Carl Beck

Hi Gus / Z-Speed: We had a pretty good discussion related to Awakening A Sleeping Beauty some time ago. I'd suggest reading the entire thread as several others offered additional tips and advice. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22619&highlight=Awakening For What It's Worth Carl B.

I wouldn't put it quite that way. Some people might think that means you can drive your Classic Car to work every other day, or twice a week etc. I believe that one has to take care with the words used, least they be misinterpreted, or the use of the vehicle is put in the wrong context. Your Classic Car, insured on a Classic Car Policy, may not be "driven to work" a couple times a week. Driving to/from work is considered "daily transportation" and daily transportation vehicles must be covered by regular line insurance coverage. No can your Classic Car be used to get to/from work when your regular transportation vehicle is out of service, in for repairs etc. If on the other hand, you are "taking" your Classic Car to your workplace - so that associates and co-workers can see it, or just to show it off for the day - - - that intent, with that specific use - is allowed on Classic Car Policies. I would respectfully disagree that is reasonable for Dad to borrow a Classic Car car for a week or so. Classic Cars are not "loaners", to be used in place of daily transportation, by anyone. On the other hand, if Dad took the car for a "pleasure drive"... kept it at his home for a few days to show it to friends etc.... that would be fine. You really want to avoid giving any underwriter, any impression that the Classic Car is ever being used for any purpose other than "pleasure". Speciality Lines of Automotive Insurance, are chartered by the States to fill gaps in coverage that may exist within the Full Line Automotive Insurance industry. They are not allowed to compete for the same business, which means the intended use of the car must be very narrowly defined...usually something like "for pleasure use only"... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Doug: Yes - that's me - I guess I'll have to be more careful of how I dress when going to pick up these old Z's. Hi Ron: Yes - I pointed everyone here toward the car after I offered it to Gus... he wasn't ready at that time... and lucky for him it was still there this month. He made the seller a cash offer over the phone and she accepted it... Good thing for him he wasn't dealing with her in person... she worked for the magazine "Makes and Models" if you get the picture ;-) I offered to meet him at the car to help load things up - thinking the seller would be there - but she had her Father meet us..... bummer.... It was good to see Gus again, but gee... :-) In the end, Gus just picked up the best candidate 240-Z for restoration that I have seen in the past five years. Original Owner, all stock and original 32K miles..... I'm really happy for Gus and we'll have to keep bugging him for status reports... I'll let him tell everyone the details about the car.... FWIW, Carl

While the topic has been covered in the past - it would be good to alert new members that may have missed those discussions - as to just how important it is to have your Classic Z Car insured by a speciality insurance company, on an Agreed Value policy. So if we are sending them to the archives to search for Collector Car Insurance - we should also send them to the archives to find the threads that people involved in accidents with their Z's - who didn't have Collector Car Insurance, have gone though in the aftermath. It is never pretty... when a claims adjustor tells a Classic Z Car owner that his/her Datsun is worth $1,200.00, when they have over $8K or over $25K in the car... If your Z isn't a daily driver - it is very important to have it properly insured on a Collector Car Insurance policy - but you also have to have a clean driving record etc. By the way - I use Hagerty also. They know Classic Z Cars... and appreciate them for the Classic's that they are. You can get an on-line quote at: http://www.hagerty.com FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Doug: Yes, I certainly do remember it. Matter of fact, ToxIc's original post brought the picture of that night to my mind. We had the space and the skills that night - just not the proper tools. On the other hand we had plenty of beer ;-) I'm not sure if that made the process more or less challenging but it was more fun. In spite of the fact that ToxIic stated right up front, that he did not have the tools, space and skills to do a restoration. Many people here told him to do it anyway. My original objection to, and disagreement with E's Post was that E told this newbe not to expect to be seen in the same light as those of us that do our own restorations/refreshes etc. E is certainly entited to his own light - but that is most certainly not the light I see the Z Car Community in. Contrary to what E believes (don't tell him how poor I am) - I have never written a check for, nor bought in any other way, a restored nor refreshed Z - Of the 12 or so cars I've refreshed/restored, with the exception of paint/body work I do all my own work. I did send an historic racing engine out to professionals, I had to have professionals recreate a custom Fuel Cell etc. I did my own work on cars when I was young because I couldn't afford to pay someone else. So I developed the skills and picked up the tools along the way. Later in my life I did the work myself because I enjoyed it, and yes I have the tools in a place large enough to work today. Nonetheless, like you and many others here, I see Purists or Modifiers, Restorers or Buyers, Racers or Weekend Warriors all in the same light - Classic Z Car Enthusiasts. After all the discussion here - my best advice to ToxIic and others like him would be to go buy the best 240-Z they can afford. Pay the money right up front for a really good car. Take out a signature loan if necessary and pay it off over time - - in the end you'll be a lot of money ahead, and in the mean time you'll have a good car to drive and enjoy. We have all seen too many people start do-it-yourself projects, spend a lot of money on all the wrong things, then let the project sit unfinished for years and years - only to dump it in the end. If you don't have the tools, skills and space; and little hope of gaining them in time to do the project - don't kid yourself. Of the three -"skills"- are the first one that needs to be developed. Buy a really good car to start with - then learn to do the minor things first, and increase the scope or difficulty level of follow on projects on that car. FWIW, Carl B.

Sorry E - but I have to protest, or disagree, or make the counter points... I believe that is a grossly unfair misrepresentation, where you infer that serious Classic Car Collectors, Serious Z Car Enthusiasts are "jet setters" just because they buy the cars they love rather than build them themselves. I really disagree with the perspective that if you didn't do it yourself, it somehow has less meaning, worth or value; than the meaning, worth, or value put into finding and buying the Classic Car of your dreams. No question that there is indeed a specific group of people that enjoy buying expensive toys for themselves. Their motives may be to impress their friends, or simply to wizz off the poor people that envy them. Yes that group exists - but so far they aren't buying Datsun 240-Z's!! No question that there is another specific group of people - that through their hard work have put themselves in a position to be able to finally buy the cars of their youthful dreams - but do we really want to look down our noses at them - for writing a rather large check for a near perfect 240-Z? They are the very people that provide the rational, or belief that most of us hold on to - while we are writing a seemingly endless number of smaller checks, with bleeding knuckles and shaking hands. Would any of us put $25K+ into "refreshing" a 240-Z without any hope that if we had to sell it at some point in the future - there might be a buyer that could write a check for at least $18K for that #3 condition 240-Z???? You seem to hold the impression that the serious Collector, or Enthusiast is a gadfly, just writing checks along the way to his destination. What you fail to comprehend is that buying the 240Z they wanted, is really a significant milestone on their journey. Make no mistake, they are enjoying their journey just as much as any of us. If anything, I'm really thankful that "those people" are there, that they want to join us in our affection for for our Z's. The bottom line is - NO you don't have to do it yourself to fully appreciate fine craftsmanship, love a classic car, nor be a Z Car Enthusiast. It is perfectly acceptable at least to me - to send a car out for restoration or write a big check for one that's already done. If owning a "new" 240-Z enhances your journey - .... Me and Mr. K will be there smiling and waving as you pass by.... after all none of us built the car to begin with... and there is no need for us to do it ourselves today. FWIW, Carl B.

Possible? Sure - it takes about 350 HP to push the 240-Z up to 150mph... Easy with a strong V8... not likely with an N/A in-line 6 although not impossible... Didn't TonyD get close to that.. and it's been done on the salt flats... FWIW, Carl

Pretty much what you would expect to find in the New York Times comrade. On the other hand if you follow the Wall Street Journal, you see that President Sarkozy is trying to regain some of the Billions lost in trade to the US. They need the money... Believe it or not, even my wife started buying French Wine again. Sadly in neither case do we get any real Journalistic Reporting of factual information that would be of any use to us. Sex sells and if it bleeds it leads.... We've all become mushrooms.. keep in the dark and feed mindless BS. just my perspective... Carl B.

Personally, I think he is doing what is best for France. Seems to be a fairly level headed guy. I admire his taste in women. He made a pretty good impression on the American Press - even without saying anything offensive or derogatory about America. (they would rather have a lot of spicy conflict to repeat). Its a pleasant change. For far too long the Professional Politicians have used Machiavellian tactics to divide people, gain and control power. American bashing in most of Europe has been a popular tactic used to divert attention from the real social and economic problems facing the ECU for many many years now. It seems that no matter how many times Socialism is tried and fails - it still holds appeal to people that belive they can get something for nothing, when most everything is being siphoned off by the powerful few. Just my personal view, but it is past time Americans and Frenchmen realized that they are simply spectators in the Liberal vs Conservative Game. Paying Spectators - that are being constantly milked to feed the greed for Power that is endless with Professional Politicians. Spectators that don't get paid to pay the game, don't really benefit from it in any way, have lost control of the rules... and are in the process of losing more than their hard earned money. If you seriously believe that you are a Democrat, a Republican, a Centrist, Right-Wing, Left-Wing or Green - - then you are a fool. You are just a spectator of the party, sucking in all the propaganda the Cheerleaders use to whip you into a thoughtless frenzy. President Washington warned us all - in his Fairwell Address - so that we wouldn't be suckered into this BS .... but we've become so stupid... here we are. Hyphenated Americans being played one against the other, Red States vs Blue States.... France has it even worse... divided and subdivided.. Only the Powerful win, while Americans and Frenchmen lose. Funny how the citizens of two Countries joined at the hip in revolution, can so easily be mislead to such low opinions of one another. Sad actually. FWIW, Carl B.

There is a set of Stage I Euro Springs on E-bay... The seller has them listed as fitting 240/260/280Z.... but they fit only cars made after 08/73... Part Numbers 54010-N3502 and 55020-N3502 FWIW, Carl B.

Usually the suction chambers are stuck - because gasoline was left in the carb's and it turns to varnish, which in turn glues the bottom of the suction chamber down. Buy a gallon can of carb cleaner - and drop them in for a few minutes... up to an hour. Things will loosen up.... you may have to work them a little, but they will free up. Chances are they are better than you would think... FWIW, Carl B.

The "E" is for Electronic Fuel Injection. All L28's in the 280Z's and 280ZX's came from the factory with Electronic Fuel Injection. So your L28 is actually an L28E. FWIW, Carl B.

"but" ? The Series I cars had the plastic tool storage covers... So it sounds like your Z is a Series I example. At present - the highest VIN we have recorded for a Series I example is HLS30-20419. 240Ztt has 20425, but we don't have confirmation of its configuration, likewise 20438 was reported, but no pictures or confirmation of its specific configuration. FWIW, Carl B.

Actually, it is both. It is a 1970 Production Year, or a Series I Datsun 240-Z most likely produced in 12/70. A model which was still being produced into Jan. of 1971. It was originally sold and titled as a 1971 Model Year. When talking about years - you have to specify Calendar Year, Production Year, Model Year etc - otherwise a discussion can get very confusing to people following along. Looks like your Father waited 7 months to get "a 240-Z". A seven month waiting list was not at all uncommon in 1970. Traditionally, here in the US new "Models" are introduced in Sept. or Oct. of the year prior to the upcoming Calendar Year. Because the car arrived at the Dealership in Feb. of 1971, and because the Series I Datsun 240-Z's meet all State and Federal requirements for both model years 1970 and 1971 - the car was both sold and thus titled as a 1971 Model Year Datsun 240-Z. Although the car was the same "Series" for both 1970 and 1971 - the price was not the same. The MSRP of the Series I models sold as 1971 Model Year vehicles was higher than the MSRP of the 1970 Model Year vehicles. Would be interesting to know if the Dealer held the lower price for you Father...$3526 or changed the sale price to the higher price prior to delivery. Most Dealers raised the price... or used the 1971 Window Stickers.. Nissan introduced what they called the "Late Model Year 1971 240-Z", the car we commonly call the Series II models in Jan. 1971. They sold and titled this car as a 1971 Model Year 240-Z as well. It too meet all State and Federal requirements for the 1971 Model Year. In 1970 through 1981 the VIN was comprised of model information and a chassis serial number. "H" = 2.4L engine found in the 240-Z "L" = Left Hand Drive Model "S30" = 2 dr. Sports Coupe (title will usually say "Cpe") 15369 = Chassis Serial Number (for the Left Hand Drive chassis) That is a shame, on the other hand he got to enjoy it for at least 10 years. Not at all uncommon for the doglegs at the rear wheel arches to rust on the Series I cars... easy to fix with aftermarket patch panels. If the rust is actually on the rockers - it can also be metal patched. Good luck with the car.. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Ron: Oops... I updated the file, then failed to upload to the server. I'll correct that.. Carl B.

Hi GWGarrard: Didn't mean that to sound like I was straightening anything out - only adding some info I had in my personal files. According to the info that Kats supplied: 543 total in 69 537 regular production (52 Oct, 388 Nov. 97 Dec.) 6 preproduction or factory prototypes - 1 May - 2 July - 1 Aug - 2 Sep FWIW, Carl B.

I had Bob Smith in Golden, Co. as owning the car. He reported that it was originally white with a black interior, but had it painted Deep Red. At the time he reported the production date as 11/69. That would line up pretty well with the original engine serial number of L24-02746 as well. Carl B.

Hi Robin: That's an interesting picture. I'm guessing that your build date is actually 12/72 {not 12/02}, and I see that you have the toggle switch for the hazard warning flashers... rather than the Green Push/Pull lighted switch more common on the 73 Model Year cars. Makes me wonder at what point in time, Nissan started using the newer Green Push/Pull Switch. 1973Z and Bonzi Lon - which type of hazard switch do you have, and what is the build date on your 73's? FWIW, Carl B.

Hi bjhines: Either intentionally or unintentionally - you make it sound like all US spec. 73 240-Z's came with the relays and harnesses you describe/show. Just to be clear - they did not. When the 73 Model Year 240-Z's arrived - they carried basically the same wiring for the electric fuel pump as the 70-72 model years did. To mount an electric fuel pump at the tank, using the existing wiring in the harness - you simply added a jumper with an in-line fuse holder, to connect two wires under the right side of the dash. As Arne outlines... that makes the pump feed hot when the ignition key is on. Later in the Model Year - after thousands of customers were stranded by vapor lock and/or percolation problems - Nissan came up with a series of Dealer Installed modifications intended to address the starting and running problems, brought about by the 73 Emissions Standards here in the US. These modifications included "fix'es" and/or adjustments to many components, only one of which was the addition of an electric fuel pump. The harnesses and relays you show - were only part of a Dealer Installed Kit, called the V-3 Modifications Kit - only 73 240-Z's that were returned to the Dealers, along with continuing customer complaints, received the Kit. It is possible that very late production 73 Model Year 240-Z's started to arrive from the Factory with the electric fuel pump installed... maybe the last couple of months of production. I don't know for sure, as by then - I was no longer working for Datsun. All this is outlined in Nissan's Service Bulletin titled "DATSUN 240-Z & 260Z MODIFICATIONS PLUS - FUEL SYSTEM MODIFICATIONS, as well as in several other Service Bulletins. I'm certainly no expert on this - but the Service Procedure tells you to check the fuel pressure on the electric pump with the engine running at 1000 RPM. I don't understand how that could happen if the relay turns the pump off after starting. Vapor lock was only one of the issues, percolation and vacuum break were also major contributors to hard starting after running, stopping then restarting. FWIW, Carl B.

Steve/ Bonzi Lon Feed back from our Original Owners, that know they have the original dash in their cars - supports your position. I've updated, edited the description on "the Z Car Home Page" to make that distinction clear. http://zhome.com/Classic/Restore/dash.htm Thanks for pointing that out... Carl B.

"Restore" to put back in original condition, aka "as it left the factory" Give me the car - and you would have at least $35,000.00 in labor (and I'm cheap labor). That would be to take the car apart, send the shell out to a good bodyshop for body and paint. Send the engine out for a rebuild, tranny out for a rebuild etc. Then the labor to put the car back together to OEM spec.' and standards. In addition to the labor - you would need about $40,000.00 for parts and services like machine shops, electroplating, engine and tranny rebuild facilities, body shop etc. That would include the labor needed to find the parts in the first place. Take the car to any serious Restoration Shop - and you would have to give them a retainer for at least $50K before they would put the car in their shop. If on the other hand you are really thinking about "refreshing" a 240-Z that is in good condition to begin with - - you might get away with as little as $20K plus the cost of the car and necessary parts, perhaps another $15K.. The bottom line is - it would be financially silly to pay someone to restore a 240-Z for you - far less expensive to simply buy a restored car. You can still find #2 condition cars for $25K to $30K today. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Jon: Visit the Club Store - hyper-link at the Left - and buy the CD-ROM for the S30. It includes the factory Parts Catalog for your Z. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Robin: In your signature line - you list HLS30 140770 as your 73 240Z. That would be a correct VIN for a 73 Model Year 240-Z, even if it had a build date of 07/72 through 12/72 and beyond. If the date of manufacture on the data tag on the door jam says 02/72 then the VIN would be something less than HLS30 103xxx. Are we talking about two different cars? Or is it possible your build date is 07/73? Something is out of wack here. FWIW, Carl B.

1973Z: Maybe... send me a picture of your dash in that area.. and I'll ask some of our original owners to do the same. Give me the build date on your car and if Bonzi can do the same - we'll see what we come up with. thanks, Carl B.

Documented on the Z Car Home Page http://ZHome.com See: http://zhome.com/Classic/Restore/dash.htm