HS30-H

Hi Gee and Halz, I was hoping it would take a bit longer for that issue to get published in your neck of the woods.......... I was misquoted! Honest! Actually, its been a salutary lesson in minding what you say and how you say it. Mick was writing things down as we chatted, but I certainly would not have said "240Z" when talking about all the first generation cars. And I certainly don't remember mentioning the name of Mr Burt Reynolds:ermm: He missed out one of the things we discussed at length, and I was really hoping he would point it out in an S30 / Z33 comparison. It was about the fact that the two models have mirror-image Handbrake Lever positionings; The S30 always had the lever on the RIGHT of the tunnel ( whether LHD or RHD ) and the Z33 always has it on the LEFT of the tunnel ( whether LHD or RHD ). I think this shows us something. We have discussed this ad nauseam on here - but I was hoping he'd point it out in the article. He didn't. Actually myself, Len Welch and Geoff Jackson were kind of an 'afterthought' addition to the article. The whole article was pretty much written and finished several months ago I believe. They borrowed the red 350Z from Nissan UK's press office along with their yellow 240Z press promotions car, and took them to Wales for photography. Nissan - I believe - had told them that they were the first to get the two press cars together for a magazine article, and C&SC would have an 'exclusive'. Then their rival 'Classic Cars' Magazine brought out their January 2004 issue with a Photoshopped version of Nissan UK's yellow 240Z ( they changed the colour and put the number of another car on it because they did not want two consecutive cover cars in yellow! ). So the C&SC article was put on the back-burner for a while. Mick then revived it and did a little bit of re-writing, plus the addition of the 'interviews' with the three of us. Mick didn't want to take a photo of the ZG that showed too much of it. He said he wanted to 'save' it for a full feature at a later date. I would have preferred NOT to have my photo taken, frankly! He made a few errors in the text, but I was very glad he made the point about Goertz and Matsuo - which was not from my prompting, by the way. He also made a point about that in his Editorial column elsewhere in the mag. What did you think of the comparisons he made between the two cars? I got the feeling that he didn't really rate either of them all that much, which was a pity. Cheers, Alan T.

Hi Kats, Does this mean that Seisan Shisaku #14 & #15 were HLS30-00014 and HLS30-00015? Or were the Seisan Shisaku cars not numbered? Or were they other ( lower? ) numbers of HLS30 bodies? There are lots of secondary questions that would lead on from your answer. I'm still confused about the quantity of cars that did the cold weather tests in USA & Canada. From the pictures I have seen, I can identify THREE different California registration tag numbers. Alan T.

Hi Oliver, When you say "European Spec" do you mean UK-market ( RHD ) or LHD continental European market? You say that you are trying to return your car to original spec, so I presume that you do not currently have the EGR stuff installed? What's the VIN, and can you provide any other data? If its a UK-market RS30 then the spec details can be very hard to pin down accurately for each individual car. I have seen all sorts of confusing anomalies on these cars. Cheers, Alan T.

Hi 26th-Z, I feel like I have to be careful when discussing the LHD cars, and especially careful when putting forward any thoughts that might be seen as the equivalent of blasphemy A couple of quotes from the article you mentioned jump out at me as worthy of question: *"According to Nissan Motors, they usually do not release any of the first twenty to twenty five cars produced, when starting the assembly of a completely new model". Well - this calls into question what Nissan would include in that first twenty to twenty five cars produced. We know that some very low number HS30 models made it out of the Factory and were sold to the General Public, and surely you would think that the difference between the LHD and RHD 'Export' models might be enough for Nissan to include some of the RHD Export models in that 'first 20~25'. Moreover, you would expect that the Domestic-Market models ( which we KNOW were produced in higher numbers than the LHD Export versions during 1969 ) would have to be included too - if not indeed getting their own 20~25 cars for R&D / crash testing etc. I would have thought that the Domestic cars could even be subdivided themselves ( between S30 and PS30 prefixes ) as they were different enough from eachother to warrant different post-build inspection and even different crash testing etc? I don't personally know any super low-number VINs for Japanese market cars, although I HAVE seen PS30-00013 in the metal ( it still exists ). *"Rumor has it that #00009 - #00015 were sent to Nissan Canada for cold weather testing. These cars were not completed production units - but rather were test mules." If these cars were numbered as quoted, then I wonder if they are the same cars that appear in the photos of the USA / Canada testing runs that we have discussed in the past. Those cars were very clearly not the same spec as the first of the production models that were delivered to the public for sale, and not even - seemingly - the same spec as nos 00007, 00008 & 00009 which still exist and are well known in the USA? There is some conflict in this information. I agree with you that if Nissan quoted HLS30-00013 in the R-Drive book that there is a very good chance it made it outside the Factory - and may have been sold to the general public. Certainly if you cross-reference this with the fact that HS30-00003 is quoted in the R-Drive parts book for the RHD Export cars, and we know that this car was indeed sold to the general public, then it might well hold true. Our "Part Number One" discussion still fascinates me. I agree that a 'White Body' or spare bodyshell WITHOUT a stamped VIN number would have to be classified as a spare part, but spare unused bodies WITH complete VIN numbers DID make it outside the Factory. In some respects, I find myself unable to shake off the feeling that such a bodyshell has a firm identity and needs to be included in our discussions - if only to establish that such a number existed. Alan T.

Sorry - I don't think I can be of much help on this one. I can give you part numbers from the Nissan R-DRIVE parts books, but not specific details on what was fitted when, or what side the tuning knobs were on for each particular market. However, its clear from the parts books that there were 4 different radios for the early cars ( two types of Auto-Tuning version, one ordinary 5-button and one AM-FM especially for Europe ) and also two versions of the combined radio / 8 Track tape player....... All of the above were listed as 'Optional Equipment' for the UK / European market. I'm sorry - I don't know what Hitachi model numbers the above-mentioned part numbers relate to. I don't have that data. I don't even have one of the push-button radios for the ZG. I have the original radio / 8 Track - but its not installed in the car - its buried deep inside my garages somewhere - so I'm afraid I can't confirm on which side the tuning knob is located. Do you think they really made RHD and LHD versions? I can type out those part numbers if you think it might help - but I don't know what you are going to cross-ref them with? Alan T.

Yes - the Nissan 'R DRIVE' parts books are really useful and informative. The question is - just how accurate are the numbers they show for engines and body numbers? If you believe the one for the 'Export' HS30 ( RHD model 240Z ) then HS30-00003 was "from Oct-69".......... Here's a scan of the relevant page:

Hi 26th-Z, An S30S is Z Genesis S30S = "ZS" = Z Standard. Your basic 'cooking' Z. No carpet, no hubcaps, no bumper trim, no rear demist, no clock, no radio, no frills, no mention on zhome.com ( poor thing ). You didn't take my bait about the L20 engine having no VIN prefix denomination letter. Spoilsport. Maybe you knew what was coming. :tapemouth

Maybe this is getting back to the 'philosophical' slant to the original thread, but I just can't bring myself to accept that when that 'OK' sticker hit the window is when the car was 'born'...... Personally, I tend to think of the real 'birth' of the car somewhere further back up the line. Don't know where exactly, but sometime around when it got its own unique VIN / body number combination is - I feel - when it at least started to become an individual car. 'Course, it wasn't a whole car at that time.......

What model got the "HR" prefix? There was no letter designation for the L20 engine. Guess why. VIN prefixes for Japanese-market cars were as follows: S30 ( for S30 / S30A / S30S / S30SA ) PS30 ( for PS30 and PS30SB ) HS30 ( for HS30 / HS30S / HS30A / HS30SA / HS30H / HS30HA ) .....and then RS30 / GRS30 / and S31 etc etc.

Lachlan, You are misinterpreting it, mate. He's making the point that its NOT the usual GT-R replica, but that its a GENUINE GT-R. Its a corker isn't it? Alan T.

I don't know that much about the HLS30 cars, that's all. I don't know very much about the Technical Service Bulletins for the USA / North American market either. At least not as much as some of the posters on this thread. Better to ask one of them. I reckon its a typo or just a plain mistake. I've never heard of two production lines or two production runs. As far as I am aware, there was only one production line and whether a car was Automatic transmission or not was NOT discernible from the VIN number - they were just given body numbers in sequence with all the others in their same VIN prefix group. Alan T.

Hi Lachlan, U in HLS30U = USA. Or at least USA and Canada. Or North America....... You've not seen that before? Nissan had a code for all our cars. Sometimes more than one. Yes - I go into Autoresponse mode with regard to the ZG.:classic: Alan T.

You mean Mr K's car? That car was / is NOT a ZG. Please don't call it the "American marketing version of the ZG". I have no idea - other than the fact that it was once Mr. K's personal transport - why NMC USA chose to use it for promotional purposes. As far as I understand it, the car was a standard HLS30U and some other parts were added privately, including wire wheels. Whether the front end parts were genuine Factory parts or not - putting them onto a car does not automatically make that car a ZG. Only Nissan could make a genuine ZG. If a car left the Factory as a genuine ZG then - theoretically - you could take all the ZG-specific parts off it, and it would STILL be a ZG. That process does not work in reverse. Alan T.

Hi Gav, That car was at the Club S30 / S30 Owners Club joint meeting at Sagamiko Picnic Land in Kanagawa which I attended late last year. I took some photos of it and put them in the Gallery section for that event: http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7784&password=&sort=7&thecat=551 http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7802&password=&sort=7&thecat=551 http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7803&password=&sort=7&thecat=551 http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7796&password=&sort=7&thecat=551 http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7804&password=&sort=7&thecat=551 I believe the owner's name is Mr Sato ( first name Tatsuya? ) and he's a member of the S30 Owners Club - if I remember correctly. He's using lots of Kameari Engine Works parts ( full counterweighted crank with LD28 stroke, Kameari steel rods with ARP bolts, Kameari pistons, Kameari camshaft, Kameari adjustable cam gear, Kameari twin idler cam tensioner ). That American damper he's using is made by ATI. His engine management is a MOTEC system supplied and modified by AVO ( AVO are a Japanese tuning company ). I believe his head is a welded and recut N42. He's had a few blow-ups, but he hasn't let it get the better of him. He's doing a good job. He's done a lot of the work himself, and the rest of the car is pretty trick too. It certainly drew admiring looks at Sagamiko. Cheers, Alan T.

Here's one from the other side:

That's not supposed to be a 'web-page' as such. Its just a free place to store photos online and link to them - which can be useful sometimes. I don't normally send people there without a reason to do so. I don't think of it as my Homepage or anything like that.... Yes - the baffles / ducts in the lower pan of the G Nose were an attempt to channel air more efficiently for the air conditioning systems. The first run of HS30-H's never had them ( my car is one of these ) so you could think of them as early / late - or 'Series 1' / 'Series 2' if you like. The baffles / ducts were made from FRP ( not aluminium or steel, as some people seem to think ) and were attached to the lower pan by nuts and bolts. Here are a couple of pics of a real ZG in Japan, in a rare state of undress. They are useful for showing the shape / form of the genuine lower panel as it is when attached to the car:

.....Elbow Grease.:classic:

Hi Kats, That's very interesting. Thank you especially for showing Osawa san's report on the North American tests. I noted a couple of things from his report; *He refers to the "U team", and I presume this means the USA team or the team from Nissan Shatai that conducted the tests? *Does he write that the test ENDED on 2nd October 1969, or that it STARTED on that date? I can't make it out. He also seems to mention a period of three months for the test ( and 20,000 km? ) which does not add up - or am I misreading / misinterpreting it? *Does he state that they sent an improved CAR ( a whole car ) to Canada on 20th December, or just improved PARTS? Again, I could be misreading / misinterpreting it? *I notice that he does not actually write "240Z" anywhere on his report. However, at the beginning of the report summary he mentions the "main market" for the car ( reference to the USA / Canada market ) - so he must be talking about the HLS30U. Seeing as the USA / Canada test cars had NO emblems on them whatsoever ( as far as I can see ) do you think this means that even when Osawa san was writing his report, they still had not finalised / agreed the "240Z" nomenclature for the 'Export' version? Alan T.

Hi Ben, You know about the Australian-built Z on this year's Safari - so no need to tell you about that - but the other one was UK-built ( by Duncan Pearcey of "The Z Farm" ) and I don't think it had any Works parts on it. The drop-bumpers ( also known as "Monte Carlo" bumpers ) are indeed very rare. I don't know of a genuine one in current use on a Historic Rally privateer Z. Certainly the one on the UK-built Safari car was not a genuine Works or Option drop bumper. If I remember correctly, the car driven on the Historic Monte this year by Tony Fall and Mike Kempley actually belongs to Mike Kempley. I don't think it has any Works parts on it ( as far as I remember ) and the drop bumper is a home-made item. Tony Fall has his own - UK-built - Historic Rally 240Z ( another red one, but with the black bonnet ) but he didn't drive it on this year's Historic Monte. He drove Mike Kempley's car instead. As far as I remember, anyway. Alan T.

I was told - when I was living in Japan, and by a gent who used to work for Nissan at the time we are talking about - that the door jamb plates of the USA-market Export cars were not actually applied at the Factory. He said that he thought they were stamped and attached at Honmoku Wharf ( Nissan's export freight terminal in Yokohama ). That's one of the reasons I think they are not to be taken as 'gospel' truth; You can imagine that even if nobody was tempted to 'play' with figures ( conspiracy theory ) there would still be a good chance of them messing up numbers and not applying them 100% accurately ( ****-up theory ). Maybe even both......... I've had the feeling for a while now that we don't have the full facts about these door jamb tags. Reading the story about your particular car, I'd almost be tempted to believe that they could have even been stamped and attached to the car in the USA. But then what do I know?

That's good to hear, St.stephen. My offer of help still stands. If I can be of any use, please let me know. I'll try my best to help him. Cheers, Alan T.

Maybe they have a natural aversion to the Handbrake Lever ( sorry, E-Brake handle ). While you are looking at it, ask the cigar / cigarette lighter why its on the right side of the centreline on your LHD car. To compensate for enormously long American arms, or possibly a subliminal 'Quit Smoking' sign? Don't worry, I'm kidding too...........

Kats, Is the document you are referring to the 'Jidosha Kensa Sho'? I have copies of these for both of my Japanese-market cars ( on import to the UK the Jidosha Kensa Sho and Japanese 'De-Registration' documents have to be presented to our vehicle licensing authority, along with an authorised translation of them. Both of mine state clearly the Model Type ( in my case, one S30 and one HS30 ) and full 'Shatai Bango' ( full VIN number ). Is yours different, then? Alan T.

Hi Kats, I think that's pretty much what I am doing - and enjoying doing it too. I don't actually expect to get an accurate date and time for the 'birth' of each car, but its interesting and fun trying to get close to it. That's why I originally described this as a "Philosophical" discussion............... Alan T.

Hi Joseph, Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick there. Mind you - if HS30-00004 was elsewhere before coming to Australia, I'd really like to know WHERE it was and WHAT it was doing there. It might be an important part of the jigsaw puzzle. I'm sure that Nissan were testing some HS30's just before official exports of them began. It would be very interesting if we could prove that one or more HS30's were being used in Japan for R+D purposes. Cheers, Alan T.