newbzee

front suspension and tire clearance problem

    Recommended Posts

    I'll use a carpenters square.  Its actually concrete and if you look at the top bubble its pretty level.  If you look at the area were the tube inserts, its seems consistent with the level and then just at the collar it seems to bend to the right.  I'll give it another go.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Did you just disassemble the one side? If it were me i would take them both off and compare them against each other. You need a point of reference ie. the other strut, since it clears.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I understand what your saying but I really think with the experience of those helping tearing in even deeper isn't something I'm interested in just yet.  There is definitely an issue with the one side and I feel  pretty confident the other side is correct based on crude camber measurements and overall clearance.  I think as suggested we are down to a fix group of culprits.  If I need to tear the other side apart I will but I would need some specific comparisons that can't be obtained while it's together to do so.

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    You've done it right and even if there is a little wiggle as it sits on that block, I think you can still see that the strut tube is no longer at a 90 degree angle to it's base.  

    I have installation instruction photos on our website that show the relationship of the strut tube to the milled bottom surface of the hub where it bolts to the steering arm and ball joint - it's perpendicular in every case for the front strut assemblies.

    You can't do this same thing with the rear strut tube, but it's angle of inclination in relation to the mounting surface of the wheel is measurable and verifiable as well. 

    Edited by cgsheen1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    You really should pull the other side too so you can clean up both sides and paint.

    Rotor backing plates too. You went this far. Why not get things looking good.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    You should to pull the other side to check it too. You have to replace both ball joints anyway. If that tube was bent in an accident you need to see what other damage happened. I've seen a lot of damage to our Z race cars but the strut tubes have never bent. Check your upper and lower frames, strut towers, etc. for any damage.

    Did the tire rub when you started this project? If not, why does it now?

    I might have a strut assy. Left side?

    Chuck

     

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Let me provide some history so we all have them same baseline.  I was finishing up a project (1971 Porsche 911) and was looking for another project.  My Wife said she would only agree if it were a 240z because that was her HS car.  I found this car for $300.  A kid bought it as a project and it was too much.  The car ran and moved under it's own power but was not in any condition to drive.  I think I've welded more metal into this car than it came with.  The entire car was disassembled and new floors, floor rails, and front frame rails welded in.  I'm very sure the car had damage to that side based on these efforts.  I used data points from the FSM when fixing the car so it's pretty straight.  Perfect, no, but pretty straight.  So, seeing this doesn't surprise me, just annoys me because I missed it, but thats part of having a project.  Maybe it was a hidden problem and the car was out of wack and it's showing up now after making repairs?  I'm not sure , I'm definitely going to pull the other side apart but I have a small shop area and at this point it doesn't effect repairing this side.  I've had the entire front suspension and cross member out with the engine, and everything went back in easily after repairs so I'm hopeful this is the last problem from what ever happened.

    Yes Chuck, Front Left side.

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    The way that tube is used with today's shock inserts is different from how Nissan designed it to be used.  I've had the thought a person could drill that tube pretty severely for weight reduction, because it's role with a shock insert is changed to providing compression on the shock insert.  When you have the insert in and the gland nut tight, the assembly is a double wall tube, with the inner wall compressed and the outer wall under tension.

    If you can figure out where it bent or if the casting is deformed at the base you'd have a better idea of if it can be fixed.  Replace it if you can find one but don't rule out fixing what you have.  Look at some of the "coilover" setups out there and you'll see that people do all kinds of things to these strut tubes, from no basis in education or experience.  And they seem to survive.  Not referring to you and Sakura Garage cg, just saying that the problem is not as complex as it seems.  It's just a metal tube that needs to be perpendicular to the casting base.  The loads it sees are not enormous and the shock insert adds strength.  

    If the straightening effort doesn't work you won't have lost anything.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Had a very similar thought this morning after looking at a couple of coiler sites.  I was going to see what I can come up with this afternoon, with the same understanding that I really have nothing to loose at this point.  If the bend is high enough I could sleeve it, if too low, I could add a gusset.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Ok so heres some additional findings.  I took the strut apart and it already had an inert.  I think the reason I was able to get some clearance earlier is because the gland nut wasn't very tight and the insert had a little free play.  I've attached another picture and it appears the bend is at the base, not in the base, just above the collar.  So how to straighten?  The power of Hercules is not within me and there is no good way to leverage the spindle/wheel area.  I could get leverage at the tube by putting the inset back in or a pipe, no clue on the over part.  Another thought would be to use the tree falling approach and put a relief cut on the side I want to bend towards which would close the cut if I can bend it and provide an easier weld.  Someone managed to get it bend this far into shape so it has to be possible.

    IMG_0073.JPG

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    A wooden wedge here, perhaps with a circular cutout to avoid kinking the tube, might push it outward.  Put the flat base back on your brick and pound the wedge in.  Looks like about 2x4 size.

    image.png

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    2 hours ago, newbzee said:

    So how to straighten?  The power of Hercules is not within me and there is no good way to leverage the spindle/wheel area.  I could get leverage at the tube by putting the inset back in or a pipe, no clue on the over part.  Another thought would be to use the tree falling approach and put a relief cut on the side I want to bend towards which would close the cut if I can bend it and provide an easier weld. 

    Buy...

    Another...

    Strut...

    Housing!!!!

     

    C'mon man!!!   LOL   And I thought I spent a ridiculous amount of time on things that I never should have done in the first place.

    It was tweaked. Enough to exceed the plastic deformation rating of the material. It'll never be the same again. Buy another strut housing!!!

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    You...

    Are...

    Missing...

    The...

    Point...

    CO

    Really surprising since you're the guy that likes to fix broken things.  Replacing things without understanding how they work makes me cringe.  If you understand it and you can make it do what it's supposed to do, then fixing it is fine.  Replacing without understanding is kind of lazy, if you have the time to learn.  Surprised at your comment, and the way you made it.  It has the period!, game-set-match! tone.  Eewww...

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    LOL. Yeah, I know. Far be it for me to suggest that someone else is doing something like that.

    In my defense, however... My understanding is that everyone seems to be in agreement that it's bent. I thought the "understanding" part of the problem was already over and we had moved to the "what to do about it?" part.

    If that's not the case, and a definitive cause for the lack of clearance to the tire has not yet figured out yet, then carry on!     LOL

    However, if that strut tube has been bent, then my humble opinion is that I think replacing instead of trying to bend back is the proper course of action.

     

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    It's just the outer case of a shock absorber.  The loads are small, relatively speaking.  The rest of the parts take up the extreme loads. 

    We are in the "what to do about it" part.  If you can make a case for how it might fail after a fix attempt that would be informative.  I think it will be about like it was before after bending back, probably stiffer.  Barring another curb shot, it will be fine.

    image.png

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Hey I really appreciate everyones input and if buying a replacement is the answer I'm fine with that but other than time, messing with this part only give me knowledge.  So here is where I'm at, I got the house fairly perpendicular but had to made 2 relief cuts to do it.  The insert still fits but is a little snug near those cuts.  So realistically I would need one more a little lower to help the rest of the way.  Welding these up is not an issue.  The main issue was the tweak was only about an inch above where the tube goes into the spindle.  Once I cleaned it up and put a straight edge flat to that area it was easy to see.  So, thoughts?

    IMG_0074.JPG

    IMG_0075.JPG

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Put the shock in and see how it all fits with the gland nut clamped down.  You might have been able to make one small cut and had it all correct once it was clamped together.  Didn't realize you were going with big cuts like that.

    You're kind of at the point where only your opinion matters.  If somebody can point out a safety issue they should, otherwise it's aesthetics.

    A thought popped in to my head before - if the part was easily replaceable, this conversation probably wouldn't be happening.  But I'll bet your car could be down quite a while if you wait for a front strut to show up somewhere.  Beside the cost.  Good luck.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I really had no choice to get it in position.  It wasn't going to bend w/o a tremendous amount of force.  Kind of like buying a 18" pice of 1.5 pipe from Home Depot and thinking your going to bend it.  my thought process was people are taking whole sections out to lower their car or do a coiler conversion so this is really no different and I still have about 1/3 of the pipe intact.  Since it's not 100% my gut is telling me to source a replacement but I may base the decision on how it welds up.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    If you're committed to this path, make sure it's perpendicular in both (all) planes.  Did your inboard/outboard repositioning affect the forward/aft position of the tube?

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I haven't done a coil over project, but I thought they used a slip over collar and did a lap joint. I think that would be better. Can you slip a collar over the slits after you weld them up and then weld the collar in place?

    I think that could buy you some time while you looked for a replacement.

    Another hurdle / test will be when it hits the alignment rack.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now