buy an in-line fuel pressure gauge. They really aren't all that expensive - Then set the Fuel Pressure Regulators to 3.5 to 4.5 psi (depending on the type and condition of your Carb's floats/needle jets)... and check the line pressure at the carb.'s. Also depends on what Carb's you are using!! Are you talking triple side drafts or OEM S.U.'s??? FWIW, Carl B.

Hi JoelH: I agree - "DONE RIGHT" a Street Mod. 240-Z will sell for good money. It's just that in my humble opinion, I see too many lazy-man, cheap arse, or very poorly thought out shortcuts taken on this one. Having driven thousands of miles, to look at hundreds of these cars - I can assure you that if the pictures look questionable, the cars are far worse when you see them in person - 99 out of a 100 times. For $10K to $12K you should get a really nice 240-Z that needs very little farther expenditures on your part. One that exhibits the craftsmanship and attention to details that a higher quality Street Mod. 240-Z will have. When you find one - be willing to spend the money up front for higher quality - it will always be far less expensive in the medium to long run. All these cars have a certain amount of "Price Elasticity" - I called this one $5K, based on the amount of additional money you would have to put into it, to get it to the level you said you wanted, and at which price range you were looking in. So buy it for $5K, put an additional $7K into it - and who knows, perhaps you would wind up with the car in the shape you wanted it. The "norm" is that if you plan to spend an additional $7K - you wind up having spent twice that by the time you are done. (ask anyone here;-) The rule of thumb today is - "You can't pay too much for a really good 240-Z, and you can't pay too little for one that's not." Check some of the cars and the asking prices in the "Classifieds" here on this sight - just as a reference. As always - just my perspective... Carl B.

Like I said - everything is OK for a Street Modified Z - but it can't be judged for "value" against a value guide for Classic Cars... Work done 16 years ago - may need a lot of rework by now. Picture #1 Dash Cover - cracked dash ($850.00) Wrong Seats - rebuilt, recovered OEM seats - $400.00 by the time your done at least Wrong Carpet set - 280Z Carpet covering the correct diamond vinyl. Wrong Steering Wheel ($150.00 restored - maybe $50.00 used) Wrong Shift Knob... $75.00 OEM replacement in show condition Picture #2 Wrong rear carpet - correct diamond vinyl covered or missing Looking at the hatch hinges - was this car originally Orange? Picture #3 Wrong Wheels...not period correct for a 240-Z, even if non-OEM hubcaps Rear Deck emblems missing $150.00 Engine Compartment Picture non body color - and a very sloppy paint job - no attention to details.. It would take a lot of effort to straighten this out at this point. don't know if it still has the original engine or not...????? painted over the plastic air intakes, shock covers, painted over the accelerator linkage - uck painted over the hood support - uck painted over the brake vacuum booster - uck missing OEM fuel filter & holder...(not unusual for triples, but not stock) Red Block - uck Electric Fans - missing stock fan... Body: Black-out or missing stainless trim on both windshield and rear window FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Steve: I believe you are applying the wrong value guide to the car. NADA values Classic/Collectible/Special Interest Cars. When they say "restored" or "older restoration" - they are talking about a car that was returned to it "original" condition - ie Pure Stock. NADA Values are NOT for 95+ Point, Concours Judged examples either - Most of us would call them very high end #3 Condition Cars, to lower end #2 Condition Cars at best... Nonetheless they are valuing Pure Stock, correctly restored examples... (not Perfect Examples). The car we're looking at is anything but Pure Stock... it's a Street Modified, week-end cruiser... I'm sure it's a neat car for what it is - but it can't be held to the values of a Restored Classic Car. I'd agree that "IF" the car was pure stock - and presented well - even in average condition it would sell for $9K to $10K..... but almost everything is WRONG with this car considered against Pure Stock. FWIW, Carl B.

As for the car ask about in the original Post - no way a street mod'ed car, refreshed 19 years ago with the issues mentioned so far - is worth anything close to $12K. If it was $5K I might go look at it.. only because it is close... In the Street Mod. class - you can buy a much higher quality example. Keep looking.... or wait until it sits there for the next three months, with no buyers then offer him $5K if it checks out and runs well. FWIW, Carl B.

Very interesting to compare these two 280Z's even though they would both attract quite different types of buyers. 27K vs 83K mile 5spd. vs A/T constant use vs sitting for 20 years not used perfect body vs a body with damage/small spot of rust and needing refreshing running vs non-running??? Ohio vs California All original documentation vs ????? To an extent it's a show car vs a project car.... we'll have to see what the final prices for both are, before we can decide which offers the most value for the money paid... FWIW, Carl B.

Hello Martin: Good to see you here. I am sorry that you felt the information you sent me, about Mr. van Bergen was "censored" by me. The word "censorship" carries a connotation that I do not believe applies in this case. To the best of my knowledge, no one (Merlin nor myself) is attempting to stop information about Mr. van Bergen from being published... ie censorship. The truth of the matter is that while I personally found it interesting from the perspective of Datsun/Nissan history - there was very little information related to Mr. Van Bergen and the Z Car, ie. the main theme of "the Z Car Home Page". So I didn't really see much Z content to publish there. TSK 33 SA 694 - I believe that van Bergen had the lowest finishing position of any of the Factory Teams running Datsun 240-Z's in the 71, 72 and 73 Monte Carlo Rally (10th OA in 71), so at the time, I couldn't build a story around that, without a lot more information. FWIW, Carl B.

Looks like a very good Z to start with ... it could be a real beauty when you are done.. I agree with 240znz - get brakes, get it running and drive it for a while. Then decide what to do, and in what order. Personally, I'd take it apart - get the body and paint work done... then work on the suspension etc. Nothing keeps you going like a car that "looks" like it deserves drivetrain and suspension improvements. Besides, they are all bolt on items that can be easily done, after the body/paint - and you would not wind up with over-spary from the body shop on your new suspension parts, or engine... FWIW, Carl B.

Phil, in another thread confirms that the original engine is no longer in the car nor available. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Phil: The starting bid on #279 is $7,500.00.... The asking price on #357 is $10,000.00... You are asking $4,000.00 for #464.... That's pretty close to half as much... It's really hard to find a 69 production Z - that would be considered to be in "restoreable" condition (restoreable in the sense of a condition grade - being a Classic Car) for much less than $8K today. Did not mean your asking price should be cut in half again - as you have already done that. Spend $35K to restore a matching number car, or spend $35K to do the same for a non-matching number car. The matching number car will sell for $35K and the non-matching number car might sell for $18K. FWIW, Carl B.

HI Phil: There is a question as to the original engine still being in the car or not. One person reported engine serial number L24-04642 as being installed in the car. Did you put the original engine, with Serial Number L24-02389 back in the car, or was it in the car when you bought it? thanks, Carl B.

Hummm..... I have it last reported for sale in Calif. - by Byron. At that time the original engine serial number was #2389 - but the car had #4642 installed. Pictures of the engine compartment indicated a later engine... Perhaps we need to see #2389's serial number on the block, in the car... to cler this up. FWIW, Carl B.

As for #464.... Then you would wind up FAR behind.... in the end. I don't believe that #464 has it's original engine... value is cut in half.... and it would be hard to resell for any thing other than a daily driver... Funny the ad. doesn't seem to mention that... FWIW, Carl B.

Eiji at Datsun Spirit was able to get rebuild kits for me, out of Japan. I don't know about getting new pistons... but you might give him a call. See: http://www.datsunspirit.com/ Good luck, Carl B.

Now that is really FUNNY - devious as hell .... but really funny... Carl B.

Mr. Keneto has one of the most stunning Street Mod 240-Z's I've ever seen. I spent an hour looking at every finely tuned detail on that car at the West Coast Nationals several years ago. The engineering, craftsmanship and detail work are all first class. I understand he has a 510 that is just as nice... FWIW, Carl B.

AZ-240z: The two "D" shaped washers you have - go on the fenders where they lift slightly to cross the radiator core support. (if you only have two of them -that is where they go). A lot of times you'll find them farther back, simply because the assembler had a hand full of them at the time (I'm guessing - no other rime no reason I can find) Many early cars also have hex-head bolts that have a low shoulder (look like bolts that have had the head ground down) - they were used in the headlight nacelles - so they didn't stick out and hit the hood before the hood hits the bump stops. This was because the manufacturing tolerances on the headlight sugar scoops / nacelles were pretty broad, and they vary in thickness. Just my take... Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

If you are looking at a 240-Z, or communicating with a seller - just look at the Data Plate on the Drivers Door Jam. It lists the VIN and Date of Manufacture for cars sold in North America. Nissan used 4 distinct series of numbers along a continuum to identify the various chassis/models being produced for the North American Market. Because various Sales, Production, Calendar Year vs Fiscal Year vs Model Year - reports from Nissan Motors differ, in their intent and methods of data gathering - below is the best information we have... as a result of actual data gathering from owners, reviewing the various Nissan documents and attempting to reconcile all the above. As time passes, we may find a few higher VIN's for any Series.. Series I, Oct 69 into Jan. 71 HLS30-00013 into HLS30 020438 (highest VIN reported to date) These cars were sold/titled as 1969, 1970 and/or 1971 Model Year Vehicles. Series II Jan. 71 into Sept. 71 HLS30-021001 into HLS30 043496 (highest VIN reported to date) All sold and titled as 1971 Model Year Vehicles Series III Sept. 71 into Aug. 72 HLS30-46001 into HLS30 100262 (highest VIN reported to date) All sold and titled as 1972 Model Year Vehicles Series IV Sept. 72 into Aug. 73 HLS30-120001 into HLS30 172767 (highest VIN reported to date) All sold and titled as 1973 Model Year Vehicles. Some details related to the various equipment changes are listed on the Z Car Home Page at: http://zhome.com/History/DesignChanges.htm FWIW, Carl B.

Hi E. The above is what I quoted - note it says clearly "not tearing down a car for sale here". I reinforced that by writing ... "We are talking about the car here..." Yet the main jest of your entire response to my Post - was about assigning unscrupulous motives to sellers. I think I understood what you were originally saying... thus no response to your Post. THEN: The Above statement brought my response: "Then a car comes up for sale - and so that we don't hurt our own financial interests - we are supposed to stop finding, and pointing out all the faults with the cars offered for sale?? ." To Which E replied: I think you are saying that's not what was said nor implied by YOU. I felt it was certainly implied in X-Ray's statement. I know that this has been a confusing thread... but I think you have confused my Post, with anything you originally wrote, and I believe that within your farther responses you are intermixing comments about the cars and comments about the sellers.... then farther compounding the discussion by assigning motives to the people that made comments... You did have a few clear statements - to which I agree. But I hasten to add - I said NOTHING about the sellers, nor the discussion related to the sellers motives.. FWIW, Carl B.

Thanks - I'll find some and try it. Carl B.