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DC871F

Future of driving a "classic" car

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My local station is currently selling at £1.17 / litre which is consistent with your US gal figures or $6.95 UK gallon.

When I bought my first car in 1995, it was as low as £0.38 / litre. How is it we haven’t gone out with our pitch forks? Well, it’s the boiling a frog situation! Little by little it rises and people just swallow it.

We did have protests back in the early 2000s when it hit £1 / litre but people soon forget and move on. You could argue it’s offset by wage inflation and car efficiency going up.

But what kills me is that 70% of our fuel price here is tax! Also, every time I see an Arab number plate on a n illegally parked gold super car / Lamborghini in central London (clearly flown over on a private 747 for kudos) I can’t help thinking I own a small share of that car given what we spend at the pumps!

Rant over!

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My take on taxing fuel in my country is as simple as higher prices on everything that has to be transported. After Katrina diesel fuel prices went crazy. Then the trickle down began to cause consumer prices to rise on everyday needs. We vote with our wallets over here and there's way more empty ones than full.

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6 hours ago, AK260 said:

Allow me to contradict my own post further up this thread ....


https://apple.news/A_WTyIGgMQ9S62iVeM8c3Xw

Been going to Delhi for years, everytime descending below 10,000 feet you begin to smell the pollution and by the time you're at the hotel my lungs would be burning. Black funk comes out everytime you blow your nose.

Climate change (if you believe the current climate of it) pun intended,  and India is a joke, they cant even make the air inhabitable. Maybe billions of US tax dollars will clean it up.

Edited by DC871F
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The topic of this thread occasionally popped in my head the past few days, and while driving the z, I came to a realization: We're quite possibly the last generation(s) to have access to and appreciation of the older generations' ways of life. Maybe I could have said that better, but let me explain. 

This realization came when thinking about the z, but applies to a whole lot more. While owning the 240, I've had a lot of people from older generations come up and say something to the effect of, "Oh, I remember the z, that was my first car," or "One of my buddies had one, boy was it fast." Point is, the history books will tell of the various epochs of the older generations (the music, social change, technological advancements, and so on), but we're the last ones to hear, first hand, what they have to say about their time. The principle applies ideologically as well - a lot of us have parents or grandparents from the old days, and so we were raised with the sentimentalities of their times to varying degrees. These values will fade into the vague representations of history with them. Just as we hardly know anything tangible, mundane about how people lived and thought in 1900, so too will our children seldom know anything about the way people were in the 70's. All our children, worse yet grandchildren, will know is from books and how their schooling represents the old times, which is hardly the truth. History makes the unclear reality of human existence appear black and white. 

I've gone on long enough and probably bowdlerized the meaning of all this. Much like music, driving the 240 is a time capsule for me, where I can imagine I'm back in the 70's or 80's. We're close enough for the 70's to still feel real, but the same can not be said for the generations to come. When electric cars become commonplace, people who never drove a petrol engined car won't know the enjoyment of sitting in it as it shakes while idling and howls at high rpm's. This appeared to me like allegory for the everyday lives of people from the past. We're quite possibly the last generation(s) to have access to and appreciation of the older generations' ways of life.

 

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That is a brilliant perspective! Love it. I had similar thoughts driving the other evening and thinking that along the same lines of in a couple of generations, people will want modified classics over original. For the reason that they’ve known the cars through the PlayStation and may find the stock experience rather dull in comparison.

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Ah, nostalgia...

p.s. look at that little kid about to get enveloped in carcinogenic smoke.  Thanks Dad, that was neat...

I grew up in a smoking family with pre-converter cars in the driveway.  Everybody smoked, it was a deep lung hack-fest every morning when the relatives got together for the holidays.  Now, I can smell a cigarette from a block away and a pre-cat car from a mile behind.  It's incredible how we don't realize how bad things are until they're gone.

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Edited by Zed Head
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8 hours ago, Tweeds said:

The topic of this thread occasionally popped in my head the past few days, and while driving the z, I came to a realization: We're quite possibly the last generation(s) to have access to and appreciation of the older generations' ways of life. Maybe I could have said that better, but let me explain. 

 
 
 
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This realization came when thinking about the z, but applies to a whole lot more. While owning the 240, I've had a lot of people from older generations come up and say something to the effect of, "Oh, I remember the z, that was my first car," or "One of my buddies had one, boy was it fast." Point is, the history books will tell of the various epochs of the older generations (the music, social change, technological advancements, and so on), but we're the last ones to hear, first hand, what they have to say about their time. The principle applies ideologically as well - a lot of us have parents or grandparents from the old days, and so we were raised with the sentimentalities of their times to varying degrees. These values will fade into the vague representations of history with them. Just as we hardly know anything tangible, mundane about how people lived and thought in 1900, so too will our children seldom know anything about the way people were in the 70's. All our children, worse yet grandchildren, will know is from books and how their schooling represents the old times, which is hardly the truth. History makes the unclear reality of human existence appear black and white. 

 
 
 
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I've gone on long enough and probably bowdlerized the meaning of all this. Much like music, driving the 240 is a time capsule for me, where I can imagine I'm back in the 70's or 80's. We're close enough for the 70's to still feel real, but the same can not be said for the generations to come. When electric cars become commonplace, people who never drove a petrol engined car won't know the enjoyment of sitting in it as it shakes while idling and howls at high rpm's. This appeared to me like allegory for the everyday lives of people from the past. We're quite possibly the last generation(s) to have access to and appreciation of the older generations' ways of life.

 

My kids, 15,19, 21, all girls, had to progress is their driving "privilege" of driving. The 15 year old is the last one going through this process.

They all started on a 1956 Beetle, then 1965 C20 Pickup 4 on the floor, then at the time 82 280ZX. Then it turned out the 20 yr old when she was 17 was what the insurance companies call a 'risk', so she drove the 280zx full time with collector car insurance for $220/yr. She scoffed at first, but riding the bus to school was worse, then she became very popular when she drove the red Datsun to school, and this was jut 3 years ago, she then became very fond of the 280zx.

So there are at least 3 younger types out there who actually like older classic cars. 

I did all this so they wouldnt be texting and driving  and doing nothing but driving until they got their everyday car, it was just for learning "how to drive".

Edited by DC871F
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Now days the 4 on the floor is also a theft deterrent. Not that many youngsters know how to drive them. 😁 Our youngest is in his mid 40's so we're now looking at grandkids that are coming up on driving age, oldest is 13 and goes down to the youngest of 8. These kids really have no interest in cars other than a way for mom, dad and grandparents to take them somewhere. The 8 and 11 year old think it's cool to ride in the bed of grandma's truck in the parade at one of the local car shows, but that's it. By the time they're grown into their 20's and 30's I think they'll have an app where they summon a self driving car to take them wherever and about anything they buy will be over the airwaves and delivered so shopping as it has been when we grew up will no longer exist. Most people will not own or drive cars and it will probably require a special permit to drive your own vehicle. Our niece in Germany is in her 30's and has never owned a car. Europe is way ahead of the USA on public transportation, but they also really don't have the distances we do. When she's been over here visiting my wife and I talked about going to St George, UT from our home in Layton, UT for the winter and our niece asked how far it was to St George. Her dad said "It's about a Germany south from here". This was somewhat of a revelation to her on how big geographically the USA is compared to Europe.

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[Europe is way ahead of the USA on public transportation,]


Let’s not include the UK in that statement!! ;)

Our public transport system, despite the small distances utterly sucks!!! Germany, France etc had to totally rebuild their infrastructure after WW2. We here carried on evolving steam train era systems and mentality! Also their governments have had better focus / strategies for public transport beyond just making money off it. One of the things I love about France / Germany is how some of their intercity rail follows their motorways.

You make a great point about the future and how many if not most people won’t drive cars + the rest of us nutters will need special licenses / permission to drive! One day we may even look back and wonder at the folly of letting humans operate such dangerous machines while smoking, talking, being tired etc! In the future, Classic car drivers will all become Will Smith in iRobot.

It in the near term, I totally see a world where freight is self driving until it reaches a city where a driver can do the complicated bits.




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in the 70's driving was the number one objective for teens, at least males (well other stuff as well but we are talking cars here). I got my learners on my 15th b day, same with reg on my 16th b day. drove motorcycle on my 15th b day, every day of the week. same with car when 16. left in the morning home late at night, if not school, then work (min wage), or social. Home is the last place you wanted to be. So Clearly driving was everything, and we worried about running out of gas back then, why cause then we could not do the one thing that was so central to teen existence. The idea of being driven around would get you laugh at, bullying was the way the social order was maintained. VERY different these days, and I presume every generation has the same experience, therefore trying to project into the future becomes a bit of a folly as far as what will be the driving force with large scale problems. when I was young it was common to see gangs of youths wandering the streets looking for action, now I rarely see young folks or old folks outside, but for a few throw backs like myself out cutting the lawn (that is left to "lawn men" for most folks around me). There was some hope though, I took my dirt bike out Saturday for a ride in the woods, there were a ton of people of all ages out enjoying the outdoors. I drive a classic dirt bike (1978 RM400 Suzuki) and there was a lot of attention by mostly older guys digging on the old bike reliving there youth when they had one.

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I, too, see my Zed as a time machine. When I drive it I listen to cassette tapes I made when I had my first Zed in 1974. At 75 I won't see the end of gasoline powered cars so no worries there.  I love my '17 Subaru Outback for its modernity, but the Zed makes me smile more. All my kids and, so far, all my grands learned to drive stick shift. I think it makes them better drivers. I'm loving this thread. It is a great discussion in these troubled times.

Cheers, Mike

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here is a prediction for you, I hear a lot about setting up an electric infrastructure for electric cars, I suspect a much bigger problem will be an infrastructure for the internet.

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1 hour ago, Pop's Z said:

I, too, see my Zed as a time machine. When I drive it I listen to cassette tapes I made when I had my first Zed in 1974. At 75 I won't see the end of gasoline powered cars so no worries there.  I love my '17 Subaru Outback for its modernity, but the Zed makes me smile more. All my kids and, so far, all my grands learned to drive stick shift. I think it makes them better drivers. I'm loving this thread. It is a great discussion in these troubled times.

Cheers, Mike

I'm in a similar position at age 70; I think my driving years will end before gas does. I actually listen mostly to FM and even AM radio when I drive!! I hope that my sound deadening project on my '83 ZX works, because I look forward to putting more miles on it in the good weather we currently enjoy here.

There's lots of stuff to think about in terms of transportation and where we're going with it.

Distance and the difference between living conditions in various areas is very much an issue in the US.  I live in Colorado and was in Texas for 13 years before that.  Many Texans don't think much of driving 60+ miles each way just to buy groceries, and there are small towns all over the west which simply don't have goods and services available locally. If you haven't lived west of the Mississippi it may be hard to understand just how remote and distantly separated the western US really is.

In much of the western US, there is simply no public transportation at all. Bus lines hit only single points in a limited number of communities, and there are no other options.  I have felt for years that giving up much of the railroad right of way was a huge mistake, and that in the future we;'ll want our passenger train lines again. The discussion about a passenger line from Fort Collins (60 miles north of Denver) to Pueblo (about 80 miles south of Denver) is heating up because the Interstate is overloaded and has been for a few years. The only capacity Colorado is adding to its highways these days is toll lanes, which aren't a solution to the number of cars moving through the population centers between Fort Collins and Pueblo.

It also will be a long time before it makes any sense to install electrical charging stations in those places, so aside from private residence chargers there won't be charging services for decades. And if you have to drive 80 or 100 miles each way to get from Smallsburg to your nearest shipping area and back, you have to think seriously about range and the limited potential for side trips.

Thinking a bit more about this, I suspect the only way we'll get a well distributed charging infrastructure is if there's a nationwide government funded project comparable to the creation of the Interstate highway system. The political difficulty of funding such a project is obvious, as least until gas and oil prices move upward significantly.

Edited by Pilgrim

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2 hours ago, Pop's Z said:

I, too, see my Zed as a time machine. When I drive it I listen to cassette tapes I made when I had my first Zed in 1974. At 75 I won't see the end of gasoline powered cars so no worries there.  I love my '17 Subaru Outback for its modernity, but the Zed makes me smile more. All my kids and, so far, all my grands learned to drive stick shift. I think it makes them better drivers. I'm loving this thread. It is a great discussion in these troubled times.

Cheers, Mike

drove the brand new 260z to the high school prom. Was on the road yesterday on the radio was disco, yikes... but it did take me back! the new car next to me had some kind of thumping noise, think it was music, but I don't think the car will be around for long, sounded like it was rattling apart at the stop light. My old radio has maybe 5 watts max, that and disco not likely to damage spot welds.

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And then gents, there is this ....




If only we had original molds available for the S30 world!

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