Redwing

Somethings wrong...

    Recommended Posts

    And if it is still the original CAT there should be a heat shield over it. If you have that then more than likely you have one. I know for a fact that a rich running Z wil,l over a short period of time, destroy a cat. Ask me how I know. Iv'e gone through 2 in the last 7 years.

    Edited by rcb280z

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    So if it won't start now, have you checked for spark and fuel?  If a fuel pump fails, it could go slowly like your describing.  Check the very basics first. 

    Sorry to ask, but your gas gauge works and you do have fuel in the car?  My wife called me one day after I had just replaced the battery and says it won't start. I get there and she has a business card over the gas gauge and the car was out.  I was not happy!

    Edited by JSM

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I don't think anything exhaust related. I have had a plugged muffler. Its not like these symtons.

    Its another electrical/ignition issue or fuel pump issue I personally think.

    Did you take a mirror underneath to look at the G3 filter that was installed.

    You have only put less than 3000 miles on the car since it was repaired. Tune ups not necessary.

    Finding issue - necessary.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    On 1/29/2017 at 9:48 PM, Zed Head said:

    There's a "pre-muffler" that looks like a converter.  It's there to cancel out droning from the exhaust system.  Looks like a converter but it's not.  There should be a sticker.

    A clogged muffler would be like a clogged converter though.  So maybe...

    RedBird started! My neighbor came over today and had a look at her. First off, asked me to try to start her. After that was a success, we pulled the plugs and I photoed them. We determined she does not have a catalytic converter, and the exhaust has plenty of flow exiting it. No chance it is plugged. He went under the gas tank and checked the G3 filter, and it was crystal clear, no debris or discoloration in it. Noted that the gas tank has a small leak. Not dripping to the ground, very slow. Apparently coming from the black hose nipple, or perhaps there is a pinhole leak. He heard the fuel pump working, but said it possibly could run slower as length of driving time run, if it is going bad, causing car to stop. I guess I'll start driving again now that she is running again, and if she stops and won't start, call the tow truck. We can look for more gremlins then.   BTW, there are no mice living  In the air filter.

    I think that is all to report. I'll write again if I forgot something. The photos are following, spark plugs and under gas tank showing leak.

    Please give me your opinions of what I have reported. All ideas are welcome.

    Jai

    20170130_180108_1485827251692.jpg

    20170130_183503_1485827350551.jpg

    20170130_183448.jpg

    Edited by Redwing

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Dude, there are few absolutes with running old cars, but one of them is -Absolutely no Fuel leaks!- Get those rotten fuel lines replaced ASAP! 

    This is a fire waiting to happen, and then all your fun will be over.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Dude.  Jai's not a dude.

    Those plugs are very fouled.  I'd install new plugs, take it for a good drive, make sure it gets nice and warmed up, then pull them and see how dirty they are.  Looks like it's running very rich though, unless you're burning oil.  Does it use much oil?  They really should never get that dirty unless there's a problem.  A short test run on new plugs will give you a good clue though.

    tx is right about the leak.  At least you know it's hose-based.  Those are both low pressure hoses, one is 5/16" and I think that 3/8" works on the other.  The 5/16" is a good fit, the other is a bit tight, if I remember right.

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I'm still in the full tune-up camp. It's the only way to figure out if anything else is a problem.  Hoses definitely need replacement, especially the red one.  

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    second what ZH said. Plugs give an excellent insight as to what is going on in an engine. new ones in, drive around for a while, check and see how they look.

     

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    2 hours ago, Zed Head said:

    Dude.  Jai's not a dude.

    Those plugs are very fouled.  I'd install new plugs, take it for a good drive, make sure it gets nice and warmed up, then pull them and see how dirty they are.  Looks like it's running very rich though, unless you're burning oil.  Does it use much oil?  They really should never get that dirty unless there's a problem.  A short test run on new plugs will give you a good clue though.

    tx is right about the leak.  At least you know it's hose-based.  Those are both low pressure hoses, one is 5/16" and I think that 3/8" works on the other.  The 5/16" is a good fit, the other is a bit tight, if I remember right.

    ZedHead,

    Thank you for un-dudeing me.  Hahaha!    :D

    Yes Redbird uses oil, with no dripping, nothing showing on any part of the engine.  My neighbor Michael, who went all over her yesterday looking for anything that might be amiss, could not see anything indicating oil loss.  His comment on her engine was "you should be proud of this engine, it is so clean".  Another :D:P.   And "for a 40 year old car, she is so great, and nice".  We all knew that tho, I feel so fortunate to have been blessed with this specific car.    :D:PROFL

    Ok, next question is about the hoses on the gas tank.  How do they get replaced?  Is it a monumental job, please tell all.  

    Thank you everyone, for looking out for me!

    Jai

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    easy but messy. beside gas pouring all over you while you do it, sometimes the hoses can be hard and difficult to remove (leak yes remove not so easy).

    Also its hard to get at them since the car is so low.

    So best bet is let someone do it for you, the process is get the car jacked up at the rear, using whatever make you feel safe, and protect the car from clumsy jack points. After you get some working room, remove and discard those hose clamps, use a utilty knife to slice hose (not finger) lengthwise along the connection to the tank, this will allow the hose to be removed without undo stress to the tank. then new hoses, with good fuel clamp, I prefer the stock kind or fuel injector kind, any thing that does not chew into the hose.

    Its not hard but for the access and mess. I have a new lines on hand and ready to install quickly to minimize the mess. Have some rags handy and a fire extinguisher near by.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    On 1/30/2017 at 3:12 AM, JSM said:

    So if it won't start now, have you checked for spark and fuel?  If a fuel pump fails, it could go slowly like your describing.  Check the very basics first. 

    Sorry to ask, but your gas gauge works and you do have fuel in the car?  My wife called me one day after I had just replaced the battery and says it won't start. I get there and she has a business card over the gas gauge and the car was out.  I was not happy!

    Sorry about your wife and no gas.  Yes the Guage works in RedBird, and she does have gas.  Good question tho, thanks.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Just now, Dave WM said:

    easy but messy. beside gas pouring all over you while you do it, sometimes the hoses can be hard and difficult to remove (leak yes remove not so easy).

    Also its hard to get at them since the car is so low.

    So best bet is let someone do it for you, the process is get the car jacked up at the rear, using whatever make you feel safe, and protect the car from clumsy jack points. After you get some working room, remove and discard those hose clamps, use a utilty knife to slice hose (not finger) lengthwise along the connection to the tank, this will allow the hose to be removed without undo stress to the tank. then new hoses, with good fuel clamp, I prefer the stock kind or fuel injector kind, any thing that does not chew into the hose.

    Its not hard but for the access and mess. I have a new lines on hand and ready to install quickly to minimize the mess. Have some rags handy and a fire extinguisher near by.

    Will doing this with a tank nearly out of gas be of help?  Nope, not a job for me personally, thanks.

    Another question....

    To do a full tune up, do the spark plug wires get replaced?  The ones in her have not been there that long.   I have on hand a new oil filter and fuel filter.  So I need plugs, rotor and dist. cap?  Anything else, besides oil natch?  When looking in engine bay yesterday, the air filter was checked.  It did not look anywhere near bad, just a little dust on parts of it.  Would this need to be replaced too?  Trying to figure the finances of this event.

    Thanks all...

    Ja

     

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    From Autozone:

    NGK copper plugs  2.19 ea X 6 = 13.00

    Dist cap                                         15.00

    Rotor                                               5.29

    Plug wires:  Duralast-23.00  NGK-50.00

    The dist cap and plug wires can be much cheaper at Rockauto.com

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Wires will be fine, same with rotor cap, those last a very long time. I am sure the problems the plugs, how they got that way and how long it took is the issue.

    I check wires by looking at them with the engine running at night, look for arcing to the engine. If they don't do that AND if the look in good shape then the are prob fine.

    inspecting the rotor cover is easy look for carbon tracks and crack if none, its ok.

    Diagnosing the issue is the way to determine what needs to be fixed or replaced. No points on the electronic ign, should be ok unless you are getting a weak spark, which is easy to test (look at spark while cranking is it strong?) so if that is good then move on to mixture issue (if dry fouled). New plugs and a quick reading will confirm dry foul or oil fouled. If dry fouled and ign ruled out then its a mixture issue (assuming air filer is good) next up would be to find out why mixture is out. Could be a leaking CSV, fuel pressure, injector or a temp sensor, TPS, ECU or wiring.

    if oil fouled could be oil control rings, valve oil seals, valve guides.

    What you don't want to do is start replacing stuff hoping to find the issue. Replacing stuff just add variables that have to be considered (was the replacement done right). saw the post above, if you want to replace to be sure, that is ok since $ is so low, just not how I do it. when I say look in good shape that is a subjective term, if you don't have a lot of exp with evaluating then its prob safer to replace, but after replacing I would expect them to last for at least a few years.

     

     

     

     

    Edited by Dave WM

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    On 1/18/2017 at 1:32 AM, 240260280 said:

    I wonder if the distributor or ignition system has a fault? Spark scatter at high Rpm, spark scatter causing pre-ignition under load,   and intermittent cut out of ignition?

     

    Sorry I did not respond to your suggestion.  Please tell me more about spark scatter, and what to do.

    Thank you,

    Jai

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    On 1/18/2017 at 2:42 PM, Dave WM said:

    second the temp sensor, need to check the resistance AT the 35 pin plug for the ambient temps.

     Lastly a check of the cold start valve.

    1st thing to do would be a pressure test of the fuel.

    All the above assumes you are having fuel mixture issues based on the plug observations. New plugs will help with the diagnosis since if they quickly foul again then is almost for sure a mixture issue and not an ignition issue.

     

    Dave,

    Sorry about not answering your points earlier.  

    The temp sensor, how does one do that?  With a meter or something?  Temp sensor, temp sender & connector, all replaced 8/29/15.

    Cold start valve,  unplugged the connector, was done on 8/15/15.

    Do you mean pressure test the fuel lines?  Not sure if done, no notes on that.

    Thank you,

    Jau

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Just now, Reptoid Overlords said:

    Perhaps one thing to look into is a pair of ramps. Maybe they will rub the front of the car but the rear might have enough clearance to back up onto them since you don't need the wheels off.

    Sent from my N9130 using Classic Zcar Club mobile
     

     

    Thank you.  My son has a set of ramps.  Will use them.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    with that history I doubt any of that is it issue. New plugs will resolve the running issue, just need to check them after a few hours and make sure nothing drastic. It could be a simple a how you drive the car. If you do lots of slow speed low rpm loafing the plugs may just be fouling due to that.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    use extreme care with ramps. I always have a backup like a spare tire or large blocks of wood under the body/frame just in case there is an issue with ramps. make sure car is chocked so it can roll if you are using on the back.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Just now, Dave WM said:

    with that history I doubt any of that is it issue. New plugs will resolve the running issue, just need to check them after a few hours and make sure nothing drastic. It could be a simple a how you drive the car. If you do lots of slow speed low rpm loafing the plugs may just be fouling due to that.

    I am aware she needs more than loafing driving.  Just lately with the rumbling etc, I have driven without much speed.  That made the rumbling worse.

    Thank you.

    BTW...  Deanna likely had an  old dog vestibular disease incident.  She is improving daily without vet intervention.  Yay.

    (Acute inflammation of vestibular nerve, what helps all to stay balanced.  Typically resolves with sudden inprovement.)

    Edited by Redwing
    forgot

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Redwing,

     

    Have a peek at this electrical connection near the front of the engine on the drivers side just behind the top of the fan. It may just be loose where it connects to the thermostat housing sensor.  Coming loose  or simply corrosion on the connectors is the usual suspect when 280z's run rich.

    The pigtail also has bullet connectors at the other end that can corrode or come loose but problems with the bullet connectors are less common. It would be good practice for you or your neighbour to check these connections.

     

    For your fouled plugs, either replace or clean really well with carb cleaner and a brush. Be sure to clean deep down in the space between the ceramic insulator and the metal body.

     

    tempsensor.jpg

     

     

     

     

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    11 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

    Redwing,

     

    Have a peek at this electrical connection near the front of the engine on the drivers side just behind the top of the fan. It may just be loose where it connects to the thermostat housing sensor.  Coming loose  or simply corrosion on the connectors is the usual suspect when 280z's run rich.

    The pigtail also has bullet connectors at the other end that can corrode or come loose but problems with the bullet connectors are less common. It would be good practice for you or your neighbour to check these connections.

     

    For your fouled plugs, either replace or clean really well with carb cleaner and a brush. Be sure to clean deep down in the space between the ceramic insulator and the metal body.

     

    tempsensor.jpg

     

     

     

     

    We replaced the connectors in 2015, though a crimp could have worked loose.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Super news my friends!!!  My neighbor Michael volunteered to replace the gas lines.  He has a fire extinguisher too!  My son is going to replace the spark plugs, and one of them , or I, will do the rotor.  It was decided that it was needed too, right?  So on Friday (Hooray for social security day!) I will go to Auto Zone and get the oil, the rotor, the plugs and the hoses.  Oh, need to get new clamps too.  Wonder where I can get the right ones quickly?  Thinking aloud.   Not sure Auto Zone will have the ones I need.  I'll  have to check Amazon, get here in 2 days if they do.

    Tell me guys, the size of the hoses needed.  

    And thanks to all of you, for each suggestion given.   You're  the best!  :beer:

    Jai

     

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Please...

    What size of fuel hoses and clamps do I need???  My FSM  has disappeared here, hiding somewhere unknown.  Aghhh...

    Thanks guys,

    Jai

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now