HS30-H

I'm an advocate for the likelihood of ****-up over conspiracy. And educated guesses based on cross-referenced evidence are for sure better than assumptions. I make an effirt to go with the former wherever possible, but conversing with you is sometimes like herding cats. On the contrary, I have an ever growing capacity to believe and accept - if not expect - that our beloved Nissan of today can make a mess of anything it gets itself involved in, especially so when considering the caliber of some of its current feted international 'personalities' and representatives. But I've not been citing any Nissan-sourced "images for marketing purposes" in our recent exchanges, so you can park that one in the next available space. There go those pesky cats again. I was referring to the parts/components photographed on location by independent photographers working for two different Japanese magazines. Seeing as the articles were specifically about the VZ Program process it seems to me a fairly high probability (shoot me if you think it's an assumption too far...) that the parts would end up on VZ Program cars. Clear enough? Hope so.

It also seems very likely that at least some of the components you describe as 'props' went into the restoration of the VZ Program cars, so they are pertinent. If we are discussing odds & probabilities, my bet is that many of them ended up on the cars in question.

As above, he's in Maine. I'm sure he'll comment when he returns.

He did indeed, and you'd be well advised to obtain a copy and read it.

No. Quite simply, I'm pointing out that "the engines were built by AER" is not the whole story. As was shown in the Pierre's shop photos - and has been related anecdotally - some engines were also rebuilt on-site (with machining likely done by contractors), so it's the usual case of story being more complex than bald statements - and VZ Program PR blurbs - can convey. This VZ Program engine build digression started because a VZ car owner asked about valve seats. It was you who made the suggestion - bizarrely, in my opinion - that the engines may not have been fully rebuilt, or even not rebuilt at all! I posted contemporary photos from Pierre's workshop which I hoped would help to contradict that and I think it's clear that the VZ cars would indeed have had proper engine rebuilds - one way or another - and yet, having made the suggestion of a lesser scenario (your 'alternator rebuild' simile), you don't own it. Where's your retraction? Now you've got another Straw Man scenario going where I'm somehow suggesting that "...Nissan engineers worked alongside AER employees or..." or, or, or. Where does this come from!? Where does that "Nissan engineers" quote come from? I haven't seen anybody make that suggestion. I and I'm sure many others appreciate your valued input on this forum - especially on technical matters, in which you use your expertise to help a lot of people solve issues they would otherwise be lost with - but you have a habit of complicating discussions on matters historical with alternate, hypothetical, if not totally imaginary scenarios. It doesn't make for good detective work.

No. Quite simply, I'm pointing out that "the engines were built by AER" is not the whole story. As was shown in the Pierre's shop photos - and has been related anecdotally - some engines were also rebuilt on-site (with machining likely done by contractors), so it's the usual case of story being more complex than bald statements - and VZ Program PR blurbs - can convey. This VZ Program engine build digression started because a VZ car owner asked about valve seats. It was you who made the suggestion - bizarrely, in my opinion - that the engines may not have been fully rebuilt, or even not rebuilt at all! I posted contemporary photos from Pierre's workshop which I hoped would help to contradict that and I think it's clear that the VZ cars would indeed have had proper engine rebuilds - one way or another - and yet, having made the suggestion of a lesser scenario (your 'alternator rebuild' simile), you don't own it. Where's your retraction? Now you've got another Straw Man scenario going where I'm somehow suggesting that "...Nissan engineers worked alongside AER employees or..." or, or, or. Where does this come from!? Where does that "Nissan engineers" quote come from? I haven't seen anybody make that suggestion. I and I'm sure many others appreciate your valued input on this forum - especially on technical matters, in which you use your expertise to help a lot of people solve issues they would otherwise be lost with - but you have a habit of complicating discussions on matters historical with alternate, hypothetical, if not totally imaginary scenarios. It doesn't make for good detective work.

Another weird flex from you. I have no idea who the people you speak to for your "background information" (woohoo) are, nor did I assume to know them. If you think I did then you might like to do some re-reading. Arrogance? The person talking about "resident armchair experts" might want to look in a mirror occasionally. And what's this "across the pond" thing about? Is it supposed to be some kind of slight? This forum has active members from across the globe and is much the better for it. I mentioned the author of the two books in the context of certain sources being - arguably - less reliable witnesses than would be ideal, even given their proximity to events. The point being made seems to have sailed over your head. The whole reason I posted the photos from the magazine reports - with the engines/engine parts at Pierre's - was because of the post from Zed Head throwing doubt on the idea that they had been fully rebuilt. Obviously they were. But then the claim was made - baldly, without qualification or caveat - that AEM rebuilt them. Dangerous if swallowed whole. Both positions were wrong. You get my point about gurus? Probably not... Huh? Again, I posted the photos in response to a suggestion that the engines were not properly overhauled. The inference was that corners were cut (specifically in relation to valve seats) and the period magazine shots from Pierre's workshop tell a different story. Documentary evidence, for which I was thanked (gracefully) by an interested party whilst the person who made the suggestion of non-overhaul blithely moves on, otherwise unchallenged (LOL). I don't know what the fact that the magazine articles happened to have been published in contemporary Japanese titles has to do with anything, except that you seem particularly exercised - if not slightly overexcited - by it. They showed the point I was making. Simple as that. Oh and "...worships at the house of Japanese superiority..." is a good one, even if it exists solely in your imagination. These are, after all, Japanese cars so it seems germane to take the Japanese side of the story - at the very least - into account. I certainly wouldn't recommend ignoring it, even though the cars and the people who built them came from "across the pond"... Blind spot for you, perhaps? Ha ha ha! Classic. One for the archives there. Comedy gold. Thank you. Thinks: I'll park it up next to 'The Factory'.

The classiczcars.com knowledge base was pretty much built on the experience, expertise and forensic investigative curiosity of "armchair experts". Much of the historical data and official documentation you now take for granted - and quote from - made its public debut here thanks to enthusiastic amateurs. In contrast, one of your "people involved in the program" has knocked out a couple of hardback books - to great fanfare - but which are packed with enough misconceptions, mis-captions and plain old mistakes as to make them all but worthless for entertainment let alone reference material. You'd be well advised to take care in choosing your gurus. Just a few posts ago, the claim was made that "AER Manufacturing in Carrolton, TX remanufactured the engines." Sounds quite definitive, doesn't it? But... Thanks for the, er, clarification but the word "may" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Is it anything more than a guess that the incomplete engines photographed by two different Japanese magazine photographers just happened to be some of these "early ones", rather than any other explanation? At the very least the contrast between the two statements illustrates that a little pragmatism is required when investigating the 'facts' behind the legend. The more I've read about the 'VZ Program' over the years, the more it seems to be revealed as something less than the well-planned and executed operation that its PR at the time would have us believe. A really great idea, less than ideally planned and executed, ending short of its original targets. The resulting cars are great in and of themselves and the story has paid dividends in terms of column inches, but overall the 'Program' seems like the proverbial swan - floating serenely on the surface whilst paddling furiously below...

So the engines were reportedly 'remanufactured' at AER Manufacturing, but the photos from two different Japanese magazine articles on the VZ Program show a partly assembled engine (in one) and two in-process cylinder heads (in the other), clearly not at AER. There often seem to be missing pieces - or pieces that don't fit - in the VZ Program story...

A couple of pages from period Japanese magazines which covered the 'Program' show engines and engine parts (see attached). Clearly - and fairly obviously - the engines were rebuilt and warrantied. It's not like overhauling an L24 was rocket science or anything. No rare earth elements involved. Putting forward the idea that that they were just given a spruce up and a coat of paint is fairly, er, out there...

The big irony with this latest Z-related Seiko limited edition is that - despite the big SEIKO stickers on a few of the Works rally cars (in some cases applied post-event...) the cars themselves were usually fitted with Kanto Seiki 'stopwatch' clocks and a matched pair of a HEUER 'Master Time' 8-day clock and 'Monte Carlo' stopwatch. The Heuers were there simply because that's what the international crews - especially the navigators - were used to trusting. Accurate stage timing - leaving and entering controls, special stages, road sections and service halts - was absolutely vital in the big events and HEUER were the go-to. No disrespect to Seiko - I've got a small collection of vintage Seikos and I wear one every day - but there were no actual Seikos in the cars this new limited edition links to.

The latest complete Fujitsubo 'Legalis' twin pipe systems will fit your L26 engine and your Australian market RS30 Datsun 260Z perfectly well. The newest type works with your RS30's R200 differential (earlier systems were only configured to fit cars with R180 & R192 differentials). It will also work well in terms of performance (suiting your triple carb setup) and will sound great. Recommended.

Personally speaking, I love it. It's a rare example of 'finger trouble' at the factory which Nissan corrected and a very human touch as such. But for others it has created some consternation and questioning, largely because it is so rare and undocumented. I'd be happy to own such a corrected number, but others wouldn't...

Being devil's advocate here, who expected Nissan to go back into production of parts just for the Z Store program in the first place? Seems to me - and I was paying attention on the Japanese S30 owner/enthusiast/specialists/parts supply at the time for my own needs - that there was a whole lot of 'Lost In Translation' going on between the Z Store planning people, NMC USA, the shops doing the work and the many-headed operation that was NMC Japan. That's the only reasonable explanation. Who would embark on a project which required new parts to restore a three figure number of cars without checking on and securing the stock and/or resupply of said parts? We could easily make a case for the Z Store Program being a good idea that was - in its execution - very "poorly run", in spite of its success in publicity and PR terms.

Exactly that. The engraving fixture hooked onto the firewall in a fixed position (one for RHD, one for LHD) and the operator did his stuff. 99.999% of the time he got it right. The rest of the time stuff like this happened:

Incidentally, you might be interested to hear that the Japanese market FSMs use the term 打刻 ('Dakoku') in relation to the individual vehicle ID on the firewall. It translates as 'Stamping' in English. They use the same term for the engine number and the engine bay tag, when they are clearly performed with different processes to that on the firewall. Again, I would not take it literally. It is similar to saying that something is 'written' on a page when it is printed, and vice-versa.

I wouldn't take that literally if I were you. Their intent was to convey information on location and form in an easily understood and digested nature for people who were used to the national vernacular of their automotive scene, not describe the process with which is was executed.

Not on the S30-series Z's firewall. 'Dot Engraving' displaces metal rather than removing it. In the case of the letters and numbers we are discussing, the dots are so close together that in close-up they look like one continuous form. The deformation is visible in the reverse side of the panel. The firewall sheetmetal on the S30 is thin enough gauge that some deformation of the surrounding metal occurs (noticeably more on some letters and numbers than on others) so it is all too easy to imagine this is the result of physical - 'one blow' - stamping. It isn't. Here's a bare metal example of a Nissan S30's firewall '3' number, showing front and rear. This is classic close-form Dot Engraving:

The process involved aligning a fixture to the firewall of the unpainted bodyshell (other Nissan vehicles had the identity elsewhere - for example my KPGC10 Skyline GT-R has it on the LH door sill) into which the full combination of chassis prefix and body serial number was dialled-in by the operator, and then the machine did its thing. We have seen examples of mistakes (operator error...) which have been 'corrected' by the same process and then authenticated with a Nissan 'hamburger' cipher. We can play terminology tennis between 'stamping' and 'engraving' to our heart's content but the process used was - I believe - more correctly described as 'Dot Engraving', where a punching point deformed the metal into the desired letters and numbers in the distinctive Nissan font of the period. This method - although in a much more developed and computer-controlled form - is still in use today. Here's a modern version of the machine (on the dreaded Ali Express, no less...) with a playable video: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007340921417.html?dp=CjwKCAjwp_LDBhBCEiwAK7FnkgNg_pgoKEwp2vl_LmTjbAZXtPHK3lxpnCZE8Rsz8cmrvpF30NaRhxoCKVwQAvD_BwE@254613&isdl=y&aff_fsk=_okqVOWy&src=delupeUK2025&aff_platform=aff_feeds&aff_short_key=_okqVOWy&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21GBP%21616.83%21585.99%21%21%21%21%21%40%2112000040338251243%21afff%21%21%21&cn=254613&cv=466926&af= I would imagine that the somewhat laconic and haphazard nature of the late 60s Nissan Shatai results was symptomatic of the machinery being used. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it was - along with Nissan's distinctive font - intentionally difficult to tamper with/replicate/forge. Anyway, the big point here is that when people talk about 'firewall stamping' and 'VIN stamping' it calls to mind old-fashioned letter and number stamps that would be whacked with a hammer to make their mark. Doing that on an unsupported firewall (the other side is in the cowl well...) would be pretty difficult without big deformation, and if supported it would require some other kind of fixture on the other side. In my KPGC10'S case it would be impossible on the (blind) door sill. I'd like to see a machine that could physically 'stamp' a firewall VIN on an S30 in one go (I'm imagining it to be steam-powered...) but the whole thing sounds far too impractical. The dot engraving machine seems to have been a lasting solution. This is actually a subject which we have discussed previously here on the forum. @kats even came up with a photo of the same fixture still being used on late 1980s and early 1990s Nissan Silvias (S13/S14?) but - of course - I'll be damned if I can find the thread and the image. Don't know why this place is so hard to search for something I know is here. S30 chief engineer Hitoshi Uemura gave me a copy of a period Nissan document which showed the positioning instructions for the chassis number fixture, but I was asked not to publish it (and I'll honour his request).

'Course the guys who REALLY know their onions know that the bodyshell's individual identity is ENGRAVED on the firewall, not stamped... 😊

If a sermon could save even one soul it would be worth preaching. I think you'd find - if you gave it the benefit of the doubt - a smattering of eager listeners in "this crowd" who would appreciate the chance to hear what you have to say. If we don't deserve it, then who does? You might look at the current exchanges on this forum and see members eagerly conversing with what appears to be an Artificial Intelligence 'bot, but over the years some of us have drilled pretty deeply into the story of these cars, the people and circumstances behind them and into their very fabric. I can think of few other open source platforms where this has been made available in the English language. Hopefully (!?) much of that still exists here and is - with effort - searchable for those who are curious and/or passionate enough to know. At the very least, put it out there before you can't. Pro Bono. Thanks.

You've pretty much answered your own question there. And when it comes down to it, we'd have to judge it as a success in those very marketing terms let alone anything else. The press loved it. The project caught the imagination and support of influential figures in the North American Z 'scene' - including the kind who insisted it was a first for a major manufacturer (it wasn't) and "unique" in the auto manufacturing world (it wasn't). Those same figures still vaunt it today. We've certainly discussed the topic here on classiczcars.com many times over the years and our fellow member @26th-Z wrote what I believe is the definitive essay on the VZ cars. It was - when all is all said and done - a big deal in the story of the Z car's mid-life crisis. But as is often the case, the hype and commentary from offstage created unrealistic expectations. The misleading term 'Factory Restoration' was thrown around a lot and many swallowed it whole, including members of the specialist press. The VZ cars often get judged as though they were intended to be 100% factory correct concours restorations when that was clearly never the case. You can see the same thing happening in the current BaT auction. LOL. Another bunch of answers to your "why are the Vintage Z valued so highly?" question in there. It's the kind of people appearing in that video - and mentioned in it - who are part of the hype. High profile figures in the old Z car world, but often too the Typhoid Mary-like spreaders of bad information. Whilst looking in the engine bay of a VZ car we get the words 'Nickel' and 'Cad' plating thrown around (its mostly Zinc...) and a false story about the commissioning of re-pop braided hoses (Nishi san of Revive Jalopy in Japan was responsible for this and for many other previously unobtainable parts too). We even see a modern fuel filter pointed at as though it is some kind of ancient relic. Some typical 'Mr K Lore' thrown in for good measure when discussing early cars/chassis numbers. Larry Chen asks "why is it that the US got the early cars and how come Japan didn't get the early numbers...?" and Jaffe's answer talks about the '240Z'. Japan did get early cars (they got them earlier than the US too...) but the problem here is the congenital misconception that the 'US 240Z' is something over and above the whole S30-series Z family as conceived, planned, designed, styled, engineered and produced before the end of 1969. To the point that anything else is some kind of afterthought. We get Katayama's "PUSH" related as a one-man quest to get 'his' project made rather than the more realistic scenario of him lobbying for influence on something that was already happening. Apparently Mr Carl Beck ('Z car encyclopaedia') "can tell you how many went to England, Australia and its all very limited...", but there's no mention of Japan in their 'Z car' story. You can look at pretty much any volume - and non-volume - selling sports car of the 60s and 70s period and see the same story; volume sales in the USA. But I've yet to see any Triumph, Austin-Healey, MG or Jaguar being vaunted as 'Made Expressly For The USA'. VW shipped just shy of 400,000 Type 1 Beetles into the USA in 1968 alone, so 'Made For The USA'? Mainland USA was the biggest single potential market for just about any product of the period concerned, but I would like to credit at least some US consumers as being sophisticated enough to see through all the "we made this for YOU" type sales slogans. So, why are the Vintage Z cars valued so highly? It's in large part due to the influence of the kind of people who had eight of them, and sold six of them to somebody who now has eight. Larry Chen will make a video about them! People listen, and look up to, movers and shakers like that. Our old BaT friend Larry Stepp (he's a BIG fan of the classiczcars forum) made a prediction the last time this current BaT auction VZ car was up for sale. He said it would be worth 250k USD in a few years. There's the hype. It's not so much to do with the physical details of the object (which is not too shabby, to say the least), it's the perceived kudos and status within a fairly small cohort of people who are looked up to as sooth-sayers and mystics. Buy "one of the 37" and - hey! - maybe you'll even get the pleasure of putting the hose clamps on 'the right way round'...

Both upper reds operate as side lights and brake lights.

No, the Japanese market parking light system has its own bulb in each rear lamp unit. It's the one that is otherwise blanked off with the 'P' plug/grommet in the centre of the lamp unit.

Nissan were caught out by changes to motor vehicle 'Construction & Use' regulations with regard to lighting for 1971-up in several European markets. Height from road level was particularly difficult to solve. The regulations even required changes to the illumination of the rear license plate. Of course such regulations applied to NEW cars and many private owners took the opportunity to move these aesthetically unpleasant front turn signals to a position UNDER the front bumper, or - even better - to revert to the configuration that the gods originally intended... A legacy of precedence. You may have heard of Mr James Watt? He found it necessary to use a unit of measurement in order to compare the power of steam engines to that of working horses. Of course he used the IMPERIAL system as METRIC horsepower didn't exist at that point, the Industrial Revolution not being a Continental phenomenon... You may also have heard of Sir Isaac NEWTON? That's him in your Nm measurement. (Posted from The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, a small place off the coast of mainland Europe which used to rule much of the world for a while... LOL)