Won't go into 5th...

[Weasel73240Z]

Sorry to anyone who read my post in "Open Z Car Discussion"....just hoping for an answer if I put it here. The car is a 1973 240Z, and I installed a 280 ZX 5 speed/R-180 (4.11) combo this Winter.

Everything seemed OK, until I got the car on the highway for a shake down run. Car is a little tough downshifting from 2nd to 1st, not that unusual in my experience. But the car will not go into 5th gear at all. Just wants to grind, and I was afraid to force it. Its also a little tough getting in into reverse, but does go in with a little effort. I didn't cut the tranny tunnel, the car was built in 10/72, so I don't think I needed to cut it.

The clutch/pressure plate/release bearing/slave cylinder and hoses are all new and worked great with the 4 speed. Clutch master cylinder isn't new, but it worked fine with the 4 speed, so I think its good.

Does this sound like adjusting/bleeding is needed, or does is sound like my 5 speed needs a rebuild. I would guess that if it was adjusting/bleeding, I'd have trouble in all gears, not just 5th. I noticed that the 75 - 83 used a sleeve/bearing that appears to be different from whats in a 240. Could this be my problem? The 280ZX it came out of only had about 65K on it, but sat for about 10 years before I bought the tranny.

Any help would be great, thanks.

[rebelgt]

im not a trans expert but it may be the 5th and reverse shift rod or prssibly a syncronizer. did u disasemble the trans and replace the seals? if it sat that long you may have bad seals.

[Weasel73240Z]

New front and rear tranny seal, new fluid. But I didn't rebuild it, just swapped it in.

[Robin]

I had the same problem in my 79.... not able to get into 5th gear and grinding into reverse. Ended up rebuilding the tranny, replaced bearings and installed new syncros, that was the ticket.

[Weasel73240Z]

I had the same problem in my 79.... not able to get into 5th gear and grinding into reverse. Ended up rebuilding the tranny, replaced bearings and installed new syncros, that was the ticket.

Starting to think thats where I'm going. Trying to bleed and adjust more today, then if that doesn't work, the 4 speed goes back in....4,000 rpms to do 60??? :ogre:

[Arne]

Starting to think thats where I'm going. Trying to bleed and adjust more today, then if that doesn't work, the 4 speed goes back in....4,000 rpms to do 60??? :ogre:

Not with stock gearing and stick diameter tires, no. Mine turns less than 3000 RPM at 60 MPH. Road & Track reported revs/mile (60 MPH) as 2850 in 1970.

[sblake01]

Arne, he's got 4.11s.

[Marty Rogan]

Sorry to anyone who read my post in "Open Z Car Discussion"....just hoping for an answer if I put it here. The car is a 1973 240Z, and I installed a 280 ZX 5 speed/R-180 (4.11) combo this Winter.

Everything seemed OK, until I got the car on the highway for a shake down run. Car is a little tough downshifting from 2nd to 1st, not that unusual in my experience. But the car will not go into 5th gear at all. Just wants to grind, and I was afraid to force it. Its also a little tough getting in into reverse, but does go in with a little effort. I didn't cut the tranny tunnel, the car was built in 10/72, so I don't think I needed to cut it.

The clutch/pressure plate/release bearing/slave cylinder and hoses are all new and worked great with the 4 speed. Clutch master cylinder isn't new, but it worked fine with the 4 speed, so I think its good.

Does this sound like adjusting/bleeding is needed, or does is sound like my 5 speed needs a rebuild. I would guess that if it was adjusting/bleeding, I'd have trouble in all gears, not just 5th. I noticed that the 75 - 83 used a sleeve/bearing that appears to be different from whats in a 240. Could this be my problem? The 280ZX it came out of only had about 65K on it, but sat for about 10 years before I bought the tranny.

Any help would be great, thanks.

Which throwout bearing collar did you use? You need to use the one that came with the ZX tranny as it is different than the 240.

Marty

[Weasel73240Z]

Which throwout bearing collar did you use? You need to use the one that came with the ZX tranny as it is different than the 240.

Marty

Marty, I used the 240Z (4 speed) throwout bearing, because it was new only 2K miles ago....the one with the ZX tranny was junk. I thought that could be it once I looked in the BD catalog and saw they were different part #'s. Any one want to second that before I go to the expense of rebuilding the tranny? Anybody else had this issue using the wrong throwout bearing causing this issue only in 5th and reverse? Either way, the 5 speeds coming out the next few days, I'd just rather save the $300(?) that it'll cost to rebuild it, if possible.

The only reason I was thinking bad tranny was that the problem is only in 5th gear, although its a little tough downshifting also. I bled the slave yesterday, and re-checked all pedal adjustments, everything looks good.

[Weasel73240Z]

I just thought of something else which may indicate the wrong throwout bearing being my issue.

I took off the slave cylinder (didn't disconnect) from the side of the tranny, and I noticed that there was quite a bit of play in the clutch fork. I probably had to move the fork backward about 1/2" -3/4" before I felt it make contact with the springs on the pressure plate. I know the hydraulic action of the non-adjustable slave compensates for that when the slave is installed.

But shouldn't the TO bearing be just about in contact with the pressure plate even with no clutch at all. I only get about 1/2" of shaft movement at the slave when I depress the clutch pedal. Is some of the stroke being used up to compensate for a TO that's too small/short?

Thanks again for all the help.

[doradox]

It sounds like Marty is on the right track. The collar and bearing are pressed together so unless you took the bearing off the 240 collar and pressed it onto the ZX collar you are, as Marty said, using the wrong collar. When you say it's hard to get into reverse do you mean it grinds or is the shift lever hard to move? If you are grinding then your clutch is dragging, possibly due to the wrong collar. Grinding in 5th could be a weak synchro combined with a dragging clutch, or just a bad synchro. Is the lever free to fully engage 5th gear? Are you sure nothing is blocking it's movement? If the lever can't completely engage 5th that can cause a grind too.

Steve

[Marty Rogan]

Marty, I used the 240Z (4 speed) throwout bearing, because it was new only 2K miles ago....the one with the ZX tranny was junk. I thought that could be it once I looked in the BD catalog and saw they were different part #'s. Any one want to second that before I go to the expense of rebuilding the tranny? Anybody else had this issue using the wrong throwout bearing causing this issue only in 5th and reverse? Either way, the 5 speeds coming out the next few days, I'd just rather save the $300(?) that it'll cost to rebuild it, if possible.

The only reason I was thinking bad tranny was that the problem is only in 5th gear, although its a little tough downshifting also. I bled the slave yesterday, and re-checked all pedal adjustments, everything looks good.

Re-using your throwout bearing should be fine. As Steve has confirmed, you need to use the ZX "COLLAR" to press the bearing onto. One of the collars is shorter than the other (can't remember right now). Your best bet is to use the collar and fork that came with the ZX tranny.

Marty