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starter issue, wiring?


Wally

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Hi all

sorry for being quiet so long. i had some work and family issues. I was able to get the car started. I still have some issues though.

1. it is idled WAY too high. Need some advice on that. have a short video so you can hear it. not sure if its still a timing issue, carb issue or what. 

i cant tell you the RPM bc the gauge isnt working. After a LOT of research i found that the ballast resistor is the likely culprit. i left it attached even 

after i put in the protonix ignition. Still not sure exactly how to correct it but i think this may be issue. 

2. the fusible link on starter. Something is wrong. I keep burning through these. After the video i made starting it the wire burned up again. i took a short 

video showing it and how i have it connected.

3. i also took a short video of the alternator's connection. 

I am really concerned about why the fusible links keep burning up. Not sure where to start to fix issue. Not sure if it matters but i was having a dickens of a time with the timing, distributor, protonoix ignition etc. i finally think i got it all. However, i am not sure if something wrong there could be causing this fuse to burn.

I had someone look at car when i wasnt around. They told me the alternator was pulling 18volts....not sure what that means. Also, i havent checked it out to verify. I upgrade alternator to

https://zcardepot.com/products/alternator-high-amp-80-240z-260z-280z?variant=19280584015985

 

thanks for any help

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I bought a new alternator and didn't have it checked before installing. Found out after many problems it was back charging and popping my fuses. Went back to Advance and it tested bad. Got another one and tested it before leaving the store. All good since then.

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Seems like your carbs need adjusting. It looks like the "fast idle screw" has some play (meaning, it's not the forcing the throttle mechanism open), which is good. Maybe just back the throttle adjustment screws on each carb off 1/4 turn at a time until the idle sounds right.

I'm not sure how the ballast resistor could cause a high idle - I think it functioned to allow a hotter spark during start, followed by a somewhat tamer spark for normal running. 

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41 minutes ago, pogden said:

Seems like your carbs need adjusting. It looks like the "fast idle screw" has some play (meaning, it's not the forcing the throttle mechanism open), which is good. Maybe just back the throttle adjustment screws on each carb off 1/4 turn at a time until the idle sounds right.

I'm not sure how the ballast resistor could cause a high idle - I think it functioned to allow a hotter spark during start, followed by a somewhat tamer spark for normal running. 

Close, it was to keep the points from burning up.

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Fusible link diagnostics:

It helps to have a DC clamp ammeter like this: https://www.amazon.com/KAIWEETS-Multimeter-Auto-ranging-Temperature-Capacitance/dp/B07Z398YWF

  1. Test the voltage at the battery with the car off. Record the result.
  2. Test the voltage at the battery with the car running. Record the result. Note: If it is above 15V at idle - there is your problem.
  3. Test the current through the fusible link with the key in ON but car not running. Record the result. Note: If the meter shows a negative value, remove the clamp, face the meter in the opposite direction, and put it back over the fusible link.
  4. Leaving the ammeter around the fusible link, test the current through the fusible link with the car running. Record the result. Note: The polarity of the current should change.

From this we should get a better idea of whether or not @siteunseen is putting you on the right path. If I have time, I'll make a short video to demonstrate.

Setting idle speed: You can buy a multimeter like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002LZU7K or a fancy timing light like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EVU8J8 (Yes, I have both.) You can even find a handheld tachometer, but I haven't used one myself.

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2 hours ago, SteveJ said:

Close, it was to keep the points from burning up.

Isn't that what the condenser (capacitor) in the distributor is for?  The ballast is to keep the coil from burning up.  It's the thermomechanical version of "current-limiting" ignition modules.  Kettering.

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4 hours ago, Wally said:

2. the fusible link on starter. Something is wrong. I keep burning through these. After the video i made starting it the wire burned up again.

When, exactly, does it "burn up"?  I remember your past threads.

Does it get hot when you connect the battery, or when you turn the key on, or when you turn the key to Start, or when the engine is running?  I would narrow it down to one of those four, it will tell you a lot.

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3 hours ago, SteveJ said:

Fusible link diagnostics:

It helps to have a DC clamp ammeter like this: https://www.amazon.com/KAIWEETS-Multimeter-Auto-ranging-Temperature-Capacitance/dp/B07Z398YWF

  1. Test the voltage at the battery with the car off. Record the result.
  2. Test the voltage at the battery with the car running. Record the result. Note: If it is above 15V at idle - there is your problem.
  3. Test the current through the fusible link with the key in ON but car not running. Record the result. Note: If the meter shows a negative value, remove the clamp, face the meter in the opposite direction, and put it back over the fusible link.
  4. Leaving the ammeter around the fusible link, test the current through the fusible link with the car running. Record the result. Note: The polarity of the current should change.

From this we should get a better idea of whether or not @siteunseen is putting you on the right path. If I have time, I'll make a short video to demonstrate.

Setting idle speed: You can buy a multimeter like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002LZU7K or a fancy timing light like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EVU8J8 (Yes, I have both.) You can even find a handheld tachometer, but I haven't used one myself.

thanks. i will try to do this but it might take some time

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1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

When, exactly, does it "burn up"?  I remember your past threads.

Does it get hot when you connect the battery, or when you turn the key on, or when you turn the key to Start, or when the engine is running?  I would narrow it down to one of those four, it will tell you a lot.

good question. it burns up when turning the key and cranking the engine up

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The starter draws huge current.  It should draw through the main positive cable.  But it also needs a good ground.  Are you sure that the "fusible link" is on the positive side?  Or do you have it connected to the wrong terminal at the starter?  I'll see if I can see it in your video.

Anyway, it sounds like your starter circuit is the problem.

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4 hours ago, pogden said:

Seems like your carbs need adjusting. It looks like the "fast idle screw" has some play (meaning, it's not the forcing the throttle mechanism open), which is good. Maybe just back the throttle adjustment screws on each carb off 1/4 turn at a time until the idle sounds right.

I'm not sure how the ballast resistor could cause a high idle - I think it functioned to allow a hotter spark during start, followed by a somewhat tamer spark for normal running. 

about the ballast resistor, i didn't mean it affects the idling. What i read was if you put in electronic ignition you should eliminate the ballast resistor but if you leave it hooked up their are some crossed signals somewhere that prevents the tachometer from registering activity....that could be all BS but i read that somewhere

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11 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Hard to see what's connected to what here.  Not a great video, most of it points at nothing.  No offense.

Your problem is probably here though.

image.png

no worries. is this image any better?

IMG_3083.jpg

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That is better.  It looks correct.

Seems like your alternator voltage is not being regulated.  The engine starts and the alternator pumps out too much voltage and current.  the high idle makes it worse.

So, the problem is either in the alternator itself or the wiring to the S terminal at the plug.  I think that this has been discussed before.  The wiring at the plug on the ZCD alternator is still not right.  Maybe you could dig up those old posts about the ZCD alternator wiring.

6 hours ago, Wally said:

I had someone look at car when i wasnt around. They told me the alternator was pulling 18volts

 

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@Zed Headwasn’t there an adapter plug for the alternator harness mentioned in an earlier thread from MSA that was required for the higher amperage alternators. Could that possibly be thrown in the mix? Just a thought 

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11 hours ago, Yarb said:

@Zed Headwasn’t there an adapter plug for the alternator harness mentioned in an earlier thread from MSA that was required for the higher amperage alternators. Could that possibly be thrown in the mix? Just a thought 

there was. I bought that plug when i got this alternator. So i am using the plug ZCD said too. I likely have something hooked up wrong though. 

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12 hours ago, Zed Head said:

That is better.  It looks correct.

Seems like your alternator voltage is not being regulated.  The engine starts and the alternator pumps out too much voltage and current.  the high idle makes it worse.

So, the problem is either in the alternator itself or the wiring to the S terminal at the plug.  I think that this has been discussed before.  The wiring at the plug on the ZCD alternator is still not right.  Maybe you could dig up those old posts about the ZCD alternator wiring.

 

i agree. something is off with the voltage. Someone told me that this alternator has an internal regulator and thus dont use the OEM one. i bought the voltage blockoff plug...that is in currently. I will get some image or a video uploaded in a day to two. thanks

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here is a better image of my alternator connected up. The plug you see is the one made for the alternator. I looked at an older post i made on this and i believe i 

connected everything properly/as suggested.

 

I am a little confused though (to say the least). 

Per the page of ZCD, in description it says, 

"the plugs red wire connects to switched 12V and black wire connects to the positive post on the alternator."

 

I have the red wire connected to my yellow wire from my harness...This should be the ignition key on?

I have the black wire connected to the white/black stripe wire which i hope is the "12v post (or positive post on alternator)?" On the ZCD page

I'm a little unsure if these 2 are connected properly..

 

 

I double checked that this alternator is supposed to have an internal regulator thus use the blockoff for the OEM voltage regulator.

I just got in the  DC clamp ammeter SteveJ suggested. I will try to figure it out and post results of what i can. I dont really want to try and crank it just yet as i am down to my last fusible link and i am sure i will burn it up it i try to crank it now...

i guess i will buy a couple more though. i can easily take alternator off and up to oreillys to get a free check on it though and will try to do so later today.

 

Whole point of this alternator was i wanted to upgrade my sound system which includes 

-2 small speakers up front near where feet go in floorboards and 2 6x9s in rear. I have a nice head unit and a small/medium amplifier. THus, i figured i needed to upgrade 

from the OEM alternator which i was told was 40amps. Now i am looking it says they are 60amps. Maybe i should just order a OEM alternator if 60 would be enough. Anyone have any thoughts on power consumption

and adequacy from the OEM one?

 

 

IMG_3087.jpg

Edited by Wally
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oreillys said alternator failed their tests. Here is a printout of screen. 

I have to say...i am not overall sure of their test though...maybe i will take it to advance auto to confirm results.

IMG_3088.jpg

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the guy at Advance auto said something internal was bad. He said machine couldnt do a full test because something was shorting out. Guess that is one problem solved

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Good luck getting an exchange or refund from ZCD.  

You can get a 60 amp 280ZX alternator from almost any auto parts store and go back to the "T" plug.  It should bolt right up and work just fine.  

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3 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Good luck getting an exchange or refund from ZCD.  

You can get a 60 amp 280ZX alternator from almost any auto parts store and go back to the "T" plug.  It should bolt right up and work just fine.  

Yep. i emailed them but dont expect anything.

I was thinking to get (unless ya'll have another opinion) the 60amp upgraded alternator from motorsports. https://www.thezstore.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=12-4068It has an internal regulator with it so wont need the external voltage regulator. 

I read that using the external voltage regulator was not nearly as good as having an internal one? If that is wrong then yes i would prefer to just by a 60amp OEM type as its only like $50 locally.

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