Carl Beck

Interesting to have the recreated Shelby Daytona Cobra Coupe, a Z Car and a mid-year Corvette at the show. Peter Brock worked at GM on the design of the 1963 Sting Ray, then went to Shelby America and pinned the Daytona Coupe, then opened BRE Racing... with several other designs between. The original design by Peter Brock: <a href=http://www.secondstrike.com/Coupe/Brock.htm>Peter Brock and the Shelby Daytona Cobra Coupe</a> The way the re-creation happened <a href=http://www.secondstrike.com/Coupe/Price.htm> The Coupe Design </a> Peter Brock's personal car at Sebring... pictured below. Peter and his wife drove this coupe back out to California after the race at Sebring... FWIW, Carl B.

If unlike 26th Z, you were not lucky enough to have meet Mr. Matso in person so as to have him relate the story to you personally ... Then the story of how the problem of producing the headlight buckets was overcome - is outlined nicely in the book "Project X Challengers - 240-Z" by Akira Yokoyama and available from Amazon.com for around $11.00. See cover and pages below.. Chris - don't you have a drawing from your meeting with Matsuo? For general discussion - yes. If the discussion turns more to the technical side - then it would be better to use more specific terms. FRP - Fiber Reinforced Plastic - - - but the fiber could be stranded or chopped glass fibers, carbon fibers, woven fiberglass mats or woven carbon fiber etc etc I believe the steering wheels used actual wood fibers in the FRP... Fiberglass - a little more limited term - in that it specifies glass fiber. The headlight buckets were most likely chopped fiber glass in an epoxy base. Blow Molded and vacuum bagged. Once the molds are produced, it is a pretty inexpensive way to mass produce complex shapes. The problem passing the MVSS 215 Bumper Standard tests wasn't with the "fiberglass" itself. Fiberglass, pound for pound absorbs and dissipates impact energy better than steel. The Z had a steel front bumper directly in front of the fiberglass headlight bucket - the headlight bucket was supported only by the thin sheet metal of the front fender horn. When that metal fender horn was bent on impact, it took out the headlight. Bolting the steel "U" channel at the top of the steel headlight bucket, to the fender horns - strengthened them and prevented them from bending toward the headlight. For 1973 the Corvette's steel front bumper was eliminated altogether so it could not be pushed back into the headlights. For 1973 being all plastic with reinforcing behind it - it absorbed more of the impact energy, without transferring that energy to the headlight. FWIW, Carl B.

Everything is a trade-off isn't it. If you shoot 35mm film with a good camera, you have the original negative to store. That negative will have a resolution of about 20 million pixels, at 36 to 42 bit depth. 20 years from now, you will still be able to pull the negative out of storage and have super high resolution prints made, or you will be able to scan the negative to recreate a super high resolution digital copy. On the other hand, if you shoot the picture with todays digital camera's - even the medium priced ones in the $5K to $10K range - you will have an image with 10 to 12 million pixels at 14 bit depth. Once you have that lower resolution digital image - you will have to always bring it along, constantly re-saving it in the newer formats and on the newer hardware. In 20 years, you won't have a CD drive, nor a DVD drive...anyone have an 8" floppy drive at this point? - how about 4" floppy drive? Wish I could get my Jaz Drive hooked up, and then get the software drivers updated to run on todays PC's... I had some really neat digital images from 1996.... just neglected to constantly read them into and then re-save them in the current formats, on the current hardware using the new software... If you want or require a long term archive - better stick with film. If you have digital images, don't leave them on older storage technology... Drum Memory Anyone? FWIW, Carl B.

What was "wrong" with the fiberglass headlight buckets, was that they would not meet the US Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (MVSS) related to frontal impact at 10 mph for the 1973 Model Year here in the US. While the MVSS required that the front bumper had to remain in serviceable condition after a 5mph frontal impact, the headlights had to remain in working order after a 10mph impact. So to add impact strength to the front fender horns, the headlight buckets were produced in steel. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Alan: You must have some specific cars and sales figures in mind. Could you report some actual sales figures (gross range will fine) - for the cars your talking about. It would be interesting know what a 69 production year S30 would sell for in Japan. Also, among the car produced later in 1970 what is the top dollar paid for a Z - what Z was it? I'll be back Thursday... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Wayne: If you haven't already done so - I would highly recommend that you bolt a good drivers seat in the old 240-Z before that trip. Ship the stock seat back to Tenn. With a good seat providing the needed support 12 hours behind the wheel at a time becomes a pleasure again. Oh and take your iPod with both talking books and music... Above all stay alert! FWIW, Carl B.

Oh yea gad... it never ends. This entire thread has been about the 240-Z's offered for sale here in North America.... I see no reason for you to attempt to hijack the thread - yet again - to turn the subject of discussion to the few Z's sold in Japan. Nor do I see any reason that within the context nor subject of this discussion thread - I should have to make all manor of disclaimers, exceptions, nor references to, any other vehicles outside the context of the current discussion. If you would like to discuss the resale market and cars in Japan - please start another thread related to that subject. FWIW, Carl B.

Spokane Washington across the top of the US... to the Chicago, then down around the great lakes to Columbus, Ohio. Five days in Columbus, then off to Daytona Beach for a couple days. Daytona Beach to Denver for a couple days, then back to Spokane from Denver. Make that loop in 1970 and again in 71 and 72. Spokane to Columbus in 36 hours. Columbus to Daytona in 14 hours. Did the loop in my 70 240-Z for 1970 and 1971 - then in my 72 240-Z for 1972. Didn't record the exact mileage... but I did put 69K miles on my 70 Z in 18 months. Got married in 72 - We drove from Spokane to Portland, then down the West Cost to L.A. Stayed there a couple days, then went to - the Grand Cannon, Vegas, Bryce Canyon National Park, Salt Lake, and Zion National Parks as well as Yellowstone - then back to Spokane.. Ah.. to be in my 20's again - - Carl B.

Speaking of which - I'll be gone this Monday through Wednesday...headed up North to accompany #17 back to the body shop here in Florida. ;-) You going to meet us at ZRush's again? later, Carl

The Subject of this thread started with #305. I said #305 would not get a bid starting at $10K. I also said it's market value in California, in the condition it is show in would be $2,500.00 to $3,500.00. So I am not sure that you are disagreeing with me, or changing the subject to a second car...?? There is a significant difference between VIN 51 and VIN 305 in terms of how many other people will own lower VIN's, in the Low VIN Club. Excluding for now #6, 7 and 8.... the competition cars not sold to the public. If you own #305 there are at least 80 other people with lower VIN's. If you own #51 there are only 17 other people with lower VIN's that have been located so far. If you want to be in the second most exclusive group of 69 Z owners, you have to be in the "Teen Z Club" - find #00018 and you will be one of four in that group. Of course if you want to be in the most exclusive group of 69 Z owners you have to own #6, #7 or #8..... and you will be one of the three "Single Digit Z" owners - in which case you have the right to hold a single digit to everyone else in the club... The single digit held up denotes both the fact that you have a VIN with a single significant digit - or "1" denoting the $100,000.00+ you have to pay to get it. There are really two components related to value in your question or statement. The first component is the value of a completely restored Series I 240-Z. The second is the additional value of the VIN itself. In the past twelve months, I have arranged the sale of six or seven Concours Quality Restorations done on Series I 240-Z's. They all sold for between $25K and $35K. Two of them were 1969 Production Year cars with VIN's between 100 and 200. With these cars, buyers and sellers... I'm not sure it's possible to break out the value of the VIN - but I am sure it was far easier to find buyers quickly for the 69 production cars. I'm also sure that over time, the few 69 production cars that have been restored will command on average higher prices than the rest of the Series I cars. Given the fact that only 38 Vintage Z's were completed; and the Vintage Z's additional significant place in the History of the Z Car, I believe that they will be the real price leaders in the Collector Z Car Community. At present 143 1969 production year 240-Z's have been found.... and there is no way of telling how many of them have been or will be fully restored, but chances are good that it will be far more than 38 over time. If the Collector Car market stays as strong as it is now - I believe we could see the Vintage Z's or perhaps some Concours Quality Series I Z's selling for $50K within the next five to seven years. just my take on the market.. Carl B.

One Vote for the "Greatest Understatement" so far in this thread. America no longer has Journalists reporting the news, nor Editors demanding factual and complete accounts be presented to the public. We have Entertainers creating stories taken from daily life, for multiple channels of cable Info-tain-ment. Now more and more delivered by Movie Star Quality Female anchors. You never get the whole story - and what you do get is mostly misleading or simply wrong. FWIW, Carl B.

"Much better looking"!!... now wait a minute, lets not get carried away... vbg - Just too funny, Carl B.

Try driving it with less than a full tank - and leave the gas cap off. See what happens - Carl B.

And the by translation by Altavista is: "Hello Tilman, 240er are RSR in D, 260er can you already rather get. Actually Z's are offered quite rarely and are expensive in good condition, also because there are hardly parts here. The partial import from the USA is not the cheapest! The hardest hammer the "Rallyeamateur" drives here to Klaus Fritzinger (see under Google after), is beautiful also in Holland of the Rallyenachbau of z-POINT and also the cars of Germanz and germanzfan is super. If Du's means serious, then schau you for a good basis in the USA over, possibly here still in Switzerland. Much fun and success with the search"

Call John Williams in Atlanta (I think it's actually Duluth - up near the track) 1-770-806-2926 John has been working on 240-Z's for longer than I can remember - and he races them as well. Super driver by the way.. Tell him I said to say hello... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

In terms of Clock Position - where do you think the #1 Spark Plug should be? I'm not sure I understand what the "fat side pointing to the right" means. Looking down the hole the distributor goes into - there is an offset with one side lower than the other. Which side is your "low side" on? (right is toward the firewall and Left is toward the radiator). Is the line through the off-set, that divides the high side from the low side - running from 1 O'clock to 7 O'clock - for example - or 11 O'clock to 5 O'clock for example or what? Carl B.

I think everyone else will too! Nonetheless it is a great place for Free Advertising - especially if one is smart enough to include a phone number to call. The overall condition of that car with that VIN in California.... $2,500.00 to $3,500.00 at the outside. FWIW, Carl B.

That is correct - there was a 1 HP difference in the ratings. If by "smog pump" you mean the Air Pump for the fresh air injection system - that was standard equipment on all US Spec. 240Z's right from the begining. While the E31 had a slightly higher compression ratio - the E88 had improved breathing due to redesigned intake and exhaust runners. So the net effect was an all but equal offset in stock configurations. If there were any power robbing additions - it would have been the increased curb weight for 72 and again for 73. As both engines were still rated at 150HP. The flat tops only robbed power when the fuel system vapor locked, or the heat sink caused the float bowls to boil. In effect the flat tops had a bad effect on over-all drive-ability, but no effect on the rated HP. Saying that all 240-Z's in the U.S have 151 or 150 is accurate to within six tenths of one percent - I don't thing anyone worries too much about 1 HP out of 150... By the way - the Bob Sharp and BRE teams switched to the E88 when it came out - because it had better flow (at least that is what they told me at the time). It's easy to adjust the compression by milling the head, or decking the block. It's much harder to improve the flow of a head once it's cast with its intake and exhaust runners defined. The E88's also corrected the tendency of the E31's to crack aound the exhaust valves. FWIW, Carl B.

In a few years that seller will be so unhappy that he sold his Z.... if it sells at his reserve...

Hi Stephen: Thanks - now we need someone to check a 76 and 77... see if there is any difference there. Does your data tag list the original engine serial number or just say L28? FWIW, Carl B.

What's wrong with the 280Z? If you use the baseline of the 240-Z as your personal benchmark of how to get things RIGHT.. then want is WRONG with the 280Z would be: 1. design & styling changes, not to refine or improve the base car - but design changes mandated by government bureaucrats, to pacify tree huggers and safety nuts, neither of which had a clue as to what they were talking about when making their demands for change. a) over size and worthless bumpers a heavier subframe to carry "a)" which added more weight c) stop gap emission control solutions - forced on the manufacturers before quality R & D could be done, and good engineering implemented. This was simply a mess for the consumer. 2. design changes, not to refine or improve the base car - but design changes sought by the customers, that wanted more luxury, a quite car with better heat and sound insulation for better A/C. All of which took some of the original "light" personality away... If you happen to be one of the customers mentioned in #2 above - then NOTHING is wrong other than the junk the Government mandated. 3. future resale value, the 280-Z's will always be considered second choice by the collectors and will not hold the higher values of the 240-Z's over time. 4. Complexity of repair and maintenance over the long haul. As time passes it will be ever more difficult to deal with the computer and sensor problems, the corrosion on critical electrical connections, and find new Fuel Injectors... I'm sure there are others I've overlooked. As everyone has said, there is really nothing wrong with the 280Z's... really, as long as you don't hold them up against a like condition 240-Z. The 280Z is really a very nice car... But it's kind of like being Nicole Kidman's sister....and never quite being Nicole .. but there really isn't anything wrong with Nicole's sister.... FWIW, Carl B.

Taking a quick look though an extensive collection of Engine Data Tags (hundreds of them in the collection from Mr. Lowell Wade) The L24 was rated at 151/150 The L26 was rated at 162 HP The L28E in the 280Z Federal Models was rated at 170HP The L28E in the 280ZX was rated at 132HP The L28ET in the 280ZX Turbo was rated at 180HP (as I recall - I don't have an engine data plate for the 280ZX Turbo's that shows the factory rated HP) If you have an engine data plate for an L28 in a 280Z - that shows something other than 170HP, it most likely is from the "California" model. In which case you should have a "CAT HOT" warning light in the center console. If you have a picture of that data plate, I'd like to see it. The bottom line is - that until the 82 280ZX Turbo with the 5spd. came out - none of the North American 260Z's, 280Z's nor 280ZX's were as fast in the 1/4 mile, nor would any of them beat the 240-Z on a road course. FWIW, Carl B.

Hello Tilman: Welcome to the forum... If you are used to Fuel Injection and Turbo's - then just get an L28ET from the 280ZX Turbo - and drop it in your 240-Z. Then you'd have that kick in the back, along with the Classic lines. FWIW, Carl B.

Oh good.. I was a bit worried that you would not have enough space between the axle and the backing plate - to get the studs out/in - without having to remove the axle. (been a long time since I had to do that job). I guess I was thinking of the longer racing studs.. Carl B.

All of the above - Kroil is the way to go. If you do any work at all on these old Z's a couple of can's of Aero-Kroil are simply indispensable. I've been working on cars for 50 years now, and I've never found anything that comes close to being as effective as Kroil. It's a pain in the neck to have to order it on-line, wait for it to be delivered - and it is not cheap; but well worth the time and effort. Put Kano Labs in google... If you can't get an air or electric impact wrench on it - then resort to the original impact source. Everyone should have a medium size brass hammer in their tool box. So - Kroil and let it soak, then box end wrench on the nuts, then a swift solid blow to the other end of the wrench with the brass hammer... They break right loose. Dynamic torque is soooo much more effective and far easier on your hands.... FWIW, Carl B.