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New electric fan wiring preventing car from starting


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Hey guys I just got back home after doing some work on the 260z. When I bought the car it did not have a fan or fan clutch (honestly no idea why), so after I finally got the car running and the brakes and clutch in order my last step was to install a fan, the prices were higher than i expected so I just decided to do a electric fan setup. So I bought a Hayden electric fan relay wiring kit, and a small 12inch fan (with plans on adding a second one soon, I just really want to drive the car. I believed I had everything wired up correctly, relay to ground and positive battery terminal, one wire to ignition coil, one wire to thermostat, and one wire to the fan (fan was grounded on one of the radiator bolts). I go to start the car to see if the fan works, but the car cranks, but won't start. I remembered that I forgot to plug in the ignition coil again and after plugging it in the same problem continued. I wasn't sure what was going on. I kept trying, and the battery eventually gave out so I jump started it, but this time I unplugged the wire from the relay to the ignition coil and it fired right up. While the car was running I tried to hold the wire from the relay to the ignition coil to the pos terminal on the coil, and as soon as i did the car quickly started to die. So to me it seems that somehow the wire coming from the fan relay is drawing power from the coil. But i have two questions about this, number one: if the car is already running, theoretically couldnt I unplug the ignition coil and it keep running? second: could it be a bad ground somewhere? I am a little worried about the ground on the radiator bolt but I'm not sure. Ive attached an image of the relay kit and the wiring diagram for it belowHayden Temperature Switch-3647 - The Home Depot.html

p-475-3647-fan-controllers.pdf

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48 minutes ago, bravemushi260z said:

Hey guys I just got back home after doing some work on the 260z. When I bought the car it did not have a fan or fan clutch (honestly no idea why), so after I finally got the car running and the brakes and clutch in order my last step was to install a fan, the prices were higher than i expected so I just decided to do a electric fan setup. So I bought a Hayden electric fan relay wiring kit, and a small 12inch fan (with plans on adding a second one soon, I just really want to drive the car. I believed I had everything wired up correctly, relay to ground and positive battery terminal, one wire to ignition coil, one wire to thermostat, and one wire to the fan (fan was grounded on one of the radiator bolts). I go to start the car to see if the fan works, but the car cranks, but won't start. I remembered that I forgot to plug in the ignition coil again and after plugging it in the same problem continued. I wasn't sure what was going on. I kept trying, and the battery eventually gave out so I jump started it, but this time I unplugged the wire from the relay to the ignition coil and it fired right up. While the car was running I tried to hold the wire from the relay to the ignition coil to the pos terminal on the coil, and as soon as i did the car quickly started to die. So to me it seems that somehow the wire coming from the fan relay is drawing power from the coil. But i have two questions about this, number one: if the car is already running, theoretically couldnt I unplug the ignition coil and it keep running? second: could it be a bad ground somewhere? I am a little worried about the ground on the radiator bolt but I'm not sure. Ive attached an image of the relay kit and the wiring diagram for it belowHayden Temperature Switch-3647 - The Home Depot.html

p-475-3647-fan-controllers.pdf 674.9 kB · 1 download

Which terminal on the coil are you connected to?

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11 minutes ago, bravemushi260z said:

Im connected to the positive side of the coil

 

Don't attach it to the ignition coil. When you do, the fan controller grounds the ignition, killing it.

Attach the yellow wire to a source that is hot when the key is in the on position.

 

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6 minutes ago, bravemushi260z said:

Im connected to the positive side of the coil

 

If you have a stock setup on your ignition, you are wiring it contrary to the instructions you posted.

So, here is how you should have the control box wired to the car according to the instructions:

  1. Black - Grounded
  2. Green - Nothing (assuming you don't have AC)
  3. Yellow - To the black/white wire at the ballast resistor
  4. Red - Battery

Note, if you have the red and yellow reversed, the car will probably die/not start because you are trying to draw too much current from the ignition circuit.

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Posted (edited)

This part might be confusing.  It's just poorly written instructions.  It should say "switched power" or "ignition switch".  One of those lost-in-translation things.  Plus the fact they're calling a power source a "signal". It's not a signal.

image.png

Edited by Zed Head
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23 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

This part might be confusing.  It's just poorly written instructions.  It should say "switched power" or "ignition switch".  One of those lost-in-translation things.  Plus the fact they're calling a power source a "signal".  It's not a signal.

image.png

In controls vernacular the yellow wire is a "signal". In this case, the ignition being on signals the fan that it is okay to run if the engine is hot.

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Okay got it, I’ll connect the yellow to the ballast resistor wire tomorrow before I get started, I see now how I am grounding it. I’ll test the wires this time with the key on to also make sure I am getting the right one Thank you guys so much for your help 

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1 hour ago, SteveJ said:

In controls vernacular the yellow wire is a "signal". In this case, the ignition being on signals the fan that it is okay to run if the engine is hot.

I knew I should have taken those courses.  I didn't like the instructor and had other options.

I modified my post.  I would think of the temperature switch as the signal.

To be frank though, I'm not even really sure what parts Mushi is working with.  Does he have the full controller or just a temperature switch running (signalling) a relay?  Unclear.

 

Just to fill things out.  It seems to fit the subject. Not too late, for me.  - https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/systems/electronic-system.html

Edited by Zed Head
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16 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

I knew I should have taken those courses.  I didn't like the instructor and had other options.

I modified my post.  I would think of the temperature switch as the signal.

To be frank though, I'm not even really sure what parts Mushi is working with.  Does he have the full controller or just a temperature switch running (signalling) a relay?  Unclear.

 

Just to fill things out.  It seems to fit the subject. Not too late, for me.  - https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/systems/electronic-system.html

The OP is using a kit that has a controller in addition to the thermoswitch and relay.

Edited by Racer X
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2 hours ago, SteveJ said:

If you have a stock setup on your ignition, you are wiring it contrary to the instructions you posted.

So, here is how you should have the control box wired to the car according to the instructions:

  1. Black - Grounded
  2. Green - Nothing (assuming you don't have AC)
  3. Yellow - To the black/white wire at the ballast resistor
  4. Red - Battery

Note, if you have the red and yellow reversed, the car will probably die/not start because you are trying to draw too much current from the ignition circuit.

I don’t believe I have them reversed, I am positive the red and yellow are going to the right spot (it’s a lot more clear with newer wires haha). Regarding the black/white wire at the ballast resistor, i should hook it up after the resistor but before the coil right? I attached a picture of the wiring diagram and circled where I intend to wire it into.

C159C756-0390-46CD-9835-369EB641F3FF.jpeg

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12 minutes ago, bravemushi260z said:

I don’t believe I have them reversed, I am positive the red and yellow are going to the right spot (it’s a lot more clear with newer wires haha). Regarding the black/white wire at the ballast resistor, i should hook it up after the resistor but before the coil right? I attached a picture of the wiring diagram and circled where I intend to wire it into.

C159C756-0390-46CD-9835-369EB641F3FF.jpeg

No, it goes to the black/white wire on the resistor.

image.png

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7 minutes ago, SteveJ said:

No, it goes to the black/white wire on the resistor.

image.png

Got it, I will take a look when I get into it tomorrow morning, hopefully it works. Unfortunately won’t be able to take it out until I get the mustang that’s blocking off the jack stands 😆. More motivation to get its transmission back in I guess 

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28 minutes ago, bravemushi260z said:

Got it, just watched this video, thank you so much

I did not watch the whole video so can't speak to its correctness.  I posted it for the label on the part, and maybe the video is right.  Good luck.

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Thanks to all of you guys for your help @Zed Head @SteveJ @Racer X, I got it working as soon as I was hooked up to the resistor instead of the coil. Unfortunately it’s not enough cooling and the car is still getting a bit hotter than I would like, so I’ll be getting another 12 inch and installing it next to the first one, as well as setting the temp it comes on lower

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How are you measuring temperature? Via the gauge? With an infrared thermometer? At what point in the system were you measuring the temperature? I will tend to agree that a 12 inch fan may be too small.

Things to consider:

  1. Water pump - Are the impeller blades corroded to nothing?
  2. Gunk in the system - Have you flushed the cooling system?
  3. Lean combustion - Lean is hotter.

You might want to take the radiator cap off when the car is cool and watch for coolant flow when the car is running.

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I’m measuring temp based on the gauge, I know it’s running hot because I’m still getting run on when I turn off the car, there may be air getting in somewhere so I will check with some carb cleaner and see if I hear any change in RPM. For the cooling system I’ve flushed it twice before running the car and have all new fluid in there, also know it’s flowing well from some small leaks I had and fixed. I may be running Lean so I’ll mess with the carbs s bit and see if it fixed anything. Heading over where the car is before class and will take a look at the impeller blades 

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The fan only has an effect at very slow speeds.  If you're seeing high temperatures while cruising at, like, 20 mph or higher, it's not a fan problem.  Unless the fan and shroud are actually blocking air flow.

Run-on (dieseling) is usually caused by running rich, carbon deposits in the combustion chamber getting hot.

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3 hours ago, bravemushi260z said:

I’m measuring temp based on the gauge, I know it’s running hot because I’m still getting run on when I turn off the car, . . . 
 

Dieseling, or running on after shutting the key off is caused by excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. The carbon gets super heated, and when the key is switched off, killing the ignition spark, the glowing bits of carbon continue to ignite the air/fuel mixture.

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18 hours ago, Zed Head said:

The fan only has an effect at very slow speeds.  If you're seeing high temperatures while cruising at, like, 20 mph or higher, it's not a fan problem.  Unless the fan and shroud are actually blocking air flow.

Run-on (dieseling) is usually caused by running rich, carbon deposits in the combustion chamber getting hot.

So I have the overheating problem with the car just idling for about 15-20 minutes, could be carbon deposits since I dont know how this car was running before I got it. 

 

18 hours ago, Racer X said:

Dieseling, or running on after shutting the key off is caused by excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. The carbon gets super heated, and when the key is switched off, killing the ignition spark, the glowing bits of carbon continue to ignite the air/fuel mixture.

I am looking into how to get this out, do you recommend fuel additives? I had originally run sea foam with my gas to clean everything up, but is there something people recommend for these cars?

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20 hours ago, bravemushi260z said:

So I have the overheating problem with the car just idling for about 15-20 minutes, could be carbon deposits since I dont know how this car was running before I got it. 
 

Carbon deposits won’t cause engine overheating.

A cooling system that is not well maintained will. Radiator passages clogged with rust and mineral deposits will. A water pump with a corroded impeller will.

 

20 hours ago, bravemushi260z said:

 

I am looking into how to get this out, do you recommend fuel additives? I had originally run sea foam with my gas to clean everything up, but is there something people recommend for these cars?

I use Techroline, the additive that Chevron puts in their gasoline. It can be found in better auto parts stores. 

Warm the engine, then introduce it through the carburetor while working the throttle by hand (as it gets into the combustion chamber the engine will stumble and want to die, don’t let that happen). 
 

Just as the last of the Techroline is getting sucked into the engine, let it die, so the stuff can soak in. After a half hour or so, restart the engine, and blow the rest of the carbon out.

The only other way is to remove the head and clean everything up.

 

 

But.

 

It sounds like your engine is one with high miles. Cooling system issues, carbon buildup, these are indicators of an engine with a lot of miles on it.

 

 

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