Carl Beck

I don't have pictures of a #1 Condition 240-Z. Hope to have some by the end of this year... Here is a #1 Condition 1978 280Z Black Pearl Edition. As I recall it now has something less than 700 miles on it. Always kept in a dehumidified air conditioned display area. A #1 Condition car is clean enough to win a Concours - you won't find a spec of dust under this car. A #1 Condition car is "as it left the factory" - or actually in the case of our first generation Z's "as it left the showroom floor". (having been PDI'd and detailed after arrival at the Dealership). In the first picture you can see that the window sticker and dealers supplemental price sticker are still in the window. Everything on this car is original and perfect (except the engine oil and battery) - you will not find a single flaw. In the second picture - the engine and engine compartment are original and perfect. All bright yellow Cad and Zinc plated parts - are as new. Every hose clamp is original and as new. etc. etc. etc. BTW - the 1980 280ZX 10th AE in the background is also a #1 condition car. A true #2 Condition Car would be very close to this - but it would lose a total of 3 or 4 judging points out of a possible hundred, for very minor imperfections. Might lose a couple of points for "over-restoration" compared to a #1 car. An all original example with say 10K to 20K miles - might lose a point or two because the Yellow Cad or Zinc plating has lost its brilliant shin - but then be awarded a bonus point or two for still having its original parts present in excellent (although not perfect) condition - its up to the judges. FWIW, Carl B.

If you drive the car in, leave it - then expect to drive it out a few weeks later - $3,500.00 would be in the ball park. If you do the removal and re-installation - then the initial setup and tuning - $2,500.00 would be in the ball park. If you do it, you'll wind up replacing all the belts, hoses, most likely adding a new or rebuilt alternator and starter... "while your at it".... Price can go up or down depending on the number of new values you need, the number of new rocker arms, new OEM pistons or not, the use of OEM or non OEM replacement parts etc. FWIW, Carl B.

Can you show them to us - on the net? thanks, Carl B.

Actually that chart is incorrect. The 4spd. in the 70/71 Model Year - type A was not the same, nor did it have the same gearing as the 4spd. used 72-74 Model Year type B. Secondly the 5spd. in the 1980 280ZX is different in its overdrive 5th.. 0.773 for 1980 model year and 0.745 for the 81-83 model year. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Rif: Sounds like a very well cared for, low mileage ZX. I'm sure it will give you decades of enjoyment. It is getting harder and harder to find 280ZX's like that... Since the tread is titled 1981ZX, I'll mention this ZX here for other ZX Enthusiasts. If you know anyone that would like an all black, 79 280ZX 2+2, that could be a potential Gold Medallion Winner - with less than 7K original miles, from the original owner - let me know. The car is in Colorado and would be $20K. Very interesting history too... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Poindexter (everyone) I can't argue with your primary reason - as it is yours. Mine is perhaps a little different. (just to continue this discsussion a bit). The primary reason that I have, for purchasing an Agreed Value Classic Car policy is to assure that the value of the car that is agreed to, is high enough to assure the car would be properly repaired, in case of an accident; without the major hassles presented by regular auto insurance with ACV coverage and Claims Adjustors. I can not stress emphatically enough - "properly repaired". Anyone that has dealt with a regular automobile insurance company Claims Adjustor - when attempting to get an 8+ year old car "properly repaired" rather than totalled - will know exactly what I'm talking about. My secondary reason would be to cover at least 80% of its replacement cost. I use an 80% factor because there is relatively low risk of it being lost/totalled - and I can afford to take a small loss if necessary. On the up side it keeps my premiums low. Simply a risk/reward trade-off. I believe we all have to keep in mind that there can be a significant difference between the current or future "market values" of these cars and their "replacement cost". To be made whole again - it is the replacement cost that must be recovered. Market Values vary greatly between the various geographic areas of the US. Clean 240-Z's on the West Coast and in many of the Western States are significantly lower than they are in the Eastern States. Mostly this is due to supply/demand in the local markets. Lots more were sold in the Western States to begin with, and a higher percentage survived. Let's say that your present 71 240-Z has a market value in the range of $12K to $14K in N.J.. As we can see - if we are following another thread at present - a $12K 240-Z located in California will cost one about $16K+ in N.J., once transportation costs are included.($4K enclosed transport) Add 7% sales tax here in Florida.(how much is it in N.J.). How about the cost of having the car inspected when you can't fly out to inspect it personally? Or the cost of your travel to inspect any prospective replacement? FWIW, Carl B.

The value of "original factory paint" could fall into a couple of different categories. a) The added value when selling the car The added value of having a perfect original car Most buyers that are looking for clean, well maintained 240-Z's - that they intend to refresh or restore themselves - will pick a car with its original paint over one that has been repainted poorly, repainted to cover previous damage etc etc. Nothing turns serious and knowledgeable buyers off faster than a slick, shinny and cheap repaint - on a car that otherwise is a questionable driver. In these cases a car with its original paint in decent shape will bring a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars more, and it will sell more quickly. Pay $1200.00 for Maco to paint it - and you'll actually make it harder to resell, and it will usually bring a grand or two less money. The value of having the original paint on a #1 or #2 example is certainly there - IF (big "I", big "F").. IF it is near PERFECT. Few things sadden the true Collector's heart more than to see an exceptionally low mileage (15K miles or less) example - that has otherwise been well cared for - having two or three door dings, or a couple of major scratches... These obvious FLAWS drive the perfectionists crazy!! Serious Collectors will simply take a pass... they do not buy cars to restore, they don't want to screw with the hassles of body shops and paint work - - they just keep looking for perfection. They will pay for it when they find it. Those very minor flaws can reduce an otherwise #1 or #2 condition car - to selling for $10,000.00 less money. (because it takes a year and an $8,000.00 paint job to correct) The value of the original paint on your car at present - in addition to that stated above (faster resale in a competitive market, plus a grand or more over other examples in otherwise like condition) - would be in terms of talking points as people admire it. My 510 SW has about 75% of its original paint - the hood and left front fender having been repainted after a minor fender bender (before I owned it). I am always quick to point out to people that most of the paint is original - on car that's 36 years old with 303,000 miles... It's fun and of other than monetary value to me.... How much value do you put on a fun factor... FWIW, Carl B.

AND How about this one? http://zhome.com/Ads4Z/Howey/Howey.htm rare color that is really pretty when new and shinny.. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Fred / everyone: Yes - I remember the young man, and his Father was there with him. I think his Father had a full appreciation for the history of the car with his family. It really was a beauty - that needed only a few details corrected... The Collector that was there with me, was torn... between making an offer on that car or not. He didn't want to make the young man and his Father agonize over making a decision to keep the car or paying for college expenses.. In the end the Collector decided not to say anything... although he did make an opening in the conversation - that if they had wanted to sell it - or put a price on it - he would have bought it on the spot. FWIW, Carl B.

I can't remember exactly - but didn't the 240Z on E-Bay that we are discussing - win Best In Stock Class at the ZCCA Convention in New York? Chris - didn't you judge that show? That was Dr. Hyzer's car and he was the original owner. At any rate - speaking of values - a car that has been judged at a major event, by knowledgeable judges - will generally bring more money, only because prospective buyers have at least a better idea of the quality of a car they can't see. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Ron: Actually the gasoline evaporative control system was only required in California in 1970. The U.S. Clean Air Act gave the individual States the authority to set local standards based on their local air quality. Our EPA wasn't established in law at the Federal Level until Dec. of 1970. Nonetheless, California accounted for over 35% of Datsun sales so all cars intended for the US were built to the California standards after Jan. Several of the early production (69) cars did not have the gasoline vapor recovery system, but so far all of them we have found had the Air Pump.. Canada did not require the Air Pump for their emissions standards in 1970, so several early cars into Canada were not equipped with them, although Nissan seems to have standardized production by late Jan/Feb of 1970 for all North American Z's, or the Canadian emissions standards could have changed as well. Air quality testing, emissions standards and technical compliance were all iterative processes during that period. Our Federal Government, our various State Governments and the automotive manufacturers were all heavily involved. When legal requirements were passed, that some of the automotive manufacturers simply could not meet, they were granted delays, sometime by made and sometimes only to specific models... I agree that in many cases the paperwork and the product didn't agree. Our recent discussion about the carpeting is an example. FWIW, Carl B.

If I had to guess, and a guess would be all it would be.... I'd say that the Z Car pictured is most likely one of the two North American Test Cars.... with pictures taken when they were in Canada in 69. FWIW, Carl B.

Sports Cars in general have never been a significant part of the total American Automotive Market. So reason #1 for the current prices on Datsun 240-Z's is simply supply and demand for classic sports cars. Relatively very little supply but also relatively very little demand. When supply and demand are about equal, prices stabilize... Within the class - the values of Datsun 240-Z's have done fairly well. Go find/buy a Triumph TR-6, an Opel GT, a MG-B GT, a Fiat 124 Coupe or a Porsche 914... today. All were in the same CLASS and price range when sold new, and there are a lot more 240-Z's still running than any of the others. I think you'll find that when comparing cars in the same category - the 240-Z's are highly valued today. Because they were so reliable and desirable lots of them are still around. Go up a price class - to the Alfa's, Lotus, and lower end Porsche 912/911's... I think you'll still find the 240-Z's relatively highly valued.... I think it is unreasonable to expect buyers of Pony Cars, Muscle Cars - to have an interest in the Sports Cars of the late 60's to early 70's. Priced a daily driver 1968-72 Corvette latey? FWIW, Carl B.

Only by dorks...

Too bad Nissan didn't stick with the Parker Agency... someone there would have known that by 1970 no one was using "groovy".... that was from the 60's 77 Sunset Place....da... Secondly it always bothers me when a DATSUN 240Z is shown by Nissan USA and never a mention of DATSUN. Someone should climb that Bill Board the next time a 240Z is up there - and Paint DATSUN across it.... I'd do it if I were in California.... you can bet on that. Great photo's however... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Chris / bigoak Thanks guys, I'm glad to hear you like the article. I feel really good that more people will be able to see it and perhaps learn a bit more about BRE and DATSUN's Off-Road efforts in the late 60's and early 70's. They didn't get too much coverage in the period Sports Car Magazines, although covered in the Off-Road media. Since then Mr. Brock found another picture from the 70's - this one in color. http://www.bre2.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=B&Category_Code=brearchivephotos240zs and of course I had to order that!! Originally, BRE didn't have the front parking lights/turn signals installed - but I had to put them back in to get the car road legal and licensed. We got to see what was more or less the final draft ahead of publication. Mr. Brock and I reviewed it with the author, to assure that everything was as accurate as possible. I was impressed with the story line and writing, as much as the authors efforts to get everything straight. Sometimes stories get totally screwed up along the way.... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Randy: For street use - I'd improve the shocks first, then add a slightly larger front anti-sway bar. That will get rid of about 90% of the body roll you feel on the long sweepers coming onto the freeway. Adding the larger BRE type rear anti-sway bar will significantly change the handling characteristics as mentioned above. Stock the 240Z understeers - so you have to turn into the corner more with the steering wheel.. and the body rolls more...push it in too fast and tires begin to complain.. The good news is you get plenty of warning as the tires reach their limit of adhesion to the road surface. Truth be told, even with the body roll and tires screaming... the 240Z will hold the road past the point that most drivers have the nerve and good sense to push it. Push it into a corner too fast, panic and lift off the throttle abruptly - and you will learn what "trailing throttle oversteer" means, as the rear of the car passes you in the corner... Every upgrade you made (we are talking true "up-grade" here) to the OEM suspension - helps the tires maintain contact and adhesion to the road - but also reduces the warning you get before the tires let go. I'd do one thing at a time to a stock Z (unless you have lots of seat time in Z's of all manor and are a master driver etc). Better shocks first, then larger front bar, then better tires, then add the rear if needed. I'd put lots of miles on the car between each change. (we are talking about a car driven on the roads). Do everything at once, and you may feel too secure with the flat and seemingly neutral handling.... and when the tires suddenly let go of the road, you wind up off-road. FWIW, Carl B.

Has anyone found the Sept. issue on the Magazine Racks at retail outlets yet? Every magazine stand here is still selling the July issue. Of course no one that works at these places has any idea of when to expect anything to arrive. I've tried Boarders/Barns as well as the usual Drugstore/Grocery store racks... thanks, Carl B.

The two on the rear and one hook on the front are tie-down hooks. One bracket with the hole in it, is a towing point. As I recall that was usually on the Right Front... Yes, the Dealers were supposed to remove the tie-down hooks, to prevent people using them as tow hooks. Most Dealers were too busy getting mag.'s, body side moldings and bumper bars installed prior to delivery, to mess with removing anything. FWIW, Carl B.

Tell me about that air cleaner.... thanks, Carl B.

When you get them - post some pictures. Since the original ad is gone - I didn't see it. So I don't know what shape they are in. If the rims are not pitted too badly - you can have a good machine shop turn them down. You want to aviod allowing stress cracks from forming out of corrosion spots. Exactly what "AM-wheels" are they? I'm going to be very upset if it was a set of LeMans wheels.. -VBG- I've been looking for one more 14x7.5 or even 14.7.... for a couple years now... Carl B.

If you use your Datsun 240-Z for regular transportation rather than "for pleasure use only"... then a "Stated Value" policy is most likely better than not. It's possible to compare a regular auto policy that gives Actual Cash Value as it's limits of liability to that of one that uses a "Stated Value". In both cases however the final settlement in case of a total loss is subject to agreement by the Insurance Companies Claims Adjustor. The insurance company has NO Obligation to pay the Stated Value in full. With a Classic Car policy - that has an "Agreed Value", there is no claims adjusting to be done in case of a total loss. The Classic Car insurance company has an obligation to pay the Agreed Value in full. Huge difference in process and legal obligation. Normally a huge difference in the premium being charged as well. Classic Car's don't suffer anything near the loss rate that transportation cars do, so the premiums are far lower. If you have a collector quality Classic Car - with a real value two to five times that of a daily driver - and you use it for pleasure use only - don't accept anything less than an Agreed Value policy. If you do have to use the car for transportation purposes - then don't have it on a Classic Car policy. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Nick: That is correct - if you use your car for daily transportation - it would not be covered under any Classic Car Policy. No matter who you purchase "specialty insurance" from, its coverage can not overlap that offered by the Full Line Automobile insurance policies. If you plan to use your 240-Z to drive to/from work one day a week - you are in effect using it as daily transportation. I CAN drive any of my Classic Cars to work to show them off whenever the mood strikes me. The coverage is based on your intended use of the car - not were you are going. So if you ask the question: "Can I drive my car to work?" The answer the person at Hagerty should have given was - "that depends on why you are driving it there.". If your intended use is to replace the use of your daily driver 20% of the time (one out of five days per week) - then NO it would not be covered for that use. If you intend to take it to your workplace to show your fellow workers, participate in one of the many company sponsored "bring your Classic Car To Work Days" for display - then yes it would be covered. Again I'm sorry that whoever you talked to - provides such misinformation. I have had policies from the Hagerty for going on 20 years now - none have any mention of mileage restrictions. I assure you that I can make one lap of America and be fully covered. Again - misinformation. One person many of us know has about 30 cars in a very large detached garage - and he is an Insurance Agent for the Hagerty. Again nothing in the Policy requires an attached garage. That is true - if you are using your Classic Car for daily transportation purposes such as going to work or going shopping - you should have it covered on a Full Line Auto Policy. If you are driving your Classic Car on a Sunday Drive - no one has to be afraid to stop at the 7/11 for a cold drink or coffee. Your covered. Here again I'm afraid the person you talked to - doesn't really understand the differences in "use" between the Full Line or Regular Auto Insurance Policies - and those issued by the Speciality Insurance carriers that will issue Agreed Value policies on Classic Cars. The Speciality Insurance Carriers are authorized by the State's they operate in - to offer coverage that IS NOT offered by the Regular Auto. Insurance Policies being sold in that State. If you read carefully the actual Insurance Policy you receive - if it has an Agreed Value (not Stated Value), it will clearly define what a "Classic Car" is vs. what a "Regular Transportation" car is. It will also state clearly that a Classic Car CAN NOT be used to replace the use of your regular transportation vehicle. One thing that is common to all Classic Car Insurance Policies that I have seen - is the requirement to have a different vehicle insured as your daily transportation, covered by a Full Line or Regular Automobile Policy. If you don't have a requirement to have a different car insured for daily use - chance are very great that you don't have an Agreed Value policy. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: TrackSide Photo in L.A. has been covering the Off-Road Races/Rallies since 1970. A few of their photo's were used in the Classic Motorsports Article. If anyone in the Classic Z Car or Sports Car Community is interested in Pro-Rally / Off-Road competition - TrackSide has a great web site to browse. You can order any of the pictures from them at fairly reasonable prices. http://www.tracksidephoto.com/ 70's Baja Races at: http://www.tracksidephoto.com/gallery/index.php?category=gallery/1970s/73Baja500/Cars&start=0 For Example: BRE was not the first team to run a Datsun 240-Z at the Baja. The first picture below from TrackSide Photo's shows the 240-Z entered by Thiel Motors of Modesto, California in 1970. Morton/Brock ran a PL510 together in 1972 (second picture below). The story of that adventure was captured in Sylvia Wilkinson's book "the Stainless Steel Carrot". That is where my interests in the Off-Road aspect of BRE and Datsun's partnership began; as there was no coverage in the typical "Sports Car" media in the U.S. of the day. The BRE Baja Z wasn't the only car ran by BRE in 73. They also ran a PL510 shown in the third picture below. There is a color image of this 510 on the BRE Web Site.... The BRE Web Site also has several historic photo's in their photo archives. It's a neat sight to visit as well. http://BRE2.net FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: Here are a couple of my favorite pictures from the Classic Motorsports photo shoot. First one shows Mr. Brock attempting to get the exact angle and light to capture the rear suspension etc. Keep in mind that is cool for Florida that day, and the wind was blowing about 30 knots all the time... You can see the loose sand blowing across the hard pan on the beach, behind Mr. Brock and the car. Second one shows Mr. Brock standing with his Z - as tall as he is, I don't know how he ever fit in it. Reward movement of the seat is limited when the seat back hits the fuel cell. Mr. Brock spent about 4.5 to 5 hours shooting the car. Must have taken a couple hundred pictures. Over-all I thought the guys at Classic Motorsports did a nice job with the article. A friend of mine is working on a Video... so I might be able to Post a few clips at some point.