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TomoHawk

Updates to the ZCCA Car Show Judging Rules

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Will, you mean "Street Modified" class with an original L-series engine.

....

Nope! I meant he could fix the "issue" with his car and put in something between a stock L24 and any Z engine...but the real fix for me would be the original engine...or at least An L2X...

OJ, your car only has to make you happy-and I would love to see it just as you want it to be for as long as it is yours.

To pair with you Chris, I have always looked at the Competition Parts Catalog as the HLS30 Accessory list, even though many. if not most. dealers never made it readily available to customers because of having to wait for what would have been ordered from it...and most dealers having had the attitude "forget what you don't have, sell what is here..."

Edited by hls30.com

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The week before the 2008 convention had perfect convention weather. It was sunny and warm the whole week. Even I had to wear my winter coat all week for the convention. You take some chances picking the date.

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I'll give this a break while people make their the way to the convention. Meanwhile, I have an attorney friend who said he'd give the document a look, and discuss the missing information with me.

Good luck to the people going to the convention.

Edited by TomoHawk

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ZCCA judging question:

I noticed in the judging manual that the stock Z car must be in the "exactly as shipped from the factory" condition.  For the 1973 Z cars, there was a service bulletin that later installed items such as the insulation that cover the fuel lines among other things.  Based on the manual verbage, my understanding is that the insulation should not be on the car for the official judging.  Does this sound correct?

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I'm not a ZCCA judge, but that does not sound right to me. Since that was a documented dealer modification (not quite a "recall"), I would expect that to be accepted as "normal" when being evaluated. I would hope that cars that had those mods would be considered totally equal to cars which had not.

But, of course... My opinion doesn't mean squat.  LOL 

 

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15 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

I'm not a ZCCA judge, but that does not sound right to me. Since that was a documented dealer modification (not quite a "recall"), I would expect that to be accepted as "normal" when being evaluated. I would hope that cars that had those mods would be considered totally equal to cars which had not.

But, of course... My opinion doesn't mean squat.  LOL 

 

I agree with Bruce ... and I regard his opinion highly!   Be it beer or automotive engineering.

The judging rules need an update (I know the judges are mostly unpaid volunteers)  for instance, there is no "survivor" class.  A true unmolested 40k miles 240 / 280z gets to compete with a full on restoration where everything is refreshed or brought up to as new standards.  Not exactly a fair playing field.

I know that Zup got dinged for his replacement of the fuel line insulation with a modern equivalent vs the original asbestos stuff.

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4 hours ago, motorman7 said:

ZCCA judging question:

 "exactly as shipped from the factory" condition. 

You mean the hub caps are off and in cardboard boxes on the rear deack?

datsuns_on_pier_-_nara_-_542633.jpg

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Wow! That picture of all those Z's is incredible.   Amazing...I am in awe.  Wow.

 

PS:  yes, had good conversation with @Zup.  Makes me think I will not put on insulation till after ZCON. Its safer I think

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@gnosez

@HLS30

@26th-Z

Hi Rich,

You know my thoughts on this particular subject, but it would be great to hear from experienced ZCCA judges.

I have shown my car at ZCCA judged events both with and without the fuel line insulation (which was a part of the V kit----- a factory authorized modification for the 73 model year 240z cars).

At Memphis and Austin----No insulation = no point deduction

At Atlanta---Insulation = 3 point deduction, but the deduction was taken twice = 6 point deduction

Engine & Engine Compartment Item #1. Radiator/ Fan, Fan Clutch/ Belts/ Hoses/ Clamps     (the 3 point deduction comment  was "not stock, heat shields on hoses")

Engine & Engine Compartment Item #5. Emissions System (air pump, tubes, hoses)    (the 3 point deduction comment was "heat shields")

Of course I knew nothing of this until I received the judging sheets about 5 months after the show! (Judging sheets attached below)

Nevertheless, I reviewed the TSB "Modification Plus" describing the parts and procedures which did not get published in their entirety until August of 1975. (attached below)

It is apparent that as ongoing problems were experienced by owners, there were a series of modifications and adjustments that were endeavoring to fix the issues---not just one but many. (orifice restrictors, power valve changes, electric fuel pump installation and heat shield insulation wraps, etc.)

Even the Hitachi carburetors were significantly redesigned/ improved, as over the time period there were at least 2 versions (with a middle version that was sort of a mix of both the earlier and the later)

The insulating heat shield wraps were of 2 types, as described on page 14 of the TSB. At first it was a black "tar like" tape wrapped with bright adhesive foil, and then the more commonly seen asbestos glass fiber insulative material covered by an aluminum coated asbestos cloth.

I've come full circle and will be removing the insulation from Zilver in preparation for the show in Branson this July.

1973 240z 1974 260z fuel system modifications.pdf Jim Daniels 2018 Atlanta Judging sheets Stock (1).pdf

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1 minute ago, S30Driver said:

@bpilati  has been a ZCCA judge.

Yeah---I learned a lesson from him.

His name on your glove box lid inner panel WILL cost you points!

Ask me how I know.

You'd think you could get a +1 for schmoozing--------not so. ROFL

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Assuming you're talking about Stock class, that is a difficult class to judge. Technically if it wasn't on there when it left the factory,  it could count against you. However there are instances where Nissan has consolidated parts over times for various reasons.  Sometimes they run out of a part and a new part supersedes an older part. Sometimes a part had problems and is replaced by a newer one. The fuel line heat shield kit is a good question,  and I don't know the answer.  It's not a factory part technically unless it came on the boat. Dealer installed is usually not allowed. 

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9 hours ago, Zup said:

I've come full circle and will be removing the insulation from Zilver in preparation for the show in Branson this July.

It has been a long series of battles but the end of your war is coming!

image.png

 

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I sent an email to Todd Wagner and Chris Karl from the ZCCA to look at this thread and maybe provide comments. 

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5 minutes ago, SteveJ said:

I sent an email to Todd Wagner and Chris Karl from the ZCCA to look at this thread and maybe provide comments. 

I also sent an email to Fred Buoni. I hope that at least one of them will look. However, this close to ZCON, they are all probably pretty busy.

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4 minutes ago, SteveJ said:

I also sent an email to Fred Buoni. I hope that at least one of them will look. However, this close to ZCON, they are all probably pretty busy.

And the email to Fred bounced. @bpilati - Do you have a club meeting coming up soon where you could direct Fred to this thread?

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2 hours ago, SteveJ said:

I also sent an email to Fred Buoni. I hope that at least one of them will look. However, this close to ZCON, they are all probably pretty busy.

@zpizzaman20 is Fred.

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14 hours ago, 240260280 said:

You mean the hub caps are off and in cardboard boxes on the rear deack?

Just read the rules, and it states in Section II A (Stock Class): "Any dealer preparation shall be limited to removal of protective shipping coatings /
coverings and installation of components shipped with the car in protective coverings."

So probably does not need to be in cardboard boxes in the rear.  But that would be great if someone actually had those original boxes and displayed the car that way.

 

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For the 1973 Model Year - - several different versions came from the factory. You will notice that the 73 240Z's - mostly have a inverted V shaped piece of metal on the radiator core support - which has a rubber seal attached to it. They were put on at the Dealerships as part of the trial and error solutions to help remediate the vapor locking and percolating fuel issues.  The fist one's were bolted on at the Dealerships, then later they were put on at the factory - spot welded on the radiator core supports.  Likewise many of the items created / tried at the Dealerships,  while Nissan's Service and Engineering departments were working with the Dealerships to solve the operational problems, were added at the factory on later examples.  IMHO the best thing the ZCCA could do in this case - is note in the Judging Rules, that items specified by Nissan Field Service for installation at the Dealerships are to be considered "factory".  

The earliest Core Support Lip that I've see was on HLS30 137967... 12/72...

FWIW

Carl B.

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