Consigli

Official 240Z, 260Z, 280Z Car Value Thread!

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I wanted to start a thread where people can discuss the latest value information on our beloved Z cars. I attended Barrett Jackson auto auction on Saturday and only saw one Datsun sale - a 1500 Roadster which sold for $22K. Link below. There were lots of old Toyota Land Cruisers which were selling for between $20K to $50K. Prices on the usual 50's and 60's Detroit Iron were all over the map. Most of the really nice cars clearly sold for less than their restoration costs, which makes car restoration a labor of love and not logic. But most of us knew that already! Impressions were that prices were down. Last year Ron Pratte sold his entire collection of premium classic cars at BJ. No one knows why. Since Ron is a savvy businessman, this "dump" leads many to believe that classic American car prices are heading down, since some say baby boomers are losing interest in cars as they age. And some say the next hot area may be Japanese cars since this is what many millennials drove when they were young and now that they are older & working they have disposable income for the fine Jap classics. In any case, post your thoughts and/or information in this thread! 

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1965-DATSUN-1500-ROADSTER-189458

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Looking at the latest Hagerty valuations for the 240z ... 2015 was a very good year!  A near 20k uptick for condition 1 cars across the board.

This should make an owner I know in Richardson TX and two guys here in NW AR pretty happy.  :)

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Trying to second guess the collector car market is like trying to out guess the stock market.  Some cars will always have high, and increasing, value while others go in and out of favor.  It's probably healthiest to just think of your collector car as a hole in the driveway into which you pour money.  If you're fortunate enough to sell it for more than you have in it at some point, good for you.  If not, just reflect on the pleasure it's given you along the way.  In addition to my Z, I have owned a 1970 Porsche 914-6 for 23 years and a 1963 supercharge Studebaker Avanti for 40 years.  Both are "rare" cars with production of just a few thousand each.  The 914-6 is riding high currently with examples similar to mine selling more than twice what I paid for it.  The value of the Avanti has barely kept up with inflation.  I've put more money into my Z than I could ever hope to recoup.  I enjoy them all and have no plans to sell any time soon.

Dennis

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It just came out today that Barrett-Jacksons revenue fell 23% from last year. Makes sense from what we were seeing. The $100K mark plus/minus 10 grand or so could put you into a certified, concourse show award winning restoration of a rare American classic.

The 2016 Serial number 1 Acura NSX sold for 1.2 million! Now THATS a Jap car! Godzilla lives!!!!

 

 

 

nsx-1.jpg

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I saw the TV special they did for Ron Pratt's collection.  If you listen real closely he gives an indication the collection was sold to fund his passion for vintage planes.  I don't think the selling of Ron's collection is necessarily the single indicator the market is down.  Yes, BJ's revenue is down, I do not think they will go hungry or stop doing auctions.  Overall, I think a lot of buyers finally have what they want.  Detroit muscle cars, as cool as they are, they are not rare.  Every auction has no shortage of them and to be honest, after awhile, the excitement fades and prices reflect it.  Truly rare and unique cars will always hold their value but another '64-68 Mustang, another 1st Gen Camaro, another Chevelle is just that, another car.  Cars like vintage Ferrari's and Lamborghini's continue to appreciate.  More people are buying up nice examples of models from the 80's and 90's now, just look at Countach and Ferrari 308/328 prices.  Air cooled Porches, same thing, just going up.  Will these cars ever hit a cap, probably but no one knows when.  All the big pre-war stuff, I think it is beautiful but I am no expert so I cannot comment.

Since this thread is about classic Z prices, I will give me .02.  Thanks to all the media outlets, car websites, magazines, and the release of new cars that remind people of the classic Z's (FR-S/BRZ) there has been a constant spot light on the Z cars for the past several years.   Just looking at 240z's, from a collector stand point, there are a lot of them out there.  Which is good because at any given time there is something out there for every level of Z buyer, from pristine restored cars, to low mileage originals, to very nice drivers, to projects, and everything in between.  Stock/Stock-ish cars and tastefully modified cars will always do well in the market.  For a clean 240z that is stock and well maintained but not necessarily restored is a $10K - $15K car all day long depending what part of the country you are in.  Truly restored cars start at $22K and seem to cap around $30K with a few outliers that have been bought at auction.  Just average cars needing some work but could at least be driven home within reason, $4K - $8K.  Of course every car needs to looked at up close, consider rust and other issues, changes that are bolt on vs. permanent, everything else that goes with buying a 40 year old Japanese sports car.  Things like one owner, low VINs, and popular colors can add a premium to prices across all conditions.

The great thing about classic Z's is that unlike so many other vintage cars, they can be driven and regularly.  They can keep up with modern traffic and they don't shout "look at me" as a lot of other vintage cars do on the road.

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4 hours ago, Hardway said:

 Cars like vintage Ferrari's and Lamborghini's continue to appreciate.  More people are buying up nice examples of models from the 80's and 90's now, just look at Countach and Ferrari 308/328 prices.  Air cooled Porches, same thing, just going up.  Will these cars ever hit a cap, probably but no one knows when.  

 

Thanks for a great informative post. One of the cars I saw at the auction, that I really liked,  was a 1997 Ferrari 456 GTA that sold for only $53K! Link below. It was really beautiful and just had the expensive 30K mile service done. This car cost $255K new. Talk about depreciation! Someone got a great deal! 

Every time I drive my 280Z I can't go very far without getting honks & thumbs up. And offers to buy are a regular occurrence. You are right that they make good daily drivers if you want them to be, and people just love them! 

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1997-FERRARI-456-GTA-190040

 

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I agree about the great ability to drive the car daily with little drama.

not a day goes by that i don't get a comment, smile or story from an appreciative stranger, but at the same time it's nothing at all like driving around in rarified exotica or an overly conspicuous classic american hot rod. a z blends in with the just enough while still staying special, and i can park it at the grocery store without panic.

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After I thought about this some more I wanted to add one important note.  All Z owners need to make sure your cars are insured appropriately.  I don't want to start a discussion of which carrier is the best or trade war stories but if you do not have real coverage for your car you need to get it.  Some companies require an appraisal to get a value like the owner wants.  If so, spend the money and get it.  A few hundred dollars now and few hours of your time is worth the investment.  God forbid something happens to your car but in the event it does, at least you get a check to help replace your car.  Our cars are going up in value, make sure your insurance coverage follows.

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1 hour ago, Hardway said:

After I thought about this some more I wanted to add one important note.  All Z owners need to make sure your cars are insured appropriately.  I don't want to start a discussion of which carrier is the best or trade war stories but if you do not have real coverage for your car you need to get it.  Some companies require an appraisal to get a value like the owner wants.  If so, spend the money and get it.  A few hundred dollars now and few hours of your time is worth the investment.  God forbid something happens to your car but in the event it does, at least you get a check to help replace your car.  Our cars are going up in value, make sure your insurance coverage follows.

Its good that you bring this subject up because I just went through the process with State Farm. I insured it under their antique/classic car policy. I wanted to insure it for $25K but they would only allow $20K. They use the NADA guide high retail price for their limit. Link below. They said they would go higher, but an appraisal would be required. 

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1978/Nissan-Datsun/280Z/2-Door-Coupe/Values

 

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18 minutes ago, Consigli said:

Its good that you bring this subject up because I just went through the process with State Farm. I insured it under their antique/classic car policy. I wanted to insure it for $25K but they would only allow $20K. They use the NADA guide high retail price for their limit. Link below. They said they would go higher, but an appraisal would be required. 

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1978/Nissan-Datsun/280Z/2-Door-Coupe/Values

 

I've used Hagerty Insurance for years. They ask you to tell them what the value of your car is (within reason, of course!)

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I bought my car last May for $25K then imported it to the UK, I think all in it stands me at around £20K sterling, I've put tripple       weber carbs on it since it arrived too, also although my car had been restored the paint work isn't as it should be so I've booked it in to be repainted this March, here in the UK there's a lot of discussion on 240Z prices, they were £10K for a long time but restored cars are being advertised for upto £40K, there was a classic car show on TV here last year which said " 240Z, always a cool car, they were £10K now they're £25K, buy one now, from a dry state while you can, mark my words, they will be £50K cars" 

theres still much conversation over here on LHD imports vs RHD UK cars, the truth is a dry state car will always be in better structural condition than any UK car, I know I've had one restored, in my opinion 240Z's in Europe cars fetch much more than cars in the USA. 

Edited by Red7
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Nothing beats a dry state car. Knowledgeable collectors target black plate California, New Mexico, Texas and best of all Arizona cars. And those cars command a premium. My 280Z is an un-restored all original Arizona survivor car. Bought by the original owner in 1978 right here in Phoenix, Arizona at ABC Datsun. Been here the whole time. Never wrecked, all original and not a spot of rust ANYWHERE. Not a perfect trailer queen, but looks & runs like new. People ask me all the time if I will sell it. I tell them to get me a bank check for $35K and its theirs. A few scoff, wanting to buy it low ball. I tell them to buy a cheap rusty roached out junker on Craigslist and let me know how much they spent when they get done restoring it. Unless they are exceptionally skilled and thrifty and rich in time, they will spend well north of $35K to get their junker to my cars level.  

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Here's a advert for a US Import 240Z in one of our Claassic Car Magazines, I don't know if it will fetch the asking price here in the UK, but there's plenty of potential across Europe as they are LHD on the continent.

 

 

image.jpeg

Edited by Red7
Spelling mistake
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7 hours ago, Red7 said:

Here's a advert for a US Import 240Z in one of our Classic Car Magazines, I don't know if it will fetch the asking price here in the UK, but there's plenty of potential across Europe as they are LHD on the continent.

Yes, I have found out first hand that 240Zs are highly sought after in Europe with 2 out of 3 of my former refreshed 240Zs were purchased by European buyers. My son's and my '71 918 Orange/black car went to France about 8 years ago and my '71 904 White/blue car went to Italy (now in Hungary) a little over 2 years ago.  

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3000 hours invested. What is the labor rate there in Pounds if you have a shop do all the work?

Then you add in the cost of all the parts. Including a new rebuilt engine.

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2 hours ago, grannyknot said:

So how does one go about selling a NA car in Europe?

European buyers do searches on eBay, Craigslist and other North American Internet sites that offer classic cars just as N. A. buyers do. European buyers have also been know to have friends that live in N. A. or agents that do the searching, inspection and test driving for the European buyers. 

The two 240Zs that I sold to European buyers were on on eBay and Craigslist. The first car was sold to a Frenchman who was living temporarily in Manhattan then moved back to the south west of France a little later and had the car shipped over there. On the second 240Z, an Italian gentleman saw the car for sale on Craigslist and then had his agent in New Hampshire contact me to purchase the car and we made the deal over the phone. We sent the paperwork and payment through FedEx, then he made the arrangements to have Intercity Lines pick up the car here in Colorado. The car was then transported to the agent's shop in New Hampshire where it was stored for a short time, then transported to Boston to be placed in a container and then shipped to Italy. 

The first picture below shows the first 240Z right after it arrived in the south west of France from New York. The second picture shows the second 240Z being loaded on the truck in Colorado bound for New Hampshire.

aprespc6.jpg

DSC09950.JPG

Edited by lonetreesteve
Added pictures
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Also there's an advertising site called ' pistonheads' it's very similar to Hemmings, I bought my car unseen in the flesh, communicated by telephone and email, I asked for plenty of pictures, especially of the vulnerable areas, at the end of the day it's a chance buying unseen but I built up a relationship with the seller and we trusted each other . 

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5 hours ago, grannyknot said:

So how does one go about selling a NA car in Europe?

 

You could also send the cars information to one of the Z clubs, in the UK there's 

 

The Classic Z Register and Zclub.net 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Lumens said:

3000 hours invested. What is the labor rate there in Pounds if you have a shop do all the work?

Then you add in the cost of all the parts. Including a new rebuilt engine.

 

Im not too sure really but would suggest at least £40 per hour, I've just done the math and it's frightening! 

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3 hours ago, lonetreesteve said:

European buyers do searches on eBay, Craigslist and other North American Internet sites that offer classic cars just as N. A. buyers do. European buyers have also been know to have friends that live in N. A. or agents that do the searching, inspection and test driving for the European buyers. 

The two 240Zs that I sold to European buyers were on on eBay and Craigslist. The first car was sold to a Frenchman who was living temporarily in Manhattan then moved back to the south west of France a little later and had the car shipped over there. On the second 240Z, an Italian gentleman saw the car for sale on Craigslist and then had his agent in New Hampshire contact me to purchase the car and we made the deal over the phone. We sent the paperwork and payment through FedEx, then he made the arrangements to have Intercity Lines pick up the car here in Colorado. The car was then transported to the agent's shop in New Hampshire where it was stored for a short time, then transported to Boston to be placed in a container and then shipped to Italy. 

The first picture below shows the first 240Z right after it arrived in the south west of France from New York. The second picture shows the second 240Z being loaded on the truck in Colorado bound for New Hampshire.

aprespc6.jpg

DSC09950.JPG

They sure look beauties 

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Well here in The Netherlands I can see a growing interest for JDM classics, but still way not as much as the US and EURO traditional classics..

Maybe in other parts of Europe..

It will take a while I guess, before they are really recognized.

But who knows what the classic car market will be in 2030 ? Maybe the newer " computer " generation will loose interest...

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