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mikewags

Rear Toe Adjustment Cost

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Can someone throw me a quick figure as to how much a rear toe adjustment should cost. This is referring an earlier post about one of my tires being angled inwards, and needs to be adjusted.

Ball park. My car is in the shop and need to decide based on the cost.

Thanks!

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Mike,

The rear toe isn't adjustable on our cars.

It sounds like something is bent out of wack. Hopefully its just the control arm or the strut assembly - those are pretty easy to replace.

I'd suggest that you try to get either a mechanic that's familar with our cars, or one of the many other Florida Z owners to look at it to diagnose where your problem lies.

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I've got the car at the shop now with a guy who's a Z specialist. He's been working on Z's for over 30 years. I really just wanted an idea as to what i'll end up spending.

I'll update this later.

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What exactly did he tell you it needs? If the rear toe is off, he could offer anything from control arm replacement to eccentric delrin bushings, to "bend it back straight". Why is the toe off? Unless the car was hit in the rear, toe doesn't go out of whack on its own. We need more info before we can guess what it might cost.

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If I install the adjustable aluminum/Delrin inner LCA bushings I charge about 4 to 5 hours to get the car squared, the rear tracked, and the rear toe set correctly. If I had a $35,000 Hunter laser alignment rack it would take 1/3 of that time.

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Verdict is in...somewhat.

Right rear is angled in and left rear is angled out. Some sort of "plates" are bent. I'll know more later.

Control arm bushings need to be replaced as well. Worn out and cracked.

:/

Edited by mikewags

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I've got the car at the shop now with a guy who's a Z specialist.

What did your Specialist quote you to repair/replace?

Edited by zbane

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Mikewags:

If what you've said about your rear toe condition is accurate, your car's rear wants to track to the left. Does it?

There are no "plates," per se, in the rear of an S30. There are two points where each A-arm gets fastened to the unibody. If these are out of square, that means your entire rear had to have been whacked at some point in time. It seems more likely that there's something messed up with each A-arm, but that still would imply a great thwacking at some time in the past.

This whole "toe" thingy sounds fishy to me. Keep us updated.

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There are no "plates," per se, in the rear of an S30.

What about the big plates in the back??? These "uprights" or plates bolt to the frame rail and hang down in the back locate the rear of the rear control arms. I've heard of them cracking on ITS cars, but I haven't heard too many other problems, as I think they're generally so flexible that they don't break, even though is a really weak design in terms of positively locating the control arms.

There have also been various reports on the internet, I think first identified by John Coffey, where the strut spindle pin hole is bored at an angle, throwing off the rear toe.

And then of course you've got your bent suspension parts scenarios too.

I'd be inclined to do as Coffey suggested, get some Aluminum/Delrin G Machine bushings and deal with it that way. I'd take a real close look at the uprights back there if he want's to replace them. They just aren't a problem that I've seen come up on the forums very often, and I don't know where you'd get a set other than used or buying a Suspension Techniques rear anti-sway bar (the sway bar mounts right to the modified uprights that come in the kit).

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I haven't had any work done yet, but I did get a breakdown of the issue.

The way he described the issue, was that there were 2 plates that mount the suspension to the car itself - he said that they were slightly bent and needed to be replaced or machined. This was causing both rear tires to be off. (left rear slighty aimed out - right aimed right <in>) this is causing the car's rear to drive at an angle. Not dangerous, but will eat up the rear treads quicker.

Looking through the FSM, the only plate I see in the rear of the car is the Traverse Link Mounting Plates. Jmortenson: The plates you listed sound like the ones. Do you know the name of those?

I'll just ask him what the name of these 'plates' are in the AM. I'm a bit puzzled.

Edited by mikewags

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It has to be the transverse link mounting plates. Here's a picture I found in the gallery:

PDR_1473.JPG

The two black vertical plates that are about 4" wide and locate the rear control arm bushings are the parts in question.

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This was causing both rear tires to be off. (left rear slighty aimed out - right aimed right <in>) this is causing the car's rear to drive at an angle.

That's called the thrust angle. If the overall toe angle is still OK it won't really effect tire wear unless it's off by a lot. You were able to see it from the angle of the rear wheels so it probably is off by quite a bit. Your front wheels "automatically" steer a little one way or another to compensate. The wheels go down the road straight (with the front and rear a little offset from each other) but the body goes a little sideways. The term "dog tracking" is often used to describe that condition. We've all seen the dog that runs along with his rear end not quite following his front.

Steve

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Does Nissan sell these mounting plates new? He told me Nissan was having a hard time finding them.

Also, how common is it for these plates to get bent? He seems to think my car was bumped at some point (maybe while parked) - If they hit the metal bumper, i wouldn't have seen any damage. This caused the plates to slightly bend left, which is in cause changing the direction of the tires. The right back seems to have more of an angle inwards the the left rear (angled left).

Basically both tires are angled to the left.

JM: Thanks for the pic. It will help a lot.

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They should be easy to find at a JY. You might try Danny's Datsuns in Oregon also. I'm not sure what he has left since he downsized his Z parts business, but it's worth a try. He is a sponser at zcars.com, so you can find his banner there. You could also buy fancy billet ones from arizonazcar.com. His are PURDY!

http://www.arizonazcar.com/diffmount.html

Edited by Jeff G 78
Added link

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I talked to him this Morning. It turns out that it is the Transverse Link Mounting plates that he believes are the problem. He says they will have to come out to see if they are in fact bent, although he is confident this is it. He's had to deal with this problem 10 other times in the past 30 years he says.

I told him i might have to order them from Arizona, and he mentioned Arizonazcar.com - I'm confident he knows his stuff.

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The transverse link mounting plates get bent if there's a side hit on one of the rear wheels or one of the rear wheels runs over a really big something. These plates and the transverse link itself tend to move/bend as a unit before the front diff cross member moves. Sometimes what appears to a bent transverse link mounting plate is actually the plate twisted slightly, taking up whatever bolt hole clearance there is. Any loose fastener in this assembly will cause an alignment problem.

Its pretty easy to straighten these plates once they are off the car.

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I've never had this problem, but those parts are simple, stamped steel. There "should" be right angles between each plane. I would think that any suspension guy with an oxyactylene torch would be able to straighten out such deviations. After all, there's a likelihood (albeit small) of finding simlar out-of-square parts at a junk yard.

If you're going to get replacement parts, call Eric Neyerlin (Zparts.com) at his new Winston, Oregon location (541-679-0791). If he has them, he'll have good ones and at a reasonable price.

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I talked with John (gnosez) on the phone and he provided me with some really good advice on how to go about determining what is wrong here. The likelihood of the plates being bent out of alignment seems unlikely, albeit possible.

I am going to get an estimate from my mechanic as to how much it will cost in labor to check the plates for me and replace (if they are bad) - along with the replacement of all the necessary bushings that have gone bad. From what the estimate reflect, I will then come to a conclusion on whether or not I will be checking the toe/plates myself.

If the plates are indeed bad, John will be hooking me up with some replacements.

Once again, I will keep everyone updated. I appreciate the responses to this unique situation - hopefully I can get this ironed out and see what is truly causing these alignment issues.

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If you are mechanically inclined, it only takes a short time to remove the plates yourself. As has been said, the plates have a right angle. Each side should be flat and the angle at 90 degrees where it meets the chassis. 4 bolts and they are out.

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I did indeed have an opportunity to discuss this issue MikeWags today and it seems that the left rear wheel is toeing out and the right is toeing in.

That would mean the entire rear suspension is canted off to the left a few degrees.

I suggested he get an alignment (by laser) done before proceeding with any further work so he can determine how much of an issue it is. The delron bushings could help with a small alignment tweak.

We also discussed removing the plates (as Randy said it's 8 bolts and nothing else needs to be removed) and that he could use a small machine square to determine if the plates were bent before he took them out as well.

Mike says the car has not been hit in the time he has owned it and the issue has just come up.

All the bushings are 31 yrs old, so one or more or the RCA/spindle pin bushings could be bad.

I must have a dozen sets of plates from S30s I've stripped and not one of them is bend or damaged. Strange problem....

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Interesting. Please keep us updated as to what the final answer turns out to be. Hopefully replacing the plates will straighten it up. New bushings are in order either way if they are original.

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Mike, I just picked up a full rear suspension from a 77' 280Z for an R200 swap, and don't need the transverse link member mounting brackets. If you still need them PM me and I'll send them to you for my cost plus shipping.

.

Edited by =Enigma=

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*BUMP*

I've been pretty sick lately, and haven't gotten the estimate back from the mechanic yet. I will let you guys know whats up with this issue in the next few days.

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