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Zs-ondabrain

Daves NEW Start/Stop Button Ignition System.

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OK, so you all know I like to try and come up with something New into something old. I've noticed a lot of people trying to come up with a Push Button Start for their S30. The others want to use the Newer Maxima / Altima Start/Stop button. The problem has been that they still have to use the key to turn on the ignition, Cut up the wiring, Drill holes or have to make specialty brackets, etc, etc and sometimes with bad results. Such as wire fires, car won't start, electrical issues, starter won't shut off, and on and on it goes.

So after researching every ones issues with the typical DIY installs, I called a friend and we designed a unit that does what it's supposed to do. This kit uses the Nissan Maxima Start/Stop Button, All functions of the button were retained (Lock, Acc, On and center button LED's work like normal) PLUGS INTO THE DATSUN IGNITION CONNECTOR!! External relays that are easily reached and replaceable if needed, A Start circuit box that is simple to install and only requires 1) connection from the button switch, 1) connection from the relay pack and ONLY 3) wires of the 6 wires need to be connected for full operation. The remaining 3 wires are optional, as is the Plug in Security Switch, which is very small and easily hidden within 3 Ft of the box.

We've decided, after adding the price of all the parts, assembly, shipping and such, and Trying to keep it Very Competetive with other similar products and prices, The $170 w/ shipping included in the price, anywhere in the lower 48 States, was a more than fair price. For a "Plug and Play" unit, Made for the 240Z but compatible with MANY other vehicles, $170 is a Great price.

The Nissan Push to start/Stop button will go where your Keyed ignition presently resides. The hole only needs to be widened about 1/16" and 2 slots be dremeled into the shell to lock it in the correct angle. (so the button doesn't twist in the hole) The Ignition switch Will Obviously need to be removed and the owner will not have a Locking steering column afterwards.

Some of you will raise the concern of Security with a system like this. Totally understandable and is dealt with in a couple ways. If you already have an Aftermarket security system (Car Alarm) Almost all of them have a starter kill wire called a "Ground Output when Armed" and it is typically Orange in color. When the aftermarket alarm is "Armed" the Orange wire will have a Negative Ground output, which when connected to the Orange "Disengage" wire of the Start box, will stop all functions of the switch and circuitry.

The other Security Option is a Simple Plug-In Micro switch. It plugs right into the Start box, has 3 feet of wire and is easily hidden within reach of the owner. It can be mounted in the center console, dash mounted, hidden in plain sight among other switches.

So in conclusion. You can instal a Nissan Maxima Start/stop Ignition button into your S30 or other Datsuns. It will operate very similar to the Maxima. There are Security options. Only a few connections and a minimum of 3 wires to connect. The switch installs with minimal effort where your existing keyed ignition switch is. No more forgetting your keys in the ignition. Just unlock the door, put your keys back in your pocket.

After more research, I have found only a few similar products. They are Complicated, Not made specifically for your S30, Way more expensive and include a manual that tells you to ONLY have a Certified Automotive 12 volt Specialist instal their product into your car. If you know how to use a Dremel, know where the brake pedal switch is and how to follow a wire from the distributor to the coil's Positive terminal, connect a wire to it and run it in thru the firewall to the steering column area and plug in matching connectors, Then you can do this in less than an afternoon.

Below are some pictures and a video of the first run. The operations have been changed to more resemble the Maxima operation.

press once to turn on the Acc.

press again and it shuts back off.

OR

Press once to turn on Acc.

Press and hold the brake pedal then press and hold the Start button until the car starts.

Press the button again to shut the car off. leave the car.

Car will not start unless the brake pedal is being pressed while pressing the button. if the pedal is not pressed the pressing of the button will only shut the Acc back off.

I'll answer what ever questions you have.

http://video.cardomain.com/VideoPlayer.aspx?id=2202506

The last picture is of the Instal Diagram that will be in the Instal Manual that comes with the kit.

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Well let me be the first to say, very cool. As always looks well thought out. Dave, your contributions to this community never cease to amaze.

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Thanks Tristan. I try.

I actually wrote this thread to get an idea of any interest in this type of product.

Does $170 (with shipping included) Sound like an ideal, reasonable price for a Plug and Play kit? A full kit that has Everything you need to be Keyless, Push Button Ignition, with built in security features and only requires 3 connections and 3 wires to be connected for a fully operational unit (and of coarse, dremeling 1/16" of the plastic steering column shell)

So let's here it guys. Would you be interested at this price? Nothing is built except for the 2 prototypes, one of which is fully operational and in my daily driven 240Z, for about 3 weeks now) I'm considering a run of 20 to keep the price down and would like to do Pre-Orders to Make sure costs are covered and the first come first served idea of the R/T mounts works for those who are interested.

PM or Email me if you are interested. wolfin32z@yahoo.com

I would like to make Donations to the Site from the sale of these. So your purchase will also help Classiczcars.com

Dave

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For me this is not an option,as I do not want to modify my mostly all stock car, but I must say your ingenuity is outstanding. If I was building a modified street Z,I would definitely buy this. VERY cool feature!

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That is a really cool application. I just might have to replace my Mobile1 oil cap starter knob for this. :bulb: BTW, $170 is a very fair price for technology of this sort. IMHO.

243743214_7qP9u-XL.jpg

Edited by cygnusx1

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Very cool, Dave! It's a beautiful install. :) I think the PERFECT system would also have some sort of transponder for security. I think some security systems have digital transponders that enable the ignition when the driver sits in the car. That would be the ultimate package.

I can see how a lot of people would want to do this mod, and I think the $170 price is reasonable. Not my cup of tea, though. I'm old fashioned, and I enjoy turning the key. Maybe someday everyone will have remote control and pushbutton starting, and then my key ignition will gain a bit more of a unique "cool" factor -- sort of like the genuine hand crank windows. ;)

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very slick and clean looking could do away with keys all together. a bit new age for my taste but I am sure with your proven track record you could sell a bunch of these especially over on hybridz

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For me this is not an option,as I do not want to modify my mostly all stock car, but I must say your ingenuity is outstanding. If I was building a modified street Z,I would definitely buy this. VERY cool feature!

You're right, not an option for everyone but thanks for the compliment.

will this work on the 280z??

Yes. As long as your ignition plug is like every other S30

(2 rows of 3) 6-pin connector just like the one pictured below. Most plugs are identical with the exception of the green wire. If you don't have a Ballast resistor, then you won't likely have the green colored wire. And it will still work on your 280Z. If your wires are in the same order then you're good.

That is a really cool application. I just might have to replace my Mobile1 oil cap starter knob for this. :bulb: BTW, $170 is a very fair price for technology of this sort. IMHO.

I don't know, that cap is kinda cool. You sure you wanna replace it? LOL Just kiddin. It'll replace the cap just fine.

Very cool, Dave! It's a beautiful install. :) I think the PERFECT system would also have some sort of transponder for security. I think some security systems have digital transponders that enable the ignition when the driver sits in the car. That would be the ultimate package.

I can see how a lot of people would want to do this mod, and I think the $170 price is reasonable. Not my cup of tea, though. I'm old fashioned, and I enjoy turning the key. Maybe someday everyone will have remote control and pushbutton starting, and then my key ignition will gain a bit more of a unique "cool" factor -- sort of like the genuine hand crank windows. ;)

It definately has a "Cool Factor"

Transponders are pricey at the moment and most of the cheaper ones only have a 5" range. Which means the keys have to be placed right next to the receiver in order to work. We're looking into this as well, hopefully a 5 foot range for those with power door locks. And the ease of "As long as the keys are on your person, it'll work"

very slick and clean looking could do away with keys all together. a bit new age for my taste but I am sure with your proven track record you could sell a bunch of these especially over on hybridz

I don't like using my Notoriety to sell things but if it helps..........

I'm hoping the product will sell itself. The fact that it's keyless, Push to Start and Stop, Lights up and tells you what it's doing (Status LED's) and the ease of instal (3 connectors and only 3 of the 6 wires to make it work) the other 3 wires are optional.

Thanks guys, keepem coming.

Hybrid Z is next. I know it'll be a hit over there but you guys are family, and therefore get first dibs....

Dave

Edited by Zs-ondabrain

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Dave was over the other day helping me wire up my race car and I got to see this switch in person. There is a lot more to replacing the ignition switch than just putting a button in its place, but he has really done all the figuring for you. I hope you sell a ton of em Dave.

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This is pretty cool Dave! You can count me in for one. I had been considering how I would do something of this sort but you've got all the figuring done already!

Greg

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I would be interested if you could work out the transponder solution. However, to answer your question the $170 sounds more than fair to me. Great work and I hope you sell lots of them.

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I like it too Dave. My rig is still a few years from completion and I have dreamt about this exact modification. I have a spot on the center console right near my right knee that would be perfect for it. I understand at the moment it has to go in where the ignition switch was but with a little ingenuity I believe it could be mounted elsewhere. I will keep my eye on it though. Maybe an early XMAS present from the "WIF"

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Dave, I also think it's a cool idea, but, came up with a few questions. I assume you are posting this to retrieve feedback about the idea. So, here goes.

Dave, unless it's a race car, I don't see how you can secure the vehicle against someone just opening the door, pushing the button, and driving away with your car. Have you thought about security?

AFIK, the push-button technology works only on newer cars if the key-fob is present in (or near) the vehicle. I haven't looked into the method they use (some kind of RFID I assume), but, without this in place I don't see how this push button can be used in more markets than just race cars or cars rarely driven and protected in a garage.

If it plugs directly into the existing wiring, this is a benefit for your product.

I think it would be really cool if you took this idea to the next level. Perhaps integrate RFID and tie it to a specific alarm manufacturer.

Mike

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Not answering for Dave, but my "oil cap" ignition which I call "keyless", is just that. Anyone can walk up, turn the knob, and steal the car. However, I employ kill switches for those days when I need to park the car for a while. There is no reason that a kill switch can't easily be employed. I think Dave's button setup provides wires for "kill-switching" the car.

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Of course, a really good "kill switch" is to open up the hood, open the distributor cap, and place the rotor in your pocket. How many people are going to have a spare Z car rotor with them. :)

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Dave, unless it's a race car, I don't see how you can secure the vehicle against someone just opening the door, pushing the button, and driving away with your car. Have you thought about security?

Mike

As mentioned above, there is kill switch that is hidden in the car, and the button wont work without this in the right position. As well, i don't think its a stretch to think that if you are going to install something like this in your car, an after market security system is already in, or going in with it. And this kit can tie into most if not all systems, so that when armed, the start button will not work either.

Edited by TriDawgn

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Good job Dave! Well thought out and a good implementation. The security features may need a little work, but it really isn't much less secure than the ignition switch in most early 70's cars.

(The less said publicly about that the better by the way...)

And $170 is a reasonable price.

Personally I despise the push button start concept, so I am not interested. However for those who are less stuck in the mud than I am, this looks like a promising solution.

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This looks great to me. The PO had something like this installed in my '73 240Z, but a bit more complicated. I have to have the key in the ignition switch in the run position (nice security), then flip the ignition switch (yes another switch where the ash tray used to be along with the fuel pump switch, fog light switch and acc switch), then you can push the stat button to start the car. All together works as a theft deterrent. The problem is that the push button has gotten flaky on me and so I picked up an S2000 start button to replace it. Just figured on hooking it up that same as the current button, with the addition of a led lead for lighting it up. Yours seems way easier and simpler. Once I get my car back from more body work, I plan on taking out the dash to see what the wiring is like. I have to because the current switch is located where the cigarette lighter used to be. If I can make yours work, then I will be in. If not, then I go with original plan and use what I have. Just wish you lived closer because right now, there is no one I trust locally to do electrical, let alone learn from. Any idea just yet when production may start?

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It HAS 2 Security features. Every Kit will come with a PLUG-IN Micro Switch. Which cn be put anywhere within 3 feet of the Start box. AND you can even Extend the wires using regular speaker wire to any length you choose (to put it in the center console if you'd like) The 2 wires of the security Switch just need to make contact to Disengage the Box (Make it not work)

I Just got the new box and will make a small video tomorrow.

The Second Security feature is a Single wire than can be connected to an Alarms "Ground when Armed" wire. So If you have an alarm, this feature can be added to your alarm to Disengage the Box. AND you can also leave in the Micro switch as a back-up, so if your alarms power wire is cut, the Micro switch will still Disengage the Box.

The Third Security Feature is an Anit-Car-Jacking Feature. When the car is running, Flip the Micro switch (when in bad Neighborhoods). pressing the Ignition Button will shut the engine off, you give up your car and leave, they hit the button all they want and it won't start. They leave the car and look for the next victim. You come back when he's gone, flip the switch and drive away.

Mike,

This is a Keyless Ignition, not a Keyless Vehicle system. As I said in the first post, "Use your key to enter the vehicle and put it back in your pocket." You'll never lock your keys in the car again.

esmit208,

An Extended Cable will be available for those with Custom Applications like the dash or center console. The Hole cut-out Template can be used on the center console or any 1/8" plate of their chosing.

A Multi-Mounting bracket will also be available with Pre-cut hole and tabs. It will aalow the bracket to be mounted Under the flat of the dash, on the center console, above the steering column cover or to the left of it. I'll post a picture later to explain the simple mounting bracket for those who want to put the switch somewhere other than the ignition hole.

Going to dinner be back later to fill you in some more.

Dave

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This looks great to me. The PO had something like this installed in my '73 240Z, but a bit more complicated. I have to have the key in the ignition switch in the run position (nice security), then flip the ignition switch (yes another switch where the ash tray used to be along with the fuel pump switch, fog light switch and acc switch), then you can push the stat button to start the car. All together works as a theft deterrent. The problem is that the push button has gotten flaky on me and so I picked up an S2000 start button to replace it. Just figured on hooking it up that same as the current button, with the addition of a led lead for lighting it up. Yours seems way easier and simpler. Once I get my car back from more body work, I plan on taking out the dash to see what the wiring is like. I have to because the current switch is located where the cigarette lighter used to be. If I can make yours work, then I will be in. If not, then I go with original plan and use what I have. Just wish you lived closer because right now, there is no one I trust locally to do electrical, let alone learn from. Any idea just yet when production may start?

If he cut your plug off, I can make you a hard-wire version with Matching colored wires to connect to your dash harness, crimp the butt connectors and you're good to go for the other 3 wires. Simple.

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After rereading your post, it sounds like he did more than just cut off the plug and wire in the switches. Take a look at where the plug used to be and see what all he did. Kinda interested to find out.

Dave

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I plan on doing that as soon as I can. I get the car back tomorrow from the guy doing the fender flares, but then it has to go back to get repainted, again. If there is enough time between the tow then I will look, if not then I'll PM you with results when I get a chance. Hopefully by the end of the month at the latest. Have enough interest to start production?

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So one of the Members at Ratsun.net did a little research and found the following vehicles with the same style connector and correct wiring (in the correct slot for complete Plug-N-play) with no altering of the wiring configuration.

These are the same as the 240Z's ignition connector and wiring

Datsun

1968-1973 510

1970-1978 240Z, 260Z, 280Z

1979-1983 280ZX

1972-1973 1200 (B110)

1979-1982 210 (B310)

1978-1981 510 (A10)

1977-1981 810 (Bluebird)

1982-1983 Maxima (910 Bluebird)

1979-1982 310 (N10)

1977-1983 200SX (S10)

1979 Datsun 620

1980-1982 Datsun 720

Subaru

1982-1987 Brat

1986-1987 GL

1980-1984 DL

1980 GLF

1980 GL

1980-1987 Standard

And these are wired different, but look similar:

1974-1978 B210

1973-1976 610

1975-1977 710

1976-1978 F10

All I would need to know, to make the DZ-Start Plug N Play for these models, is where each wire is in the connector.

So 20 vehicles are P-N-P for the DZ-Start. Things are looking good so far.

Fianl schematic and board Lay-out was sent to the PCB Manufacurer. So I'll be able to start assembling the boards in a few weeks and should have the relay harnesses ready by then as well.

This is me, doing my "Happy Dance" LOLROFLLOL

Dave

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OK, Finally got out there and made a video of the new DZ-Ztart module installed in my 70' 240Z. The old video had different functions. It now better resemble the Maxima operation of Push once for Acc, press brake and push to start car, press again to shut off. Press without touching brake pedal and you only get Acc. on and off.

Thanks again guys,

Dave

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