Matthew Abate

Yeah, I'm lost now. Maybe Eurodat will weigh in. /M

I always thought it was the case that made it a B or a C, but I don't know jack about transmissions other than how the math works, so who knows. I asked the guy to check the number of rotations, so we'll see what he comes back with. If it's a 3.321 it's moot, because I can get that from a 280z. In other news, I found a 5 speed from an '82 ZX.", so...

Stamp on the housing says TA71B #1.

I don't actually own it yet, and it's two states away, so I can't tear it open. The guy who has it can't tell me which car it is, and it hasn't been rebuilt or anything. I have a feeling that I might be able to get it for under $100, which is why I'm interested. No idea what a bell housing will cost me, so I'm trying to evaluate the merits of the project. So the CA series engines also used the Z series bell housing? The pictures I have of the one I am looking at definitely match a Z series pictures you posted above, and I knew going into the conversation that the bell housing would need swapping. Haven't looked into how hard sourcing a bell housing is, but have been looking into the aftermarket brands like Lakewood (perhaps foolishly?). I originally had my eyes on transmissions from 280Zs and ZXs, but the more research I did the more Nissan & Datsun cars I found with 71Bs in them, and the more I found the more I liked the ratios of some of those other cars more. The tall 3.545 first gear pair with the short 0.813 fifth gear PLUS the smooth spacing of everything in between makes the 1983 200SX / S12 71B seem like the best option, but it's sounding like you guys don't recommend it. Maybe the difference is negligible enough that it's not worth the effort unless I have all the stuff just laying around, but Datsun 5-speeds are going for $700+ and this funky beast is cheep by comparison.

Thanks! This is super valuable info. i don't actually own it yet, and it's two states away, so I can't tear it open. The guy who has it can't tell me which car it is, and it hasn't been rebuilt or anything. I have a feeling that I might be able to get it for under $100, which is why I'm interested. No idea what a bell housing will cost me, so I'm trying to evaluate the merits of the project. To your other point, I started this thread before I found the active one. I'll switch to the other one.

Someone on Hybridz.org pointed me to this: http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/240sxtransmissioninstall/ Not sure how much of that is applicable, since we're talking about the B transmission. I already see a couple of details on that link that might be wrong (i.e. Didn't the C transmission start coming with the 200x in '84?) I'm pretty sure I could find a bell housing from a Z to bolt on, and the jackshaft bearing from a ZX is straight forward. The thing giving me pause is modifying the bell housing to accommodate the CA20 shifter rods. Would it not be better to use shifter rods off a Z/ZX? Is that even possible? This is foreign territory for me. Another open question is whether or not this transmission is strong enough to work with a ZX engine. I've read the 200x B is weak (not sure why). The ratios might be right for me, but is this as good as or better than a ZX transmission as far as reliability goes? I'd love to find a bolt in solution that down't need any modification, and the '83-84 ratios seem ideal, but the T5 sounds like it could be an even better option because the ratios aren't that far off, parts availability is better, and it might be stronger, but getting that into the car sounds like way more work than getting the 200sx B transmission in.

I have another thread going in the parts swap section about the 83/84 200sx FS5w71b. Anyone know how much it needs modifying and how hard it is to do to get it to fit a 240z/280z? Can't seem to find anyone who's done it. /M

Other than being bent to sh!t, what's weird? /M

I've found tons of info about adapting a FS5w71c into a 240z, but I can't find anything about using the 200SX / S12 version of the FS5w71b 5-speed in an S30 other than a little comment on this page: '83-10/'84 200sx w/CA20 and the truck # 3 use same ratios. This is often touted as the best gearsets for a 4-cylinder 510. Very low 1st gear for fast starting acceleration and smooth progression of jumps between ratios. For use with an L-series, a 280Z/ZX style bellhousing must be swapped onto the CA20 tranny case and bellhousing modified to match with larger diameter CA20 shifter rods, and use smaller OD 280zx jackshaft bearing. I'm interested in this transmission because of the ratios (3.592, 2.057, 1.361, 1.000, and 0.813) being so similar to the FS4w71b ratios that came with the car, and that 5th gear having longer legs for highway driving. It really seems like the optimal ratio spread. My question really is, presuming I were able to get my hands on one, how hard is it to do the work described above. I can't seem to find an example of anyone having done it.

I've found tons of info about adapting a FS5w71c into a 240z, but I can't find anything about using the 200SX / S12 version of the FS5w71b 5-speed in an S30 other than a little comment on this page: I'm interested in this transmission because of the ratios (3.592, 2.057, 1.361, 1.000, and 0.813) being so similar to the FS4w71b ratios that came with the car, and that 5th gear having longer legs for highway driving. It really seems like the optimal ratio spread. My question really is, presuming I were able to get my hands on one, how hard is it to do the work described above. I can't seem to find an example of anyone having done it.

Here's another useful resource for specifications: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/list-datsun.html

Some pics from the block inspection: ... Looks like someone turned the crank with the head off. The chain is trashed. The cylinders still have cross hatching. A quick check puts them in at 85.725, but need to double check that. Factory is 86.1, right? All told, this was a very good purchase.

Awesome. Thanks. Now I can copy you. /M

Also, check out this gem of a page with a bunch of data on gear ratios that I was missing: http://newprotest.org/projects/510/gearRatios.pl /M

Here's what he got: /M Plus the pan and some other bits. The head is in the mail.

That's because it is an Aston Martin V8 /M

Whatever happened with this? /M

Planning to use shield gas. Chuck Buczeskie is going to send me a list of supplies to make sure I have everything, but that's a great tip on the settings. Thanks. Thanks for the spacing tip, Mark. That gives me a better sense of how to cut the car prior to clamping. I think I'll spend a month or so practicing on scrap, or at least until I can make a clean weld with good penetration without warping the metal. ... In other news, my dad just called me to tell me he nabbed an F54 block and a P90a head for my birthday. This was an unexpected surprise as I had planned to run the engine I have until I had a sense of what I wanted to change. I think he really just wanted another engine rebuild project to do, but I'm not going to complain! Any tips on how to proceed with that are much appreciated. It'll definitely be NA, so I will repurpose as much of the stuff on my current engine as possible. /M

So it turns out the guy thought I wanted them to do the whole project even though I had specified just stripping, painting, and metal work. We'll see what he says. As far as not giving estimates goes, anyone who can't give me an idea of the possible range is not doing business well, regardless of what the industry standard is. This is different from an estimate, and contracts should be written in such a way so as to make sure the job doesn't get into a jam, but refusing to scope the project outright is BS. And as far as AZ is concerned, I had a 1965 Corvair stripped, dipped, epoxy coated, and painted, plus under coat for $8,000 in 2000. Inflation hasn't climbed 8 times, so it's either a premium the Barrett Jackson crowd is pulling or some other crazy BS. /M

I ended up impulse buying a Hobart Handler 140 from northern tool because I had a couple coupons that didn't cancel each other out, plus free shipping, so not a bad deal even if I maybe should have gone up a notch, or maybe a different brand if I hadn't had the deal. /M

Update: This project isn't dead, It's just not moving. I spent the last few months doing research and getting my garage in order for snow. so there isn't a whole lot of room or time to do anything to the Z directly. But I have been working on my Z knowledge. Two developments: I bout new floor panels from Zed. I learned how to weld. Now, to be sure, I suck at welding. I need some serious practice and don't feel confident that I could do the floors correctly at the moment. But I will keep practicing as I look for a shop to paint my car. Maybe I'll get good enough before I find one and end up doing it myself. Maybe I'll end up finding one and just having them do it. Either way all the supplies and materials are in hand so my knowledge is the only thing holding it up. Finding a shop in northern New Jersey is proving pretty tough, though. They seem to want about 8 times what it would cost me in Arizona, where I lived the last time I did this. I'm also looking into a new engine. I don't need one, but I am inclined to go 2800cc and sell my non-original-to-the-car '73 engine, keeping the '72 SUs and whatever else can be repurposed. Right now I'm leaning F54/P79, but I would love to hear that an E88 the better choice, because I have one of those right now. Anyway… ONWARD!

By the way, this is the description of the car that I sent to these shops:

So on Friday I sent emails to about 7 car restorers and body shops in northeast New Jersey to get informations so I can choose a shop. These places ranged from auto body shops that do new cars and collision repair to antique car restorers that specialize in porsches and American midcentury stuff. So far everyone is refusing to give me an estimate, even ballpark, which I kind of understand but kind of don't I work in a field that is prone to scope creep and schedule slips due to unforeseen issues (digital experience design), so I get that people don't want to get locked into estimates that are wilding out of line, but I also know that once you've done similar projects more than twice you can get fairly close, given the condition that the budget is renegotiated after things pop up. Long story short, the first response I got back quantified the labor for stripping, welding in new floors and filling belt line trim holes, dipping, epoxy priming, 3-stage painting, and undercoating at 950 hours or more at $85 / hour. This seems insane to me. Can anyone give me an idea of what this kind of bodywork should take, labor wise? Or conversely, can someone talk me into not doing all of this stuff? I understand that dipping could probably be the first thing cut from my list, but I have seen a lot of projects that get completely stripped and quality paint done, and I can't imagine that that many people are over investing in their Zs.

Did this today: /M

Try a wet on wet application. If the chemical compositions of the two paints are compatible they should fuse without causing any blistering or crinkling. Then it's just a question of how well the base layer sticks. /M