Carl Beck

Hi Mark (everyone) I only mention this as a point of information: A friend of mine's father "USED" to own one of the better show chrome plants in Florida. So I had an opportunity to spend a little time with the Chemists they had working for them. My friends father and the Chemist both had 30+ years in the Aerospace and Defense industry - where most times "cost" has no bearing on the product, but quality is everything. I see that the Plant you recommend lists Cadmium Plating with options for Bright, Black, Chromate, Olive Drab.. The original parts on the Z's were indeed Yellow Chromated Bright Cadmium. Because of the EPA requirements for handling toxic and heavy metals.. 95% of the plating companies today in the US don't "actually" use Cadmium. Because consumer's are usually clueless.. If you call a Plating Company or visit one- and you say that you have small parts that were Cad. plated - and ask them if they can re-plate them - they will just say "sure". You'll send them the parts - get them back - and they won't quite have the exact same look as the originals. The usual reason is - they didn't Cad. plate them to begin with, rather they used a zinc plating, and yellow chromate dip... Parts plated with either Zinc or Cadmium both come out with a somewhat dull silver appearance, and when next processed with a Chromate.. they come out with a yellow/gold look. The zinc parts will not have quite that deep golden huge, with the same rainbow of colors that parts plated with cadmium will have. If you make it perfectly clear that the process you want MUST be a bright cadmium - not ZINC.. usually they will say something like; "oh.. well we don't actually use cadmium, we use zinc - but it looks the same".... If you don't say anything about it they won't either. You can also expect to pay a lot more for the use of real cadmium. The quality at which your parts will come out of the plating process - will depend upon how nearly perfect the small parts are that went into the process. Some shops do a great job of cleaning the parts up - and then polishing them up to near new condition. Other shops will clean the parts before plating and plate them... flaws and all. Still other shops will simply plate what you send, and expect that you have cleaned/polished them. So you have to assure that the parts are to be not only cleaned but also polished (so to speak) or understand fully exactly what will be done and by who. The whole plating process is can be a mine field... so be careful out there.. Communicate with the plating company and clearly define what you expect the end result to look like and the quality of the parts your expecting to receive back. Pin them down to very specific explanation of the exact process and materials used. I'm not an expert on plating - only relaying my personal experience and what experts have told me. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

That very well could be. There are lots of guys that constantly buy/sell at the auctions. Sometimes something listed as "sold" had the deal fall though later when some defect was found on the car or title.. I dobut anyone in that arena would think they could being a car to Florida from BJ in AZ and see a price increase... FWIW, Carl B.

A bit banged up but looks pretty good underneath actually. Certainly not a "restoration" in my sense of the term - at that auction it should bring bids in the $8K to $10K range... anything under that and it's a bargain if the rest of the car checks out..OK Carl B. Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi dat240z71 If your not auto-Xing nor racing - then a Sports Seat might not be the best choice, the side bolsters on the Sports Seats can be a bit bothersome while getting in/out of the car on a daily basis, and as Ron mentioned seats designed to hold you firmly in place for Sport - can be a bit restrictive on longer highway trips. Some of the manufacturers produce models with designs that provide additional body support for Grand Touring, but allow more adjustability and movement. They usually have lower side bolsters to allow easier egress and exit. Personally, a friend gave me a set of Acura Integra seats out of a then new 98 model. They fit in the 240-Z almost perfectly and provide far greater comfort for my old body... a big plus for me is that they have removable head restraints.. meaning they have lower backs that I can see around easily. See: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/AcuraSeats/AcuraBeck.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/AcuraSeats/AcuraBeck.htm</a> FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Dave: I didn't mean to sound like I was attempting to correct anyone's etiquette, only attempting to further the discussion. No question we can at times get very far afield with our ramblings.. As far as I am aware the Datsun 280Z was sold only in North America. HLS30 is the coupe and GHLS30 is the 2+2. Why Nissan retained the "H" to designate the L28 after using it to designate the L24 earlier, then using the "R" to designate the L26 - only they know for sure. The Datsun 280Z sold well here and today they seem to be keeping pace in the price range with the 240-Z's. The factory A/C, 5spd. and better sound/heat insulation are favored by many and with the L28E they retained much of the original 240-Z's performance. About the only down side to them here was the addition of the US required 10 mph bumpers... uck.. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi dadz: I'm glad I qualified by earlier statement with "as I recall". I've been doing some farther research.. trying to pin down the various dates at which the Tire Safety Standards related to displaying the production dates changed.. and they seem to have changed quite often over the past 40 years. Sorry to say that the Federal Register is very hard to follow between "proposed changes" and "actual changes implemented". I know "think".. that the "K7" is the Plant Code that indicates what production plant the tires were produced at. I've written some contacts at Bridgestone to see if they can dig up some history for us. Does your tire say K7002 or K7000 or K7009? I can't quite be sure from the picture. There should be another set of characters molded into the sidewall - what do they say? I think we need to gather a few more samples... regards, Carl

Hi Chris: I'm not sure what "issue" you refer too. No guidelines are not benchmarks. The values given in the various publications are the Guidelines.... ie "Value Guide" The Kruse Set of Numbered Condition Categories are the benchmarks. Bench mark: 1) a mark on a permanent object indicating elevation and serving as a reference in topographical surveys and tidal observations. 2) benchmark a; a point of reference from which measurements may be made b; something that serves as a standard by which others may be measured. I'd say that that the Kruse condition categories are widely used as a common point of reference - within which most collector cars can be placed, and that most car collectors are aware of. As for them being subjective categories vaguely defined - they may be. However they are published for every one to read, have been for years and years - and one of the most broadly used. Nothing in this area is "absolute"... the categories are ordinal in nature within the collector car community.... not ratio. Just a standard set of definitions that everyone can use - without everyone making up their own or redefining terms. FWIW, Carl

Hi Ben (everyone) I think it's important to recognize the difference between "respect" and "desire". Most people that know much about Sports/GT's respect the early Z Cars. However most of the fanatic price escalation in both the value of the Datsun 240-Z and Muscle Cars is driven by "desire". If someone with the money to spend, want's a specific car of any kind - nothing else will satisfy that Desire for them, so if they have the money... they'll spend it. As fewer and fewer of the items of their desire come on the market, and more buyers decide it's time to fulfill their burning Desire.. prices start to climb into the level of the ridiculous. Just didn't want to confuse "R E S P E C T" with market value. In the Classic, Collector and Special Interest car markets - value is all about "the people that have the money" satisifing their.. "DESIRE". FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater,FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Chris: You may have your definitions, and everyone else may have theirs. That is why a very diverse set of Collectors around the country and around the world usually refer to a common set of categories with their definitions. The Value Guides are just that - a published and known set of benchmarks - against which any car can be held. No question that once both parties get together, they may draw the line at slightly different points.. but at least at that point in time they would both have had something that got them close to an understanding. I believe that the #1 cars - like Charlie's are indeed very very rare.. I'll be darned if I can find many. By the end of 1985 Nissan/Datsun had sold over a million cars in the US.. Wonder if we can find 50 of them in the same condition as Charlie's? Yes, he drove it a few hundred miles on a dry sunny summer day.. the exception that proves the rule perhaps. Nonetheless if you inspected a car with 900 or 1,200 miles that is 26 years old - and in the same condition - I think most people would describe it as "never driven". Most Collectors that would buy such a car would never drive it to a show.. Charlie isn't really a collector so much as an enthusiast of the marque. When the car reaches the $50K plus range I believe Charlie would either sell it or quite driving it. All things with a grain of salt. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

HI Chris: Sorry - I was on the thought process of "Collectors" again.. The Numbering System and its descriptions are those used in the Kruse, "Old Cars Price Guide"; and in Collector circles they are the most commonly used in the initial discussions between buyers and sellers. Of course sellers always rate their cars higher than buyers.. ;-) Nonetheless, they are at least a "common" definition that both can look too. The NADA Cars of Particular Interest (aka CPI) Value Guide breaks the market into "Low", "High" and "Average" value's. Their use is defined thus: "CPI does not assign condition categories to the column headings because values generally move in small increments and there are seldom well defined points which indicate condition. In a general sense the LOW value represents an average intact and functioning automobile which can be restored at a reasonable cost. The AVERAGE value is indicative of a clean, front-line ready automobile. The HIGH value is representive of a car which requires nothing. It may be a show car but it in NOT a 100 point car. There are some cars in CPI which are rarely if ever driven, but most cars are assumed to be driven." FWIW, Carl B. Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Dave: You have a valid point related to finding information in the future... but this is after all a forum for "discussion". Not simply a question and answer service - right? As long as the discussion threads it way through related information, it's usually considered "on topic". The original question was indeed about seeking and buying a Z or ZX, and the various issues associated with that decision or purchase are relevant. Dee-Dee did say ..."or any common problem the Zeds have"... If one is new to a subject area, holding a discussion with many others yields all manor of information that a person new to the subject would not otherwise know to ask or to search for in the first place. That is I believe why it is so important to discuss these topics with newbies, rather than pointing them to the archives for searches at too early a point. BTW - wouldn't you also find the L28's in wrecked/totaled 280ZX's imported into Australia? FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA

Hi ZRedline: I'm afraid that Mr. Sessons rendition of the Z story is a good example of how screwed up things get when people that know very little about a subject sit down to write.. Vapor Locking - effects the carb's because is starves them for gas, but that really isn't a "problem" with the carb.'s - they were no more prone to vapor lock than any other carb. - it is a problem with the fuel delivery system. One that is easily cured in most cases by the addition of an electric fuel pump at or near the gas tank. The "problem" with the Flat Tops was "Percolation" causing a richer than normal air-fuel mixture. It affects the carb. float bowl and the high pressure fuel line (the outlet side of the fuel pump) and cause hot start problems. The 280Z's 2.8L displacement was not achieved by stroking the 260's L26. The L28 was a new block casting, with larger diameter cylinder bores. The L26 was achieved by stroking the L24. At least as tested by most of the automotive magazines here in the States, the 260Z was never faster than the 240-Z. Everything with a grain of salt.... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA

Keep in mind that all the terms used - are in the sense of a "Collector"... they veiw things far more critically than most of us.. #1 EXCELLENT - Restored to current maximum professional standards of quality in every area, or perfect original with components operating and appearing as new. A 95+ point show car that is not driven. In national show judging a car in #1 condition is likely to win top honors in it's class. In a sense it has ceased to be an automobile and has become an object of art. It is transported to shows in an enclosed trailer, and, when not being shown it is stored in a climate controlled facility. It is not driven. There are very few #1 cars. #2 FINE: - Well-restored, or a combination of superior restoration and excellent original. Also an extremely well maintained original showing very minimal wear. Except for the very closest of inspection a #2 vehicle may appear as a #1. The #2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows, except when squared off against a #1 example in its own class. It may also be driven 800 - 1,000 miles each year to shows, on tours, and simply for pleasure. #3 - Very Good: Completely operable original or "older restoration" showing wear. Also, a good amateur restoration, all presentable and serviceable inside and out. Plus combinations of well-done restoration and good operable components; or a partially restored car with all parts necessary to complete it and/or valuable NOS parts. This is a 20 footer - that is, from 20 feet away it may look perfect. But as we approach it, we begin to notice that the paint may be getting a little thin in spots from frequent washing and polishing. Looking inside we might detect some wear on the drivers seat, foot pedals, and carpet. The chrome trim while still quite presentable, may have lost the sharp mirror like reflective quality it had when new. All systems and equipment on the car are in good operating order. In general, most of the vehicles seen at car shows are #3's..... #4 Good - A driveable vehicle needing no or only minor work to be functional. Also, a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur restoration. All components may need restoration to be excellent, the car is mostly usable "as is". This is a driver - It may be in the process of restoration or it owner may have big plans, but even from 20 feet away, there is no doubt that it needs a lot of help.. #5 Restorable - Needs complete restoration of body, chassis, and interior. May or may not be running, but isn't weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to the point of being useful only for parts. This car needs everything. It may not be operable, but it is essentially all there and has only minor surface rust, if any rust at all. While presenting a real challenge to the restorer, it won;t have him doing a lot of chasing for missing parts. #6 Parts Car - May or may not be running, but is weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to the point of being useful primarily for parts. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Mike: See: <a href=http://zhome.com/History/72AccBroch.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/History/72AccBroch.htm</a> They were part of the Factory Shade Kit - and at the time they could be ordered as a set. They are no longer available from Nissan. E-Bay is your best bet. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Sean: I believe it is. The previous owner (I believe he has sold it??) of HS30 00004 saw the car come into Australia , and went to look it over at the Dealership about mid year 1970, and he agrees that it was most likely produced in Jan or Feb of 1970. It is certainly possible that HS30 00003 was produced in 69 - but the point was that for several years in Autralia we'd see 240-Z's advertized for sale as being 1969 production year cars. That was based on the reports that the first 500 240-Z's were produced in 69. The fact turned out to be that the first 542 or 543 Left Hand Drive 240-Z's were produced in 69. So we'd see HS30 cars with VIN's of over 00400 being presented as 69 production cars. Yes, the HS and HLS series have different chassis serial number sequences. However Alan tells us that the Export and JDM 240-Z's share space along a common sequence (meaning they are intermixed at different intervals). Correct - Export figures. I have now added the Produced vs Exported chart. Yes the "Other" column is made up of export cars sent to Other places not specified FWIW, Carl B.

Good feedback Alan - try it now. thanks, Carl B.

Hi Sean: If you are looking for numbers that will cross-foot and balance, I seriously doubt you'll find them from Nissan or any other company for that matter. Most numbers reported were more for informational purposes, than those we would expect for corporate accounting for funds. However if your interested, in trying to reconcile various reported numbers and look for clues as to what may account for some differences - well then it can be fun and informative. See my earlier Post re Numbers.. but I doubt that we will ever get them all add up perfectly.. One thing that might help us look at Exports to Europe and or France would be a list of Authorized Datsun Dealers in the various Countries in 1970. Maybe we can fill in a few blanks if we knew which Countries had any Datsun Dealers by 1970. Because most Countries in Europe didn't drop the import tariffs established after WW-II until just a few years ago, it was very difficult for the Japanese Automobile Manufacturers to establish much of a market share there. One of Mr. Goshn's goals for Nissan's recovery and growth was to greatly expand sales in Europe. I believe that Australia was a bit more open to imports, but I don't believe that they had very many Datsun Dealers by 1970. Nissan seems to have sent a few cars to Central and South America as well, but we can't find much information about them either. Some time ago, I was trying to help a person at a Dealership in France that was attempting to restore a 240-Z. I don't know if I can find him again but will try. He may have done some research on the subject via Nissan. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Caution - long Post related to published numbers follows.. if your not at all interested.stop here. Hello Zedrally: Sorry to see that your original Post was deleted... I thought it presented an opportunity to discuss the numbers.. not just on Z Home but everywhere. I would have to respectfully disagree with your characterization of the figures presented on the Z Car Home Page as "known to be totally wrong". The information as published on the Z Car Home Page is presented with it's source clearly defined, the caution to the readers that reported sales figures should not be confused with production figures reported elsewhere etc. Nissan in other places gives us annual production and annual export numbers.. here's a scan of a page out of the book "Fairlady Z Story, Datsun SP/SR & Z written by Mr. K and Mr. Matsuo for example. (see attached). Kats tells me that these numbers are commonly used in Japan. The first column on the Left is units produced, the second column is cumulative totals. The third column (third with numbers) is units exported and the fourth column is cumulative totals of exports. When we compare these to the figures in the 280Z Book - we have to keep in mind several things, and take them into account - in order to attempt to reconcile the various reports. 1. Units Exported are most likely counted as they leave the factory intended to be exported - but if you compare that to US reports of units imported... you have to keep in mind that on any given month.. there are units in transport (on the 6 of 7 ships coming to North America with 1200 to 1900 units each). So month for month the number may or may not match perfectly between Japan and North America. But over a period of time... the cumulative totals start to line up pretty well, if your interested in Macro data and not too worried about Micro data. 2. We sometimes have to figure out just what is being reported - Sales or Production? By Sales by Calendar Year or Sales by Fiscal Year?... shift reported Sales or Production a few months.. to account for the difference between Fiscal to Calendar year .. and the picture sometimes starts to look a little more clear. 3. Yes, given certain Corporate Goals for production or sales.. a few units might be held from one month to the next, if the quota was meet for the month.. People in corporations do fudge the figures a bit month to month... and sometime they shift numbers pushing things into the next year from Dec. to Jan. Then when we look at VIN's and Production Dates on the cars themselves they too line up in a reasonable fashion. I don't believe anything is perfect, even the reports done to meet specific legal requirements of the various Countries are complied by humans. All that said - lets look at the numbers: The 280ZX Book shows a total exports in 1970 as 17, 740 The Fairlady Z book shows total exports in 1970 as 17, 008 (minus 732) The 280ZX Book shows a total exports in 71 as 38, 371 The Fairlady Z book shows total exports in 1970 as 40,210 (plus 1839) The 280ZX Book shows a total export in 72 as 58, 053 The Fairlady Z book shows total exports in 72 as 60, 025 (plus 1972) The 280ZX Book shows a total export in 73 as 50,452 The Fairlady Z book shows total exports in 73 51,332 (plus 880) 280ZX Book shows cumulative total exported 70-73 164,616 So Japan reported cumulative total exported 70-73 168,584 (plus 3,968) Is it possible that the 3968 units were on some of Nissan's Car Carriers, exported from Japan but not yet received and counted as imports.. 7 ships that carried between 1200 and 1900 units each... Recognizing that some 1974 Model Year 260-Z are counted in the 73 Calendar Year production.. we'd have to back them out if we wanted to see only 240-Z production. Then the highest VIN we have found so far for a Left Hand Drive Datsun 240-Z is HLS30 172767 originally sold in Switzerland. First we subtract about 20K units because Nissan skipped about 20K numbers when they restarted the chassis serial number for the HLS30 -1973 Model Year cars at HLS30 120xxx. That gives us about 152,767 units... Then we add the 260Z's produced between 07/73 and 12/73. Based on the VIN's found... RLS30 00001 to RLS30 08944.. So that's 161, 711. Add the HS30's 5203.. and your at 166,914... Is it possible we still have a few thousand in-transit? The person that started this thread was looking for general information, I seriously doubt that he nor most people expect such broad based information, gathered from 30+ years ago - to be proven in a court of law to be 100% accurate. For that was never the intention of Nissan Motors Ltd. nor Nissan Motors USA in publishing these numbers in first place. Nor is are the numbers on the Z Car Home Page presented as absolute FACT 100% Proven. But I would suggest that to most reasonable people, slight differences in reported numbers does not render them ... totally wrong. As far as I can find - the book published by Nissan Motors in 1978 contains the best available answer to Sean Dezert's original request, because it is the only source of that information we've been able to find to date and it seems to be fairly accurate. Everyone can mix/match the numbers and think about ways to account for missing units etc. in order the reconcile them all... Nonetheless, the numbers and points of export should give a least a feel for the overall picture of what went where. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hello Alan: I don't believe I disputed that the old L20 may have been an "ancestor", just that it wasn't the parent. You and I, as usual, simply have a different perspective on this. In this case, I believe you are saying / insisting that the Nissan L20, as pictured by you circa 65/66, simply evolved into the L20A, you feel that they are one and the same and purely a Nissan design. You also seem to believe that the more modern L16, did not precede the more modern and differently named L20A in both development and production, or rather that since you believe that the L20/L20A are one and the same, then the L16 and L24 are simply detail changes to the 63/68 L20. I on the other hand see evolution as a distinct series of small incremental changes, leading from the origin to the current example. I see no such incremental progression between the L20 and L20A. Rather I see a completely different engine, unlike any that Nissan had ever produced before - pop up out of nowhere - with the appearance of the L16 in late 67 as specified for the PL510 in 1966. I do see clear incremental evolution from the L16 to the L13 (same block de-stroked & head) and then to the L24 (same block/head with two additional cylinders) and L20A (same block design / head design cast in a smaller bore, and in some cases with small main bearing supports) all sharing a visibly common design, quite different from the Mercedes looking L20 of 65. If your perspective is that the old Nissan L20 is the new L20A, with "minor detail" changes... then your time frames must be correct, and the new L20A engine was around for five or six years before the Z. If my perspective that the L16 was a clean slate design, with collaboration between Nissan and former Prince engineers is correct.. Then a completely new block was designed and cast, a completely new cylinder head with associated combustion chambers were designed and cast, a completely new valve train was designed etc etc - then the L24 was indeed evolved from the L16. In this case I do clearly see the small incremental changes that represent the evolution of a design. That new design however starts with the L16. How much change has to take place in one step - before the evolution of an old design is completely replaced with a new stating point? We simply differ on the answer to that question. Just as many view the evolutionary path from the Fairlady roadsters, to the Silvia, then to the Goertz Nissan 2000/Yamaha A550X and ending at the Z Car; I suppose they would view your perspective as correct. I however belive that the L16 was as completely revolutionary within Nissan Motors, as the Z Car was itself. About the only thing the Z and the L16 have in common with the Fairlady Roadsters and the old M/B style L20 - is the name of the company that produced them all. If you tell me that the engineer that designed Nissan's original L20 circa 63 (did you say), is the same person that designed L20A... then I would tell you that the metamorphosis (caterpillar to butterfly) in the design took place in his mind, but not in the physical world. I would hold that it was indeed a second clean slate design, not a further evolution of the first and that the L16 preceded the L24/L20A. The L13/16 and/or the L20A/24 could very well represent the evolution of the knowledge and experience the Design Engineer possessed. It may be all perspective and perception, but I believe that to understand where the Datsun 240-Z came from, and why it became so hugely successful - one has to look at the difference between evolution and revolution. I believe that it was revolution, and that was driven by Mr. K in America, Nissan Motors need to increase production by increasing Export Sales, the merger with Prince Motors and the restructuring of the in-house design department - all of which converged at Nissan in the 65/66 time frame and resulted in the creation of something totally new for Nissan. The first outcome of that revolution in Design and Engineering related to new engines was the U20, followed by the L16 in the PL510, and then the L24/L20A. As I said, I know we see things quite differently - I would sincerely encourage you to simply tell the story from your perspective of the subject, and I'll hope we can conduct a reasonable discussion. regards, Carl B. BTW - If anyone following this thread doesn't already have a copy of Brian Longs translation from the original Japanese, of "HOW I DEVELOPED DATSUN 240-Z STYLING", written by Mr. Matsuo... just send me an e-mail at beck@becksystems.com and I'll loan you my copy. (in MS-Word format).

Hello Alan: Actually I have now written about five answers...just haven't posted them. A couple of them just made me feel better after writing them, but they were ah... too... bluntly honest .. to send. Most would have seen them as "mean";-) A couple of them were as honest, as I could be and still not be outright flames... but then I thought the chances of getting you to settle down and hold an actual "discussion" were pretty low, you seem to so enjoy provocative debate and wining the debate becomes way to important to you. Then that turns into Posts and Replies that get way to complex and way to long.. and our fellow forum members grown in pain.. The truth is Alan, there are many subject area's I'd love to "discuss" with you. But you simply must quit assigning evil intent to my statements, quite calling me a lair and understand that I really attempt to mislead no one. The ZCCA Historian, Dan Banks and I have spent hundreds of hours collecting source materials and doing extensive research on most subjects we write on. Where necessary or appropriate we reference them so others can read them for themselves. (I mention Dan because he has been a huge source of information related to the history of Nissan Motors as well as the Z Car). I will say up front that I do not believe that just because a magazine article or book is written in Japanese, or written by a Japanese writer - it somehow is to be given more credence than anything written English. I think we both have enough experience in that regard to know how badly mangled an interview or writing can get before it gets to print. I know that you and I can read the same article and come away with completely different perspectives of what was written. Secondly, since neither I not the vast majority of our fellow forum members can read the Japanese sources you site as references - to decide for themselves the true quality, content and meaning of the wittings in total.. I can't really respond to your interpretation or possible misinterpretation of them. if you read your source materials like you read my Posts... well.... All that said - I'll try one more time... next Post.... kind regards, Carl B.

Hi Chris: No, he isn't an anomaly, from the perspective that he's willing to pay for a #1 car. He in turn has a couple of friends, that seeing his Z, decided they wanted one of their own.. and so it goes. As Collectors with serious money enter the market, they bring others with them. Doesn't take long once that starts to spread out to larger numbers of them.. Of course the supply of true #1 cars is VERY limited indeed. Of course once that starts.. the #2 cars follow the value curve at a lower level ($20K-$28K)... and the #3 cars follow more closely along. ($18K to $20K). Of course very few of us have a true #1, #2 or even #3 car judged with a critical eye. But the #4 cars are now in the $10K to $12K range for the right buyers, and many are still sold for half that amount. Supply, Demand and Timing.... Putting your car up for sale when there is a serious buyer looking.. then reaching him with your ad - it's a roll of the dice... One problem in the #4 category is that the buyers there, are still thinking they can find a #4 car for $5K. After they look for a year, show up to inspect the "perfect" car.. only to find junk, time after time... they figure out that it takes $10K now to buy the car they want. Or they buy the $5K car and wind up putting $10K into it... FWIW, Carl B.

Well that too is a two edged sword. Even if your a buyer, you'd rather see prices going up at a steady rate, rather than dropping like most used cars. If your a smart/wise buyer you can still find relative bargains NOW.. and if you do you can enjoy the car for years and not lose too much money when you sell. I'd agree we would mostly not want to see the price of good 240-Z skyrocket out of sight.. but I believe the days of having a cheap 240-Z that's in great shape - are all but over and many people will be priced out of the market pretty soon. When I was a kid, a good used car was at least $500.00 to $1000.00, and a great used car was $1,500.00 to $2,500. It's the same today, just add a couple of zero's.. When I was a kid a E-Type was about $6,500.00 new in 62... by 75 you could find them for $1,500.00, by 85 they were $15,000.00 by 95 they were $25,000.00... by 2005 they are what now??..... $50,000.00 to $65,000.00. It's all about supply and demand... the Demand for 240-Z's at least is far larger than the supply. FWIW, Carl B.

Make sure you change the coil - to the 280Z/ZX type. Carl B.

Chris... I know. you know that pristine originals are now going for $40K... One buyer that I know, offered one owner that I know.. $40K for a certain white 72 that we both know ... the offer was refused... Heck - that Orange 72 on ebay with 80K miles went for $20K.. if the economy stays good and interest rates stay low.. pristine 240-Z's will be $50K+ in four years. FWIW, Carl B.

It's not a Vintage Z Program Car - just spare parts left over when the program ended. $18K isn't too bad if you liked the color and wanted a project to finish.. the fun part of the refresh is still ahead and there are lots of parts with the car... for the right buyer $18 is an OK price. Carl B.