Carl Beck

Some time ago - I read that the later ZX R180's were built somewhat like the R200's internally, and the 280ZX R180's had four rather than two spider gears. Strictly looking at the Parts Catalogs - the ZX R180's do seem to have additional parts over the Z R180's, and therefore do seem somewhat the same as the R200's. Anyone know anything about all this? Are there R180's that came with 4 spyder gears? (other than the LSD units). thanks, Carl B.

aka.... Torque-Thrust Terry... on E-Bay.

Hi Bonzi The highest VIN reported so far is HLS30 172767 with an 08/73 manufacturing date. The Classic Z Car Register on the Z Car Home Page includes only the cars that the owners have given permission to publish the data for and for which complete data has been submitted. I maintain a much larger list of VIN's/Engine Serial Numbers/Color/Owner/E-mail etc. that includes the cars from the Public Register as well as all the data that other owners wanted to keep private. The private list has just under 1000 HLS30's 69 to 73, and about 100 HS30's. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Ron: Thanks for the encouragement... I keep mine dry!! It only takes once to learn that lesson:finger: Right now I'm not driving the BRE Baja Z much - no one around here has any 110 octane racing fuel - all deliveries to this area have been held up because the tankers are all carrying fuel to the hurricane damaged area's first. I'm told that the next deliveries will be $9.98 per gallon as well... FWIW, Carl B.

I had a complete place setting for 12, plus serving dishes of fine china, sent from Japan - along with crystal stemware etc. They came in about five large boxes... and not one thing was broken. (of course good china is actually very strong stuff).. Of all the items I've had shipped to me, or that I have shipped over the years - very few are ever damaged in transport..... I guess that there is a certain statistical probability that some will arrive damaged or some will go missing... Might just be my bad luck it happened on three expensive and hard to find dashes.. I am holding a shipping tube right now - that was crushed and the items inside damaged - for FedEx... again left on the front porch.. which is usually fine, as I would rather have items left, than have to be here to sign for them. Nonetheless, I feel that the driver should leave a note about the damaged container... They NEVER DO... The shipping tube used was very high quality and very strong!! If you don't believe me, try bending one. These were photographic prints.. and crumpled so badly that it smeared the prints - so it was not just a matter of ironing out the wrinkles.. Replacements have already been sent (although held up coming out of California these past few days due to the storms - - should have them today or tomorrow)... and so far I have not been ask to return the damaged container nor goods.. So I'll just hold them for now.. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. FWIW, Carl B.

Good to hear some good news. I've been though that fence thing - and our neighborhood has been through the downed trees (although ours stayed upright). Also the loss of power for more than a few days. I put a back-up generator in after the last time - so we could run the whole house including both A/C units. With the water and high humidity - you have to have A/C to prevent mold/meldew growth.. not to mention just living through the heat and humidity of the season. The generator runs on natural or bottled gas - so we have both. They make sterile bladers that you put in a bath tub - and fill with clean tap water before the storm. That gives you several hundred gallons of reserve. It is amazing how much water you need every day.. Nonetheless, with the approach of any hurricane above Cat. 1 - we'd be out of here way head of everyone. I've been though major storms and I have seen what they can do.. All the measure I've taken, are only intended to let us live though the minor damage you'll see on the very outside fringe of a major storm... So far we have been very lucky here... Good luck with the fix up projects.. Carl B.

Finally found a few pictures from the "shipping damage". I had lots of pictures, and put them on a Web Page while working the claims with UPS, FedEx and Air Bourne. One NOS Dash was bubble wrapped and placed inside it's OEM Carton - than that carton was packed in another very strong box, with the shipper suggested 3 or 4 inches of packing peanuts on all sides. Two grown men could stand on any side of this outer box - without putting a dent in it. The first picture shows the OEM container - as it was found inside the white outer box. Crushed! When it was left on my front porch - the outer white box had obviously been crushed. I called the transport company (can't remember which it was for this one)... Told them about the package.. and they said to hold it there - and they would send an inspector out. Four or five days later he showed up, took pictures and gave me forms to fill out and mail in. That started the process.. and it was down hill from there.. Doug: I'm sure you know the process as it is supposed to be handled.. per the company guidelines or written policy etc. But I can assure you that none of this was that simple... and all of it was a complete hassle by corporate bureaucrats, trying to manage their numbers. (claims submitted vs claims paid/denied, total shipping loss for the quarter or whatever their performance was measured by.) NONE of them, at any company gave a damn if I was a satisfied customer or not. All of them treated the claim like it was a case of insurance fraud on my part) I filled out the initial claim forms completely and correctly - after that it went downhill with what I considered unreasonable demands for ever more and more documentation, paperwork submissions and claims that were somehow "lost", and the process restarted.. Also - two of the three cases - they did not recover the damaged item, nor containers. They simply told me to dispose of it. In all three cases I had clear pictures of the damaged items, the damage to the containers, along with the packing materials used - and I also put all that on a Web Page for them to see. (seems that I have since purged those pages from the server). I did find the pictures below as a copy still in my "Sent Mail" files. I may be able to find some of the other two.. I can assure you that something weighing several thousand pounds had to be sat on top of that box to crush the outer container, the inner container and the dash itself. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: There are a lot of "issues" with the insurance coverage on items shipped, and it depends on who or what shipping/insurance company you are dealing with. It would take several pages to outline the grief of the entire process, in all cases. 1. In two of the three cases - AIR - AirBourne/Fed-X it is the "shipper" that is insured, not the person receiving the shipment. (even though in most cases it is the receiver that pays for insurance) That means that whoever you purchased the item from, has to deal with the insurance forms and process. That means that once you have paid for an item, the seller has your money and really no great incentive to focus on recovering it from the insurance company, then returning it to you. This dash is a good example... there is only one... and if it gets damaged in shipment... you have to supply proof of damage on your end, hold the item for inspection, be there when THEY want to inspect it etc. Then you have to push the seller to do his part on his end... This may or may not be a problem, depending on the seller. 2. YOU have to provide PROOF of Purchase, prove that the item can not be repaired, supply an invoice for the replacement item if it can be replaced. ( I was very lucky that I had a friend at a Nissan Dealership's Parts Dept. that would send me an invoice for a new Dash - along with a letter from the Service Manager stating that there was no repair available for a dash - it was a replacement item only - most people are not going to be able to get that paperwork). All the document gathering and submission is on your time.. and they usually either reject the claim the first time, or return with more requirements for farther documentation. If it is a private seller of an unusual item, with what they consider an unusual price - then they require that the seller submit a notarized statement of value etc. Then you start dealing with a Claims Adjustor that offers to settle for less than the insured value - when you refuse to that - your claim goes into a black hole somewhere.. On the third dash - I arranged both pick-up and delivery - Thinking that I'd avoid the hassle of trying to get the seller to do all the paperwork on his end, if anything happened. So in this case I was both the shipper and receiver. I had UPS pick the item up and deliver it. I was not home when they delivered and came home to find a crushed box left on the front porch.. The insurance company they use, simply did not have a process set up to handle claims where the same party was both shipper and receiver - I went round and round with them... It was an $850.00 claim, and they have a automatic $100.00 deductible (that they don't make clear when you purchase the insurance - but that's another story)... Large retailers - have the funds or inventory to simply ship another item if your purchase is damaged and they deal with the insurance, or they self insure. It's the individual seller that sends a few things out - and has no cash reserve to return your money if something is damaged that presents the most risk to you. Can you refuse a shipment? Yes, if you are there when delivery is made, and if you can catch the driver before he runs for his truck. The problem then becomes recovering your payment from the seller, because now you have no proof of damage to the item, you have no item and the seller has your money, plus the seller has proof of delivery for the credit card company etc. Can you refuse a shipment? Yes - if you require a signature for delivery, leave a sign at your door that tells the shipper you will not accept delivery without a signature. Plus use only a credit card for payment. That way you only have to deal with your credit card company to get the charge reversed when delivery is not completed. But even then, if you refused delivery, or allowed it to be returned to the seller - they can/do charge large restocking fees. Like I said above - a lot depends on who you are dealing with. I'd say that in general - shipping insurance is a racket. Anything like a 35+ year old dash - I'd only buy if I could see it at the sellers location and pick it up myself - or have a knowledgeable friend pick it up personally. FWIW, Carl B.

Yes - you can be sure it will be less maintenance with the paint, although it's the outter lips that take the time.. Left to turn gray naturally, you have to keep them coated with a very light oil, and you have to keep them dry. It takes a special process, and specific primer to adhear to the mag...No one around here knew how to do that, nor what to use as the primer. So I just let them age.. Mine already had a sealing/coating on the inside of the mounting surfaces so I left that in place... without it, the mag's will leak down fairly quickly. FWIW, Carl

Hi Sean. Carl B.

Hi Mike: You know I'm just kidding..I'm sure I will find another (or another set)... The wheels look great... It didn't seem like enough time had passed to have the centers turn dark gray. As I recall it took several months for mine to turn. Did you paint them? FWIW. Carl B.

You are really quite cruel. Carl B.

They were all beautifully packed... the shippers crushed the containers. One was wood framed, plywood exterior. Dash wrapped in bubble wrap, then packed inside at least four inches of packing peanuts on all sides. It looked like the container was dropped from a great height, and landed on one corner.. the "shock" made the dash flex inside the container, and it cracked right in the middle... big wide crack. Another was packed just fine - lots of padding, lots of packing peanuts.. The cardboard container looked like they had sat an entire shipping container (truck trailer type) on it. It crushed the box, and the dash inside..

In todays market $9K is most likely a reasonable price to pay for an early car in that condition. I'd like to see more pictures of the interior - but what I do see looks pretty good.. FWIW, Carl B.

I've had three Series I dashes shipped... all three were destroyed in shipping. You wouldn't believe the hassles trying to get the insurance company to pay... takes years... FWIW Carl B.

Kind of makes you want to have a good roll cage installed.... along with a 5 point and strong seat..

Anyone know where HLS30 00198 is NOW.. and how to contact the owner? {old e-mail address isn't working} thanks, Carl B.

Buying, Selling and Trading cars really is a carry over from the days of horse trading. "Buyer Beware" and "a fool and his money are soon parted" apply in spades! Its a matter of knowledge and experience vs a lack of both in all to many cases. Everyone wants to brag about a good deal they made, no one wants to admit to being snookered. For that matter, few people want to admit that they paid full asking price for anything. All too often seller, buyer or both get so tied up in the negotiation of the deal - that one or the other really miss closing a sale on a super car. Ego takes over.. and knowledge/experience are wasted. Good models depend on accurate data points and I'm afraid that when it comes to horse trading, or car trading accurate data points will always be elusive at best. People guard their privacy, actual selling prices are rarely reported for purposes of paying State Sales Taxes. Who in their right minds would then publish proof that they lied to the Tax Authority? If you knew someone paid less than $5K for a car, would you then be willing to pay $25K for it? With rising values of Classic Sports Car why then would anyone want to publish the actual price they paid for a car?.... da.... Large sums of CASH trade hands, and are then broken into far smaller sums and deposited in many different bank accounts all under the $10K reporting criteria (private transactions are none of the DEA nor IRS's business). About the only place we get a chance to see how much a car sold for - is at the auctions and E-Bay. Even then there are dubious transactions, sales that are backed out of after the car is physically inspected or the wife finds out. Not to mention the fact that we have no idea of the actual quality of the car because we haven't actually physically inspected it. The bottom line is: When it comes to value or worth, simply ask yourself; "what else can I buy today in the Classic Sports Car market that offers the owner satisfaction and future potential for the amount of money I have to spend?" If there is nothing else, then buy the 240-Z you want. If there is something else that offers more - go buy it instead. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Larry: I was one of the people that sent you a PM - and referred you to the previous discussion thread related to E-Bay Sellers, and more specifically to DatsunParts. I'm glad to know that I wasn't the only one. The car was offered on E-Bay several times before, and it was discussed here. I too will hope that when you receive the car - it is actually delivered on time and turns out fine, and that you are happy with the purchase. I'm sure we all wish you the best. I also hope your recommendation of Datsun Parts isn't premature. FWIW, Carl B.

Low number in the world of artwork = higher quality. Low number in Z's = higher value because of rarity and/or interesting build process - ie. an interesting story about that car that very few others can tell. Hand welds vs machine welds = higher value because of rarity - and/or something additional of interest. A few coins minted by the U.S. Mint are worth serious bucks because they got out into circulation with a "flaw"... super rare and additional intersting story to tell. FWIW, Carl B.

What is "special" about the first 500 or 1000 (depending), is the fact that they contained many preproduction or prototype parts - not found on later cars (as mentioned earlier). It simply makes them more interesting to serious Collectors. What is "special" about the 69 production year Datsun 240-Z's is the fact that only a known very limited number of them were built. Again making them special to serious collectors. 535 mol vs 20,000, 32,000, 52,000 etc. Who the car is "special" too does matter as it relates directly to the market value of the car. Serious Collectors want the first year of production, and they really like owning one of the first few produced. To a growing number of Serious Collectors, a #1 Condition, 1969 production year, $40K 240-Z is a bargain today. Much the same as when they were cherry picking the 63-67 Corvettes and paying between $12K and $18K twenty years ago for #1 and #2 condition examples. Or buying Classic Ferraris in the $40K to $60K range 30 year ago. Enthusiasts, as much as they love the cars - really never do comprehend "Collecting" nor "Collectors". Not to many of us have 10 or 20 Classic Ferraris, Jag.'s, Porsches or BMW's in our collections. But that doesn't mean these people aren't out there, and in great numbers today. The sharpest Collectors today realize that no Classic Sports Car collection is complete without a Datsun 240-Z. Serious Collectors love Classic Sports Cars. It isn't about the money (they are for the most part loaded with money).. it really is about their love for beautiful lines, competition history, significant design. They buy these cars to KEEP. Don't confuse Serious Collectors, with Speculators that flip cars in a year or two. Speculators buy low and sell high if they can. BTW - No one really said the first 500 came over on a single boat. R&T reported that the first boat to arrive in L.A. with 240-Z's, carried only 20 Z's. As that ship arrived the first part of Jan. 1970 - and BRE got one of them - we can only guess what other cars were on it. Bottom line is - if you care about the future value of a 240-Z, that you plan to spend $25K to $35K or far more, restoring to a #1 Condition. Then the 240-Z's with the lowest VIN's and 1969 Production Dates make the most common sense to start with. They will always bring a premium over the later production cars and they will usually sell more quickly. That is already true today and it will most likely be true tomorrow. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Julio: There are actually three different rear spoilers being discussed here. So the first question is, "which one do you have?" 1. An original Nissan OEM rear spoiler 2. The aftermarket reproduction of the OEM rear spoiler {produced most recently by Classic Datsun Autosports - Les Cannaday}. 3. The BRE style rear spoiler - also reproduced most recently by CDM/Les The first two will have the raised flat area - intended to hold the emblems, the third type will not have the raised flat area. If you have the #3 type, I'd leave the emblems off, as it is hard to mount a flat emblem on a curved surface. In any case, if you remove the emblems from your deck lid, make sure you fill the holes before mounting the rear spoiler. 100% silicone calking or RTV will seal the holes without damage to the body. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bob: Glad to hear that everyone is OK. That is exactly why I have a second 72 240-Z to drive - You simply can not replace the Z you've owned for 36 years!! Here in Florida it's Alligators rather than Deer.. To bad someone isn't offering an Anti-lock brake upgrade for the old Z's rather than the "big brake" options!! That would be far more useful for most of us... FWIW, Carl B.

#194 at this point would most likely be the best buy if you wanted to restore a 69. Given all the spare parts and work already done, plus the fact that it's already back East... The reduction in the total "hassle factor" alone worth $5K.. FWIW, Carl B.

Great thread Danglybanger... fun to read My Father liked big fast cars 40's Caddy's and early to mid 50's Packards. Something he had in common with my first Step-Father (Dad died when I was 11). My first Step Father had a 56 Packard 400. When his son got to drive the Packard he was 17 and I was 13... there wasn't a Chevy nor street rod in town that big huge Packard couldn't walk away from. Step Dad, his son and I went "car shopping" in 58. He drove a Chrysler 300, then we went to the Pontiac Dealer and drove a Bonneville with F.I., then drove a Star Chief with Tri-Power... The Star Chief was a 4 door, and StepDad liked the throttle response on the Tri-Power... so he bought that. For the next couple of years, the only car in town that could keep up, indeed would edge it out by about half a car length in the 1/4 - what that F.I. Bonneville... (that 2 door coupe was lighter than the Star Chief). I'd still love to have another 61 Pontiac Bonneville.... that was the car he traded the 58 in on... By then I had my first car - a 57 Star Chief Convert... Wow those were the days... FWIW, Carl B.