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gotham22

Rust Advice 78 280z

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Wanted to thank everyone here for helping me out.  I am a true novice and I could never have gotten to the point I am at today without your help.  I reached a big milestone today!  Engine is out!!!

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Two Questions:

1) What is the best way to remove the tension rod mount without damaging it so it can later be welding on to the new frame rail?

2) I bought a new frame rail and floor support from zed findings but I don't see how the floor support will attach to the tension rod mount? It doesn't have the piece I circled in red.  Is this something I need to fabricate myself?  Does anyone have a good picture of how this should look when I am done?  

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20 hours ago, gotham22 said:

Two Questions:

1) What is the best way to remove the tension rod mount without damaging it so it can later be welding on to the new frame rail?

2) I bought a new frame rail and floor support from zed findings but I don't see how the floor support will attach to the tension rod mount? It doesn't have the piece I circled in red.  Is this something I need to fabricate myself?  Does anyone have a good picture of how this should look when I am done?  

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See if you can find what you need in Wheee!'s thread. If not let us know and we will come up with some info.

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Hey guys, now that I have the engine and transmission out I have been thinking about what I should do to it as I am hoping to never have it out of the car again.  I have owned the car for a few years and never had an issue with the engine.  I did a compression test before I removed it and got good readings.  So I am not sure there is anything I "have" to do. Here is what I want to do... replace hoses -especially some of the vacuum hoses which are becoming brittle.  I need new fuel injector wires as the rubber is brittle and falling off.  I would love to re-zinc the fuel rail as it looks terrible.  Re-torque the head bolts and adjust valve lash. Replace clutch.

Based on the pics I have a few questions.  I know some of these are just a matter of preference but while I have the engine out I want to do it right. And my goal is to make the a reliable weekend driver.

The exhaust manifold looks pretty rusty.  Is this something I can restore or should I look to replace?

Do the gaskets need to be replaced, you can see some oil stains on the header and valve areas?

Should I replace the fuel injectors?

The pulleys seem pretty rusted, these can be restored though right?

Does anyone know where I can find a new heat shield that fits under the egr valve?

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If you are already at it...might as well give the whole thing a cosmetic make over.

rust can easily be removed with naval jelly or vinegar , get a couple of gallons at the market and soak parts in it for a couple of days, its not as fast as other rust removing products...but its cost effective. you can also use muriatic acid diluted with water  but its nasty stuff.

Treat the parts with phosphoric acid prior to painting.

muriatic acid can be found at home depot in pool supply, phosphoric acid at the paint department.both are reasonably priced.

PS: you might want to check your timing chain, I find that most are badly stretched.

 

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I like the ceramic header from MSA.  They really cut down the under hood heat.  I have them on both my Zs.

You can paint most of your rusted stuff after removing the rust.  Pulleys, motor mounts etc.  I used a high heat clear satin on my injector hold down plates and a few other no paint parts.

Anything you get rust off of will need protecting especially if you use muriatic acid.  That stuff is mean but it works great.  Neutralize it with baking soda and water until you coat it.  It will flash rust in front of your eyes, within minutes literally. 

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The rust on the exhaust manifold is thick stuff, sand blasting is best method and the fresh metal is perfect for header/manifold paint. All the other methods for rust removal work well enough on surface rust but exhaust manifolds are different, most media blasting shops will do it for $20

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Guys, thanks for the info.  Really appreciate it.  I do like the idea of ceramic headers. Need to wrestle with the idea of changing it from stock.  Did you do the whole exhaust from MSA?

Tzagi1 thanks for the info about the timing chain.  

Now if the wife would just let me work on the car!  Ha!  

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Yes I do have their premium 2.5" exhaust.  It works great with the header but on the lower 240 with 15" wheels and tires it scrapes coming in and out of my garage.  The straight pipe connects to the bent one with those bolt together flanges, that's what barely scrapes.  My local muffler guy said he could cut and weld them together for more clearance.  I've learned to keep it from scraping until I build up some disposable cash for that small job.  My 280 with 16" wheels and tires has plenty of clearance but it rides with stock springs and struts.

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Edited by siteunseen
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Yeahhhh... my project was a quick $10,000 refresh that would take a year...

4 years and a lot more money to go later..!

 

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Mr.gotham22:

I admire your youthful enthusiasm and gritty determination. I hope it is enough.

Given the shots of the car at the curb, I can understand your hopefulness. Regardless of how it looks under the new paint, it looks like any shiney side issues will wait well enough. Just be careful of your working heats.

While it is not my intention to deal in discouraging words, I will, in the name of reality checks, note that your biggest handicap is not the rust, but the lack of a secure enclosed work space. If there is a garage on the premises, commandeer it; the wife will probably understand. If not, try to make some arrangement with a neighbor. At the very least, build an 8'x10' shed to hold your tools (a few small things like a bench grinder and a place to paint will make a difference) and keep vital parts from "disappearing". Plus, winter is coming and enough said about that.

Another suggestion: buy a large blue tarp to go over the cushion of the car cover. The tarp will give better weather protection (winter, remember) and make the cover last longer. Plus, you can get a better "wrap" from prying eyes.

One more: You might think about some concrete pavers as a make-shift "floor" for the body that would be above the ground water and snow.

Practical ideas:

I would suggest that the engine should be stripped down to the long block to allow the extensive re-conditioning obviously required for all the vital systems/plumbing on the engine (opening the distributor should be interesting). Plus, you'll need to replace the manifold gaskets anyway.

The fix for the broken exh. manifold studs (at each/either end) will probably require removing the head to do it right.

Note: the best repair for broken studs (head, manifold-tailpipe joint, etc.) is a careful drill-out, in steps of larger bits, to the point just shy of the threads. Done carefully, one can then just peel the stud threads out, leaving the body threads intact. Be wary of easy-outs; when they break, they are worse to drill out than the original bolt/stud.

Have you got a Factory Shop Manual yet?

Seriously; Good Luck. The rest is up to you and the good folks on this site.

 

 

 

Edited by ensys

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Ensys, thanks for the kind words and advice. I agree with you that my biggest issue is work space.  Won't even get into details how I got the engine out and car moved without a front  suspension on a gravel driveway.  I do have a garage but not that I can get the car into.  Previous home owners built a porch and planted trees so it is a big shed now.  But that's god news as at least I have a workshop.

 

Funny, this all started because I wanted to just change some rubber bushings on the front suspension! No intention to do a "refresh".  This weekend I have time to practice welding some scraps.  

 

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I have an old set of 1978 injectors that looked worse than those.  They sat on the non-running engine for 10 years.  They guy I bought the car from had gotten the engine running before I bought it for parts so I don't know what state the fuel system had been in .

I tested the injector flow rates later and they were all dead even.  They opened and closed fine, nice solid clicks.  I ran them on the engine for quite a while.  I would just put new hoses on those old crusty injectors and use them.  If you decide to clean them up don't get any moisture inside, at all.  The metal inside is only meant to see gasoline and will rust quickly if any water gets in there.  

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Injectors do not go bad generally. They can sit for a long time. if you feel like performing some maintenance you can A: clean them using a sonic tub (can be found around $10 online) or B: back flush them, the do have a tiny filter inside (replaceable) As to the back flushing you will need the body of a 10cc syringe and carb cleaner, see here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJlTfHyrUk I do have to credit the krout engineers on that one, they did come up with a perfect design 50 years ago that serves us faithfully to this day.

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All:

Well, if anecdotal evidence is going to supersede responsible prudence, I will tell my story.

My Z's mechanicals were in very good condition, outside and in. But the soft parts were old after 200K. mi., and refreshing the engine included full hose changes. Since they were on the bench, I naturally checked them and found that their volumes and patterns varied some, making a simple cleaning a no brainer. The operation was brief (in relative terms) and successful.

Sidebar Note: Yes, I should have mentioned the need to "backflush" the internal wire screen (which, at the time and in retrospect, seemed a better idea than trying to remove/replace same). It was the last step of the clean cycle (which pointedly excluded H2O, of course), which had removed nearly all the trapped matter. This final step was accomplished by powering the valve open and applying low power compressed air back up the orifice. This was followed with a final "frontflush" with cleaner.

I believe you stated that you wanted this to be the last time you wanted to do a major service on your engine, which has had a full life already... in someone else's hands... with who knows what kind of maintenance (including filters, condition of the tank, etc.). In short, its a crapshoot situation.

I believe you owe it to yourself to be as thorough as you can within the given parameters.

Or not. Your dice.

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, ensys said:

All:

Well, if anecdotal evidence is going to supersede responsible prudence, I will tell my story.

Words-wise, you're saying that we've all been irresponsible,and imprudent, with our injector stories.  Not sure that's what you intended.

Nonetheless,  the old rusty injectors could very well be fine.  It's the guts that matter.

 

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Mr.Head:

Word-wise, what I intended was:

"responsible", as in "to one's self"

"prudence", as in "taking the time to do it right the first time is always cheaper than making the time to do it over"

And you're right: "could" is the guts of that matter.

To each his own of course, but I tend to believe that gambling with the results of one's work, is generally a lazy sucker's bet.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, ensys said:

I tend to believe that gambling with the results of one's work, is generally a lazy sucker's bet.

Man, I don't know what this means, as a whole or in parts.  Only "lazy suckers do their own work, and doing so is a gamble"?  

Are you recommending that he has somebody else do the work? Or that he buy new parts?  Or that he does the work himself?  You told an anecdote about doing the work yourself, yourself.  Were you saying that you made a mistake in trusting yourself, or that you only trust your own work?

Not kidding.  I like to leave a little puzzle behind myself sometimes, but I can't tell what your message is.

My message was - leave the insides of the injectors alone they've been fine all this time.

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