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HELP: Rear red lights ON and no power to starter


MH77280Z

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Hi Guys, i parked the car last night and all seemed to be fine. Today when i tried starting the car the starter did not engage.

Mine is 77 Auto and seat belt is engaged and i also have a new ignition mod and like i said it worked last night no issues. I noticed when i took the key out, the rear red lights kept ON. Played with the brake pedal a bit but no effect. I had to disconnect the battery for now.

Where should i start? somebody seen this before?

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Upon manually pressing the brake light switch the lights does go off. I do see some plastic on the floor and a hole in the brake padel lever where the switch pressing when u release the pedal - is there a replacement part to fill that hole gap?

Also, i did check the battery and it is fully charged and it does not what so ever crank the engine. Like I said i parked the car overnight and it was cranking up fine. Cannot thing of thing that can go wrong overnight.

While ignition at start i should see 12v at the solenoid wire signal terminal correct? I can probably start from there.

Any other advice?

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Guys, tested the voltage from pin connector on solenoid to battery ground while i tried cranking through ignition and there is no voltage getting there.

I unhooked the seat belt and when i move the key to ON i do hear a buzzer and after putting the seat buckle back in the buzzer goes away, so i assume the electrical connector at the seat belt is not a problem.

Do u think it is the seat belt relay in the engine compartment? I have also tried tapping the solenoid.

TOTALLY LOST GUYS>>>

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Might be the ignition switch.  Fairly common for the pins in the switch to get loose and lose connection.  Or for the mechanicals to wear and the key does not turn the electrical portion of the switch far enough.

If you can get to the switch and take it apart you can get the definitive answer.  Turn the electrical portion with a screwdriver and see if you get power then.

 

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Did you mean switch, not module?  

Can't remember the details of the first problem that caused you to replace the part, whatever it is.  Maybe write a short history of problems up to now.  There's not much to the system that sends power to the starter solenoid.  

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I had issues with slow cranking so I changed the Ignition switch and with a new battery things were normal. This was 1 month ago.

Couple of days ago when i parked the car next day this started to happen. No power getting to the solenoid at all at this time. I have double checked the battery and it is fine. This happened overnight only.

I have ordered a new ignition switch again and it will be here by Fri.

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1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

You should check for power at the switch first.  The odds of a new switch failing are slim.

When i turn the key the ignition relay does click, so i am assuming the power is getting from ignition to the relay. How much I dont know. Last time it came out to be the fault original ignition module not sending enough power. Let me try putting a new one and see if it behaves any different.

I did check my fuse block too and all fuses seems ok to me.

 

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Tried a new ignition module today and exactly same condition. Nothing.

Is there a way to test the ignition relay near the passenger kick side panel? I do hear sound of clicking there. But not sure if it is ignition relay.

where to check the voltage behind the solenoid terminal?

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OK that means both nothing to do with the start up issue i am having.

I am planning to take the starter out and bench test it. Before I use a different ignition relay. I just bought one used hopefully working ignition module from ebay.

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On 5/18/2022 at 11:31 AM, MH77280Z said:

No power getting to the solenoid at all at this time.

 

2 minutes ago, MH77280Z said:

I am planning to take the starter out and bench test it.

No point in working on the starter if it's not getting power from the wire.

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I posted this for a minute then deleted it because it's a work around fix that won't give you answer but will get you home so take it as an emergency fix. It scare the crap out of me when I do it but I have a long screwdriver that has so many arch burns on it I could use it to sharpen a chainsaw. 😁

You can turn the key to ON and jump the solenoid by making contact with the 2 threaded bolts with a screwdriver. It'll spark and scare the hell out of you but I've done it many times. Kind of of an emergency fix but it eliminates bad starters/ solenoids too. Leave the small wire on, thats the ignition switch wire.

Like I said it's gonna arch but it bypasses the solenoid and if it cranks you have a bad starter. Please be careful with the 12V. Don't hit anything else and make sure it's in PARK.

20220521_155559.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

I posted this for a minute then deleted it because it's a work around fix that won't give you answer but will get you home so take it as an emergency fix. It scare the crap out of me when I do it but I have a long screwdriver that has so many arch burns on it I could use it to sharpen a chainsaw. 😁

You can turn the key to ON and jump the solenoid by making contact with the 2 threaded bolts with a screwdriver. It'll spark and scare the hell out of you but I've done it many times. Kind of of an emergency fix but it eliminates bad starters/ solenoids too. Leave the small wire on, thats the ignition switch wire.

Like I said it's gonna arch but it bypasses the solenoid and if it cranks you have a bad starter. Please be careful with the 12V. Don't hit anything else and make sure it's in PARK.

20220521_155559.jpg

 

 

 

 

Dumb Q: if u jump these two terminals will it actually activate the plunger in the solenoid?

I mean if it bypasses the solenoid the plunger will not activate and will not let the starter make contact with the flywheel etc.?

 

Edited by MH77280Z
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You can also take a piece of wire and connect it to the solenoid small terminal then touch the other end to the battery positive post.  A poor man's remote starter switch.  Cliff/site's suggestion is the quick and easy way, but using a piece of wire adds some convenience. 

Supplying battery power to the small solenoid terminal is exactly what the ignition wire does.  It will actuate the solenoid which will move the plunger and cause the starter to turn and the gear to engage the flywheel or flex plate.

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I lnow nothing about plungers but you can jump those two post and it'll arch and scare you but it should crank. If it fires up you should take the stater to a local chain and have it tested. Once again PLEASE be careful! That's some major shade tree I watched my Dad do since I was a kid.

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Posted (edited)

I had to edit the post.

I connected the remote started between two big solenoid posts.

And while ignition ON, I pressed the remote starter and also touched 12v to the solenoid pin and the engine cranked perfectly like it was before. Removed everything and the car is idling.

I think the issue is down in the ignition relay i think.

 

Edited by MH77280Z
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I'm curious. Have you tried to start the car with it in neutral?

Recently a friend with a black/gold 10AE said his starter gave out. I told him that before he orders a starter, he should verify he had voltage at the solenoid. He measured and said he had no voltage there. I went to his house with a remote starter. I verified his reading and used the remote starter to start his car.

After consulting the wiring diagram, I traced it back to an ignition relay and verified the coil was not getting power. That led me to suspect the inhibit switch on the transmission. I told him to put the car in neutral and try starting. It started right up. I don't recall seeing anything in this thread about trying to start in neutral. Try it and report back.

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