What did you cover when undercoating?

[xray]

I just put Herculiner on my Zs undercarriage, but it hasn't been driven since...You may want to PM member Ed as he has done it, and has driven his car a bit. I think his resto finished maybe 6 months ago or so. Test of time? Who knows.

BUT, if you have some rust under there you may want to consider grinding it off and using a POR-15 or Eastwood Rust Encapsulator product prior to undercoating as wediscussed earlier in the thread....

Good luck,

Steve

[Ed]

What each person uses for undercoating is up to them. Some won't use it at all because it hides what is happening underneath. Others use if for sound insulation or to protect the paint. Personally I didn't use the rattle can undercoating because of the facts previously mentioned. Basically it's tar in a can, it gets hard over time and it is pourus.

Marduke, your at a stage right now where you have to think about what kind of finish you want. Clean painted or undercoated. Eather way you have to protect the bare metal. This is your # 1 priority. Use a paint that has been tested and recommended. I used the POR-15 product because it was easy to apply (paint brush) and it was recommended. Over the POR I applied chassis coat black which is another POR-15 product. And to finish it off I used the Herculiner. Overkill? Probably. Worth it? Yes. Will I have to do this again? Not to this car. I'd bet money that this undercoating will last 30+ years. And another benifit of using the Herculiner is that if you have to repair some part of your car or part of the Herculiner chips you can patch and repair that part and cover it with a fresh coat of Herculiner. It will adhere to itself.

Marduke, I'm sure you don't want to go through the process of having to strip your underbelly again. So do some more homework and do it right the first time.

Oh yea, my car still looks great! Like the day I applied it.

[dogma420]

I personally would always question a car with undercoating if I were to sell my car with undercoating or go to buy one...maybe its just me.

Now if the car had POR15 with chassis coat black, that is completely different. The application doesn't hide anything like undercoating looks like it could--plus its a great product, very durable, and if there is something wrong with the metal underneath, it is easily seen. POR15 looks like just a paint coating, and undercoating, no matter how good it is, to me IMHO looks on the surface like a 'filler'.

I've always prepped and tried to finish my car with the point of 'hey if I sold this tomorrow, how would I do this to increase its value or make the seller feel better about this car?'...heh, not that I'm going to sell my car, but in 30 years when I give it to my son, if he does sell it (and he better damn sell it after I'm dead and gone) I just don't want the undercoating there...kind of a philosophy..

With that said, of course I am probably in the few with this philosophy in mind...everyone can do what they want...Zsonthebrain and Ed have very beautiful cars, that I can only dream of attaining one day. Don't get me wrong; I'd trade my car a thousand times to Ed for his '73 I mean I love that car!

By the way, because my starter went out on my daily driver, I've been driving my Zed for the last 2 weeks. Boy did I miss driving her! Nothing like driving my Z! Everytime I think 'why do I have such a old money pit?' All I have to do is go drive her...they have got to be one of the funnest cars around. And they are so rare nowadays...it's been weeks since I saw a 240 in Portland...I feel so alone...

[280z1975]

I personally would always question a car with undercoating if I were to sell my car with undercoating or go to buy one...maybe its just me.

Now if the car had POR15 with chassis coat black, that is completely different. The application doesn't hide anything like undercoating looks like it could--plus its a great product, very durable, and if there is something wrong with the metal underneath, it is easily seen. POR15 looks like just a paint coating, and undercoating, no matter how good it is, to me IMHO looks on the surface like a 'filler'.

I've always prepped and tried to finish my car with the point of 'hey if I sold this tomorrow, how would I do this to increase its value or make the seller feel better about this car?'...heh, not that I'm going to sell my car, but in 30 years when I give it to my son, if he does sell it (and he better damn sell it after I'm dead and gone) I just don't want the undercoating there...kind of a philosophy..

... snip...

The whole resell thing is important to note, so I understand your reasons, but I would be very comfortable buying a car that has been undercoated that has been properly documented for it's repair and application. In addition to keeping 100's of photos of my refreshment for being able to put the car back together right, I am taking them to make a little book of the teardown, work, and application. That way if someone questions my work or the job done I can simply show them in photos what's been done and the quality of the work.

Also, as far as Por-15 ... I have to say I have become a big fan of this stuff since I started to use it. The inside of my car looks soooooo much better after using it and it's VERY tough. I was pulling the hoses off my expansion tank and had it up against the Por-15 treated surface and it didn't even mark it!. Plus I wouldn't feel comfortable having my car anywhere they use salt without some sort of hard bonding substance like Por-15.

In fact. I did a little test the other day on the ramps I have where I added P0r-15 and then some Herculiner bedcoating to them to practice. When I pulled Sentra was backed off the bottom sraped them and it was the Sentra that lost! It's some tough $^!#! These ramps are soooo old (my grandfathers from probably the 1960's) and they look awesome now.

[Marduke]

Thanks for the input guys. I think I am going to go the herculiner route. I think with some good photo documentation of the rust repair I have done any potential buyers would be placated. Not that I'll probably sell it anyway.

Thanks again.

[dogma420]

280Z1975--

I totally agree with you; someone that has documented the undercoat process and the vehicle is obviously meticulously cared for makes the 'trust' factor of having undercoat on a vehicle increase dramatically.

I guess what I was referring to doesn't involve us Zed freaks so much as just a general rule if you're looking at a car 'blind'....if you don't know the history other than what the person selling the car says (and this person is biased because they want to sell the car)...then if nothing else is known or no/little information is available, undercoating normally is a warning flag on a vehicle...it is highlighted, in bold, and underlined in regards to a used 240z. Such as one being sold on ebay...if it has fresh undercoat and has some things that make you question what is going on with the vehicle, then undercoating makes my trust value go considerably down. That's all I meant.

Someone that has documented the process and their main purpose is to avoid problems with the undercarraige and are very knowledgeable about why and how they did the process, that's different. I feel that undercoating in this aspect, like Zsonthebrain or Ed have done, definitely increase the vehicle's value and is highly desireable.

[59blane]

I was curious as to how well the Heruliner over POR-15 was holding up Ed? It looks great in the pics and sounds like what I might do myself. Did you prep the POR-15 Chassis Black before putting on the Herculiner?

bruce

[Ed]

I was curious as to how well the Heruliner over POR-15 was holding up Ed? It looks great in the pics and sounds like what I might do myself. Did you prep the POR-15 Chassis Black before putting on the Herculiner?

bruce

She looks as good as the day I put it on. No chips or any signs of dammage. To prep the surface follow the directions on the Herculiner can.

Rough-up the surface with a Scotch-Brite pad. Then wipe clean with some ?????, I can't remember the name of the solvent. The same stuff we use to clean up the tar residue. Some one help. The can will tell you.

HTH.

Ed

[59blane]

Great! I think the texture of the Herculiner looks really good. I'll bet with the combination of POR-15 and Herculiner you could pretty much take a jack hammer to it with no ill effects... :-)

bruce

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:

First let me say that everyone who has applied any undercoating discussed and/or shown in this thread - has in my opinion done a very professional and good looking job. I have no personal heart burn with anyone/everyone doing what ever they believe is the best thing for them and their car.

Nor in any way am I suggesting that anyone do anything based on what someone else may or may not think.

I also state up front that on any 240-Z that's going the full custom route - it won't matter what is done. I realize that this discussion is in the "Modified Z's" subject area..

All that said - I feel that it should be stated, it should be at least considered... that at some point in the future an owner may want, or need, to become a seller.

Sit two otherwise identical cars, both "restored" or "refreshed" to professional standards, side by side... put them up on a lift for complete inspection by a potential buyer.... and the car without any undercoating will most likely sell first, and sell for far more money.

Why?

1. Because the Datsun 240-Z's, if they had any undercoating at all - had a very limited amount, sprayed in very limited areas by the factory. Buyers willing to pay the highest prices for the best cars want them to be as close to factory original as possible.

The undercoatings sprayed by the factory were of the rubberized types, and were over-sprayed with the original body color.

2. Thick undercoating - by and large - are all too often used to cover poor metal work, or sloppy fiberglass and bondo jobs... no matter how neat, it just turns prospective buyers of Classic Cars off.

3. From a restoration perspective.. and a preservation perspective a waterproof undercoating can hid for too long, rust that is attacking the metal on top of what it covers on the underside,... just as the tar mats hold moisture and allow rust to form under them from the inside, while hiding it from plain view.

Personally, if I had the entire undercarriage on a 240-Z stripped to bare metal - I'd POR-15 it.. then I'd replace the paintable rubberized undercoating, in the places it originally was... and lastly I'd spray the entire undercarriage body color.

As I said above - just something that should be considered on an individual basis by anyone going to the extent of a bare metal undercarriage... refresh or restore.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Ed]

Good Point Carl,

And I hope people take this into consideration before undercoating with anything. I went back and forth trying to decide what to do. And like you said a painted undercarrage looks cleaner and doesn't hide anything. Personally I wouldn't buy a car with a bunch of undercoating. Like you said you don't know if the owner is trying to hide some kind of damage.

The main reason I decided to go with the undercoating and not just paint is because I have no intention of ever selling my Z. And I hope my daughter doesn't either..

[beandip]

She looks as good as the day I put it on. No chips or any signs of dammage. To prep the surface follow the directions on the Herculiner can.

Rough-up the surface with a Scotch-Brite pad. Then wipe clean with some ?????, I can't remember the name of the solvent. The same stuff we use to clean up the tar residue. Some one help. The can will tell you.

HTH.

Ed

Ed , since I have covered much of my underside with POR , and as you know . It is so darn hard to scratch the por to provide tooth for anything to stick . What do you think of using some Ticoat primer on the POR first then the undercoat of your choice. I have most of a qt. of Ticoat left over from when I finished the engine bay and shot the rest of the Z . I think if I do use the primer I would brush it on , because of the over spray would be hard to controll .