Arne

They're listed in the classifieds here on this site, too. Man, am I damn glad I don't need 'em.

Yup. In 30+ years of car and truck ownership, I've never had body and paint work of any kind that was completed on time. Not once. Oops! The shop that re-welded the tailgate hinge plate on the red 240Z for me last Fall met the deadline. No paint involved though...

Does your car still have the original flat-top carbs? Or has it been swapped to something different?

Here's my latest thoughts: All inspection and evidence indicates that my red car's finishers have never been refinished. There is an obvious difference in color on my car from left to right. Close inspection now leads me to believe that my car suffers from both sun fading (primarily on the right side) and exhaust discoloration (obviously on the left side). The symptoms are that the left side is darker and gradually fades to lighter as you go right. On the left, the darker color is not just on the face, but also extends to the top surface where the plastic rivets attach it to the body. This would be consistent with exhaust discoloration, as the exhaust could easily get up there as well. But on the much lighter right side of the car, the same top flange where the rivets go is darker than the visible surface. Not quite as dark as the exhaust stained left side, but close. I attribute this to the inability of the sunlight to get to this area. The color/shade of protected area on the right finisher is indistinguishable to my eyes to that of my near-NOS 'D' hubcaps (which came from a car built around 4 or 5/71). Numerous people have stated that the paint from CDM is absolutely correct for the 'D' hubcaps. Which brings me back to the conclusion that - for my 7/71 car at least - the color/shade of the finishers (and presumably the grill as well) is either the same as the 'D' hubcaps or so close as to be indistinguishable. So in my case, the paint offered by Les at CDM is either correct, or so close as to not matter. This may or may not be the case for earlier or later production cars, as it is extremely possible that the shade of the paint used may have varied slightly over the production run. Frankly, that only makes sense. But I'm satisfied with this conclusion for my car.

Another thought - you may be able to break the head of the bolt off by using a drill and some high quality bits.

Since it loosened a couple turns and then seized back up, here's my take on it. I suspect a slight head gasket leak which allowed a bit of coolant to get to that seized bolt. The bolt now has a thick ring of corrosion or mineral deposits on the shaft just above the threads. As you try to remove the bolt the thick ring on the shaft is too large to go through the hole in the head, and that is where the bolt is stuck. Sounds unlikely, but I have personally experienced this very same thing on an L24. Options? There are only two that I can think of. If you can get to it (depending on which bolt it is), cut the head off the bolt. Then you will be able to lift the head off, and I think you'll find the the headless bolt will be easily removed. If the bolt is one of the ones where you can't get to it to cut the head off, you're going to have to use your breaker bar with an additional extension for more leverage (a pipe slipped over the end works well) and reef on it until the bolt breaks. (This is what I had to do on mine.) In this case, have all the other bolts loose so that no warping pressure is applied to the head itself. If my suspicion about the thick build-up on the bolt is correct, the bolt will break somewhere between the head of the bolt and the build-up on the shaft. Then you can lift the head off the block. And again, I suspect the remnant of the bolt will easily unthread once it is broken.

Only you can put a value on the sentimental part. For the rest of it, it will be far, far more affordable to replace it with a better example than it will to repair one that is as far gone as yours sounds. Sorry, but it's the truth.

Agreed. It seems to me that not many of the factory parts had the country of origin marked on them in that way back in the early '70s.

After following this thread (and ignoring the bickering), here are my conclusions.1.) The evidence for and against slightly differing colors being used on the grills, hubcaps and tail finishers is inconclusive, mostly anecdotal, and often contradictory. None of which is surprising after 30+ years have gone by. 2.) Because no firm conclusions can be made, the question is moot for 99+% of the cars still on the road - those which will never be judged at a high level. Even for the best of these cars, the paint that Les at CDM sells is plenty close enough, and will likely be considered "correct" at any venue they may be a part of. 3.) For the very few cars competing at a high level, the question may not be moot, but it may still be impossible to be "right". Since there is no clear consensus even among the most knowledgeable people on this forum (and we DO have some really knowledgeable people here), the judges at any given event may be judging based on a different conclusion than yours. If you use Les' paint and the judge believes that the original was lighter, you're wrong. But another judge at a different event may believe that the darker color is correct. So it might be a roll of the dice. You know, when I started with my 240Z project(s), I told myself that I wouldn't get obsessed with strict originality. This was because I felt that toeing that line with the restoration of my MGB a few years back hampered my ultimate enjoyment of the car. This vow didn't mean I couldn't follow discussion like this with interest, but I really didn't plan on worrying too much about stuff like this. Close counts, was what I figured. This promise was easy to keep with my yellow car, since it is/was not matching numbers, and has now had a transmission swap from auto to manual. Who cares if the color of the tail finishers is absolutely dead-nuts accurate? Close counts. The addition of the red 240Z to my stable (with its almost startling originality in many ways) has made it much harder to keep that vow. For example, look at the recent shift boot thread. For the yellow car I wouldn't think twice about using the later lace-up boot, even though we all agree that the '70 and '71 cars should have the grommet-style boot. But for the red car, I feel I need to find/make the proper early style boot. I can't quite bear to use an obviously non-original replacement for a rare original part on the red car. But I do not plan to enter the red car in concours-level events. I plan to keep it as original as possible, but I will drive it - as much as possible. So it's going to get rock chips, and it will be dirty now and then. That's life. Because of that, I figure my car is one of the 99+% for which Les' paint is "close enough" and that is what I'll use.

Sounds right to me as well, my 7/71 car also has the early ashtray and boot.

Hmm.... I've not yet seen anything like that on my red car (the original one), but it's not all that early at 7/71. A quick glance through the parts CD doesn't show it, but that's not conclusive either.

Wattage isn't the issue, Steve. Amperage is the big deal. The stock headlight fuse is 20 amps. An average halogen 55 watt bulb is said to draw a bit more than 5 amps, so two of them are less than 15 amps. So if your wiring is in great shape, you should be fine. But the odds are that your wiring may have a fair amount of resistance after 30+ years, which is why the relays are so strongly recommended. That said, for the time being I replaced the original Koito sealed beams in my 240Z with some low-cost Neolite H4 lights. (Went with the Neolites because they have a round face similar to the sealed beams. Didn't want to have the flat face of my preferred Hellas in the 240Z.) I do not have any relays in mine, but as a low mileage car my wiring is in better than average condition. But I still plan on using relays before I start driving the car a lot.

Marty, the boot on the left in post #22 is very familiar looking to me - but not from either of my Datsuns. I THINK it might be the original boot from a late '80s or early '90's VW Jetta. I believe that it is the same as the one that came on my wife's '91 GLI 16v when we bought it new. I can't swear to that, not because the car is gone (we still have it), but the original boot is history. That's certainly what your picture reminds me of, even the stitching.

I'd also be interested in the style with the rubber grommet. I still have my grommet available.

The second slot in the console of '70 and '71 240Zs was for a hand throttle, which most cars in the USA did not get because the DOT ruled them as bad. Search for "hand throttle" and you'll get all the info you want. The air pump is solely an emission control device. But there is no real gain to be had from removing it. The only effect it has on the car's power or drivability is a small parasitic power loss, some fraction of a HP to spin the pump itself. All its effects are in the exhaust, downstream of the combustion chambers. Removing it will not make any difference that you can feel, will not change the way the engine runs in any way, and maybe not even enough difference to be measured on a dyno. That being the case, and since it does help reduce emissions, please consider leaving it intact, if it is all there and still working.

Try here: http://store.classicgarage.com/nid2426piset.html

Welcome, Joe! While you'll find a bit of bias on this site towards the early cars, they're all fun, all special, and all welcome here. Keep us posted on what you end up buying.

I'll have to disagree with your opinion on that. The right side on my red car is obviously badly faded, when compared to any protected area of the finishers. Not only when comparing to the left side, but under the license plate, and at the top where the plastic rivets hold it (which is protected by the tailgate) on the same right panel. Any place on that right panel that has been protected by the sun is much darker, basically the same color as the hubcaps. They show absolutely no signs of ever having been repainted, either on the front, edges or back side. (Yes, I've personally had them off the car and checked.) So I'm at a loss to figure out how you can determine that the 'original' color is the obviously sun-faded pale color. I've seen pictures of cars with pale gray finishers before, and they always look wrong to me. (And yes, I'm old enough to remember seeing 240Zs when they were new.)So when I refinish my red car's grill and finishers, I will use the dark paint from Les. If you want to use the pale color, go ahead. It's your car, and your decision. But all the available evidence on my original un-restored car points to the dark color being original.

I have a late '71 with 60,000 miles, and the tail finishers and grill have never been repainted, as far as I can tell. I also have set of 'D' hubcaps that are near mint, were removed when the car was new and have been stored away from sunlight their entire life. The grill is obviously lighter in color than the hubcaps. But the effects of 35 years of sun on the grill are not easy to determine. On the other hand, as you can see in the attached picture, the tail finishers have obviously faded, and faded rather unevenly - probably due to the sun coming through a previous owner's garage window on the passenger side. The right side of the car's finisher is quite pale in color, getting darker towards the left side. The far left edge is much darker, and appears (to my eye) to be the same color as both the area protected by the license plate, and also the same my near-NOS hubcaps. I tried to take a picture to show this comparison to the hubcap, but the picture can't show subtle differences like this. Additionally, the finishers on my early car (10/70) also appear to not have ever been refinished. But for some reason they have not faded like those on the Series 2 car have. They are nice and dark, and definitely appear to be the same color as my 'D' hubcaps. I don't have a real good picture of these, but in the attached picture look at the left side of the car where it is not in the shadows. So when I refinish mine, I'll be quite satisfied if the grill and finishers are the same color as my hubcaps. (I'll most probably use the paint from Les at Classic Datsuns.) If there was any difference in color when the cars were new, it was very minor, and I don't think it will be significant.

Update - It was pointed out to me by someone else that the seller's feedback indicates that he bought the car in November on eBay for $8725. Not sure why he's trying to sell it so soon. I doubt it's a scam, since the record that he bought it a couple of months ago it is right there for everyone to see. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130041458369 But if you go back and look at the pictures from THAT auction, you'll see the missing info - the car was originally blue, and the engine compartment still is. And while most of the car looks OK, the engine compartment itself is a bit shabby looking. Considering the color change along with the other small issues, this would be an expensive car to restore to stock. Could probably still be a great daily driver, though. But the bidding is already as high as I'd want to go for a driver with non-original color. At least for us here out West. So... not sure why he's selling it now, maybe his wife isn't as supportive as some of ours are.

Yeah, looks pretty good. Must be a 7/71 or 8/71 build date, with that VIN. About twice as many miles as mine, the front emblem has been shaved, and it has a modern stereo. Amco rear bumper bar, and very vintage 6 slot mags. Sure looks like a great car, assuming the rest of it checks out as rust-less as the parts pictured. But no mention of rust at all...

Was that supposed to be your inside voice, Bryan?

One what? Which part(s) are you missing?

I don't think so. I think its a PCV valve. Looks exactly like the valves on both my '71s, and also the '83 ZX motor I had too. Should be a big hose (3/4-1" diameter) leading from the breather tube on the driver's side front of the block (under the thermostat housing) going up to the intake manifold somewhere. The PCV valve screws into the manifold and the hose attaches to it.

One of my '71s: