Fitting 240Z bumpers and Valences to a 280Z

[CanTechZ 343]

Hi Mike,

 

I experimented with an old lens first and found Polyester resin had attached better to the old arcrylic and gave the best holding power. The Polyurethane let go easier.

 

You can find the polyester resin at hobby shops for around $10.00/kg. I found it at a local arts supplier for €8.00. The polyurethane is a lot more expensive at around €35.00 a liter.

I didn't use any coloring in the resin and its hard to notice on the outside.

 

The releasing agent costs around €15.00, but you can use silicone or teflon spray on the screw. I have tried both and they work just as good.

Just a quick spray, let it dry and wipe away any excess. Otherwise it can fill the threads in the small screw.

 

That black stuff was the most expensive . Playdoe for the local toy store at €1.50 a pot. I fashioned it into shape with a paddle pop stick and when it cured removed the playdoe and washed away any leftovers. Then filed it into shape and finished it with 500 and 800 emery paper.

 

Don't forget to rough up the surface wear the resin bonds to.

 

I used the Bick ArtSupplies resin in the centre photo.

 

Goodluck

Chas

 

Thanks Chas, this info will definitely help, and I have couple of extra lenses from a parts car to experiment with.  If all goes well I may end up with a pair of decent complete front turn signals to sell as well as fix my own.

[jimbob_racing 1]

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

[EuroDat 542]

Removed the 280Z valance today and tested the Air-Dam. Im using the 240Z - 260Z Type 1 fibreglass airdam without the airducts from MSA. (Part nr. 50-1401).

 

There are some obsticles to tackle before it can be fully mounted.

1: The top section is hitting the bracket wear the lower outer mounts for the grill mounted.

 

2:The 240Z grill is also hitting the old 280Z indicator supports. Im now debating what to do there.

- Remove the old 280Z indicator supports and make new brackets for the 240Z grill or;

- Replace the top bar in the grill with the top bar from the 280Z grill and check fit again.

 

3: The 280Z indicators have different buld adaptor for the lens housing. Now I have to try and find some 240Z indicator harnesses and splice them into my plug connectors.

I have a spare harness for the rear taillights. I can use the turn signal cables in them. 

 

If  anyone has a spare set of harnesses they want to sell. I would like to buy them.

 

Chas

 

 

 

 

[EuroDat 542]

I made a little more progress on the airdam this afternoon. The airdam needed some trimming along the back edge to clear the frame where the 280Z lower (two bar) grill mounted.

I took 20mm off the back edge, starting 50mm in from each side. After that it fitted much better. Clamped it into position and drilled all the holes.

I also had to drill out a nut in each headlight bucket. The 280Z Valances have a U section cut out to clear these nuts. They are spot welded on the back and were used to hold a trim between the bumper and grill to fill the gap.

 

 

 

Now to start on the grill. I think I will have some interference problems with the old indicator mounts. Looking at the 280Z grill, the bars will have to come forward to clear. That might couse problems with the bonnet when it opens. The bonnet tilts downwards, but clears the grill because the grill is set back.

 

 

Anyway the first step is to reassemble the 240Z grill with the 280Z grill parts. I replaced the top section with the 280Z bar to mount it on the 280Z brackets. Them swapped the bottom two bar so I could use the 280Z bumper mounts. They are about 100mm further inwards and don't clear the 240Z grill.

I was tempted to start cutting all the structure for the 280Z bumper shocks, but I can try this without cutting or modifying the 240Z grill. It is only assembled with 280Z grill parts.

 

 

 

It will be a couple of days before I can get back to it. Them I will be fitting the grill.

 

Cheers

Chas

[2050-Z 0]

 > The height difference was more than I expected. The 240Z is so much higher that the centre section between the valences can not be fitted because the chassis drops down to low.

 

I too am/was planning to use the 3-piece 240z stock valence + turn signals on my 280z.

 

I'm currently in the process of paint stripping my 240z piece. Have not yet tried a test fit.

 

Do the corner pieces fit correctly on the 280z chassis?

 

I knew there would be a height issue in the middle. I was planning on some kind of butchering of the middle valence piece to fit around obstructions, then hiding it with a 240z BRE-style front spoiler.

 

I'm curious if anyone has succeeded in this project. Not a fan of the MSA front air dam unfortunately.

[EuroDat 542]

> The height difference was more than I expected. The 240Z is so much higher that the centre section between the valences can not be fitted because the chassis drops down to low.

 

I too am/was planning to use the 3-piece 240z stock valence + turn signals on my 280z.

 

I'm currently in the process of paint stripping my 240z piece. Have not yet tried a test fit.

 

Do the corner pieces fit correctly on the 280z chassis?

 

I knew there would be a height issue in the middle. I was planning on some kind of butchering of the middle valence piece to fit around obstructions, then hiding it with a 240z BRE-style front spoiler.

 

I'm curious if anyone has succeeded in this project. Not a fan of the MSA front air dam unfortunately.

Hi 2050-Z,

That was my thoughts exactly. I wanted the 240Z valance and even bought a full set (the blue ones). I stripped all the blue paint and started fitting them, but the problems with the lower 280Z frame were just too big a "show stopper". You can see the height difference in post 4, 3rd photo.

You would have to hack the centre piece up a lot to get it to fit around the frame and the frame will always be visible even with a bre spoiler.

I thought about cutting the side valance panels and adding a V section so I could tilt the centre section downwards to cover the frame. I might even try it one day. For now I just took Tamo's advice and bought a airdam from MSA.

I have some more photos showing the differences when mounted on the car. I can post them if you want to se it.

Chas

[2050-Z 0]

Yeah, any other pics you have would be useful for myself and others planning this swap.

 

Exactly what pieces are it that get in the way? Are any of them removable?

 

I assume someone must have completed this full 240z > 280z front end swap in the past. Where are his pics and thread?

[CanTechZ 343]

 

....I assume someone must have completed this full 240z > 280z front end swap in the past. Where are his pics and thread?

 

Not a full valence but, I really like the job HaZmatt did .....

 

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/49193-my-datsun-280z-rustoration/page-20

 

post 398

[2050-Z 0]

His seems to be an MSA air damn, similar to what the OP here is doing?

[tamo3 28]

Hi Chas,

 

You made great progress!

Can't wait to see fitting the grille on the car.

 

Regards,

tamo3

[EuroDat 542]

Thanks Tamo,

 

It was your advice/comments in post #5 the convinced me to go with the 240Z air-dam. Ive had the air-dam since november last year, but been too slack to fit it.

 

One of the long bolts (M3x230mm) on the 240Z grill broke off just above the nut, so I had to get a section of M3 thread brassed onto it. I hope to have some time tomorrow so I can start doing the adjustments and fitting it.

 

 

Hi 2050-Z,

 

I have never seen a full 240Z valence swap on a 280Z. I think the front frame section scares most people off.

I don't know exactly when they dropped the front frame, I think it went in stages. 240Z was almost straight across.

Not sure about the 260Z. They still have the 240Z style valence panels with turn signal indicators so I presume they are somewhere between the 240Z and the 280Z.

The 280Z has a deeper radiator and that is why the frame drops down so low. Its about 80 to 100mm under the 240Z center vlaence panel. See photo.

 

 

The two side sections bolt on, but you have to remove a nut that is spot welded to the back of the headlight bucket. Its there for securing the Sight Shield Assembly panel. Its the red panel in these photos with the dog ear on the end. I was using it in combination with the 280Z grill because the 280Z grill has 2 bars less and a large gap behind the 240Z bumper.

 

 

Here are some photos of the 240Z valences mounted on the car. Can't find any photos of the center piece, but it was never mounted. To fit it you would have to cut a large piece out of the rear of the center piece. The back third if I can remember orrectly. I don't know if the BRE spoiler would still fit after such an aggresive trimming. I couldn't figure out a way to modify it without making it look butt ugly.

 

 

Chas

 

PS: HaZmat has the Xeon PU airdam with the brake vents; MSA P/N: 50-1411 http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic02a01b/50-1411

I wanted the version without the vents, but MSA only has it in fibreglass. It doesn't have the deflection problems the PU airdam have. Although you could hit a speed bump, break it off and then run over it and doing all kinds of damage in the process......

 

 

[EuroDat 542]

A little more progress on the grill today. The M3 thread die didn't come in today, so ill have to wait until Friday to pick it up. I need to shorten two long bolts and recut the threads. Its not needed for testing.

 

I had to do some drill in the horizontal bars to get the 280Z sections and the 240Z grill to match up. See red circles for where bars needed to be drilled out.

 

 

 

The two outer vertical section from the 240Z had to be shortened as well and the short 280Z had to be altered for the end of the top bar. I drilled the top bar, but I didn't want to try to form it like the other holes. I was afraid it would distort and go out of shape.

 

 

 

Now its back together for testing. 

First problem. Its hitting the old turn signal indicator supports. I used two 20mm tube spacers to move it out and clear the supports. Just misses the bonnet by a couple of mm when I open it. Ill have to look into this further. An option would be to remove a section of the indicator support thats hitting the grill.

Next problem; The lower support hits the back edge of the air dam. Might need to take another 20mm of the back edge of the spoiler.

 

 

 

Chas

[Patcon 1,928]

Chas,

Are you gonna put the front signals back in the grill where the bars are shorter? I wanted to do a grill similar to this when I put the airdam on the car I am working on. The factory grill doesn't fill the whole area up when you add the airdam.

[EuroDat 542]

Chas,

Are you gonna put the front signals back in the grill where the bars are shorter? I wanted to do a grill similar to this when I put the airdam on the car I am working on. The factory grill doesn't fill the whole area up when you add the airdam.

Hi Charles,

 

The grill will be coming apart again. Your remarks got me thinking about it again, sometimes not a good thing. I want to put two of the 240Z bars under the two short ones so the grill will go all the way to the airdam.

 

The short bars are needed because Im using the old bumper shock mounting position. That is about 80mm closer to the car centerline. Ill take some photos tomorrow so you can see what I mean.

I am now considering some more alterations like cutting a section of the old turn signal supports (see red line in photo) away so the grill can be set a little further back towards the original position. Also looking at straightening the bent up panel to the left in the photo (red circle) so I can mount the bumper like the original bracket position on the 240Z.

 

 

Plenty of experimenting to do over the weekend

Chas

[tamo3 28]

Hi Chas,

 

Looks good fitting. Cutting turn signal supports is one of the difficult thing I have experienced....

[EuroDat 542]

Hi Tamo,

Im trying to convince myself its not that hard to do, but your not helping with that remark😐 Only joking, I realise its not that simple and I don't want it to look like a hack job when its finished.

I want to do it so I can set the grill a little further back. Because its moved forward the bonnet just misses the grill when you open it.

Ill take step by step photos if and when I decide to go that way.

[Patcon 1,928]

Can you not remove the turn signal bracket completely or do you need it to support the grill? I would think a few spot welds drilled out and it would come out.

[EuroDat 542]

Can you not remove the turn signal bracket completely or do you need it to support the grill? I would think a few spot welds drilled out and it would come out.

I have thought about that as well. They are held in place by 4 big spot welds of about 1cm in diameter. If I do that, I will need to make brackets to hold the grill.

[EuroDat 542]

I revised my grill again today. Spent most of the afternoon making new vertical bars so I copuld extend the grill all the way down to the airdam.

It won't work with my bumper brackets in the present situation, but Im planning to move then out to the 240Z position.

 

To add the extra too "long" bars I needed to remove the top bar from the little grill under the 280Z bumper. Second was to try and repair the old top bar from the 240Z grill. Someone drilled extra holes in it and it was bent up a bit.

 

I heated it red hot to straighten it and flatten the indentations for the vertical bars.

 

Here are the "custom" parts I made to extend the grill.

 

Here are some pics of the grill and a trial fit in the car. Its held in place with some wire. The two centre vertical bars will attach to the frame mounting where the old 280Z grill under the bumper mounted.

 

 

 

 

 

[Patcon 1,928]

There, that's it. That was exactly what I was thinking of doing! Well done! What did you fab your vertical bars out of, Aluminum?

[EuroDat 542]

The vertical bars are made out of a h-profile. I had to cut a section off to make it a u-profile. The end result was a u-profile 12x10x12x1mm.

Then I made a jig to cut the slots. I can make a couple of sets with the left over profile. First to get my proto type werking right.....

[EuroDat 542]

Removed the old turn signal supports today. I managed to get them out without butchering them, so I can reuse them if I ever decide to go back.

 

 

 

Now buzy making new brackets to mount the grill.

 

Charles, Here is a photo of the back of one of the vertical bars.

 

 

Chas

[Patcon 1,928]

Thanks for the good pictures. I thought the light brackets would come out like that. Much easier than having to work around them. So the vertical with the slots is Aluminum? Is the all thread stainless or Zinc?

[EuroDat 542]

Hi Charles,

The vertical bars are aluminium. I thought about using stainless, but decided it was harder to fabricate and the original design has a degree of flexability which the stainless would not equal.

The horizontal bars fit snug in the slots and when you tighten the bolts the vertical bars compress and clamp it all together. The thinkness of the slots is important, too big and the vertical bar will bend and misvorm like a bananna.

I used a sharpening stone to wear down the side of a hacksaw blade to get the right thickness. If you support both ends of the vertical bar and gently push it at its center from the back. That opens the slots a little and then you can easily insert the horizontal bars. If it was made of stainless it would be a lot more difficult to assemble.

The thread is stainless.

Back to the progress report:

I made some test brackets yesterday and fitted then today, but made a mistake measuring the brackets.

To fit the grill I plan to go back to the 240Z top brackets. The 280Z brackets are fitted to one bar and it keeps flexing, but when I measured the 240Z brackets I switched them, left to right, by accident and made the test bracket 20mm to short. It will be enough for a test setup. The next brackets will be 2mm stainless.

In the photos the grill is hanging on the test brackets and the second horizontal bar is removed so I can take measurements. The grill will be lifted 10mm which will center the bars around the bumper better. Next the test bumper brackets, but that will have to wait till Sunday afternoon.

Edited June 3, 2015 by EuroDat

[EuroDat 542]

Its been slow going the last two weeks. I made the bumper brackets out of aluminium and now they are being fabricated out of stainless.

I told him I wasn't in a rush because I had some other things to do first. That meant he left them in the box and forgot about then until I called last Monday. I should have them this weekend.

 

After so many prototype aluminium brackets I finally got the grill where I wanted it. Then I made all the brackets out of stainless and did the final mounting of the grill today.