Parts for Sale: 4x reproduction Nissan Fairlady Z432-R ‘works’ wheels in aluminum

[RIP260Z]

To add some balance (as essentially as I see it, these are a M-speed product), I brought a set (z432 style not the "works" style on this thread) via Yahoo Japan about 2 years ago through M-speed's auction, well before anybody else outside of Japan.

M-speed has their Z432 style and Works style are listed here;

https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/search/search?auccat=&tab_ex=commerce&ei=utf-8&aq=-1&oq=&sc_i=&exflg=1&p=ホイールマグ+z432&x=25&y=22

Or I can supply Jamel's email for direct contact.

[Patcon]

I guess my question on all of this is what is M speeds agreement with the manufacturer? is there a clear cut line that forbids the manufacturer from selling these through another venue. Is approval required for the factory to sell these are not. This has been one of the problems with mainland manufacturing for some time. They require foreigners to build plants with domestic contractors and domestic engineers. Then they go down the road and build a duplicate plant to generate copy cat products. This was a huge problem with top level golf clubs for a while, as an example

[Sean Dezart]

I didn't have any problem with M-Speed Japan having wheels made and selling them to the general public, as they were good quality and a fair price for ex-Japan sales. I recommended the M-Speed reproductions to several people, and several friends of mine bought them and are happy with them. So, no problem at all with M-Speed product.

So, you have approved the Chinese factory wheels and it's hardly surprising that you and your friends thought them a ‘fair’* price compared to Made in Japan JDM wheel prices as these wheel manufacturing costs were so much less.**

Negative, or just willing to call you out? I'll put that down as both a 'cannot' and a 'will not'.

You can put that down as ‘CBA’, Alan but I answered your questions in the Z432 thread and copy them here for your information :

These wheels are of the same quality as those offered for sale by M-Speed so I don't need to have visited the factory to satisfy myself of their build quality and metal content - please stop scaremondering the public - it's is irresponsable and you place a doubt on anything 'made in China - THAT is what our initial discussion was on the subject of these wheels - your consistently blinkered belief that anything made outside of Japan is of an inferior quality for 'our' Zs !

Since you haven't answered my above questions, it's hard to come to any conclusions. . If M-Speed Japan have green-lighted sales direct from the Chinese factory for some reason (there could be any number of reasons).

You don't answer any of mine so try to reach those conclusions - you’re a smart man but I'll help you out again - M-Speed aren't selling enough for the factory to make money....now, why aren't they selling enough and before I came along.....? The product excitation has long since died down after their apparition two years ago.

If they hadn't been out-sourced to a Chinese factory, they would probably never have existed if we accept the actuel price of them reflecting the real start-up investment ; making them elsewhere made them possible. But again you are guessing, surmising as to how much are the costs ! I know because I've paid for the molds of another wheel and I know the build costs of these current wheels. I'm no multi-national parts group, I could afford it !

 

 

Now the angle is 'piracy' ! But who (if anyone) is committing piracy here..........?

piracy : the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work.

.......the buyer, the seller or the productor ? I bought these simply by contacting the factory and asking to buy them : "yessir, how many would you like - there is a MOQ (minimum-order-quantity)" ? Alan, no doubt correctly, states that these have been on sale for two years....plenty of time to have sold hundreds and recovered the start-up costs......but the wheels aren't selling (wonder why ?*) and the factory needs to produce and sell...that's how any factory makes money for it's owners and workers ! *M-Speed have set the marker price too high !!! Please stop manipulating the public.

Did M-Speed even have permission to copy a Nissan factory wheel ?

 

These wheels and those of M-Speed are not made in Japan, they are not genuine, period wheels - we all call them 'reproductions' but to all intents and purposes they're 'fakes' .

Knock-offs – the definition quoted from https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/knock-off : a cheap copy of a popular product

That sums up M-Speeds’ wheels and mine ! Or are we saying that so long as that cheap product is sold expensively, it’s rubber-stamped as ok ? We’re getting close here to the emperors’ clothes…..

In someone elses' world, $650 per wheel might be a ‘fair’ price but I’m just another reguler guy with kids in college and I'm offering them to reguler Z owners at an affordable price - $350 each upon which I’m making a ‘fair’ profit with which to reinvest.

This company doesn't sell these for free, they're getting their cut out of the M-Speed profit margin : https://jdm-car-parts.com/products/reproduction-fairlady-z432-magnesium-wheels-aluminum-wheel-sold-individually?variant=15222843539565

 

Perhaps it does come down to ethics : you either buy mine or you pay double the price, believing that 100% goes to help M-Speed......like sending money to African-aid charities where 5% of it finally reaches those that need it unless the local warlord or civil servant doesn't pocket that too !

1) I believe that every Z owner should have access to quality parts at affordable prices.

2) Alan, by attempting to place doubts on these wheels' quality, by stigmating anyone who touches them as a pirate and suggesting that you should pay double my price if you REALLY want them merely, IMO, highlights his wish to keep this 'look' to an exclusive 'club' of owners who can throw that sort of money at their cars - his reasons against my entreprise are solely driven by a selfish desire not to see the prolification of these wheels which, in his words,  "is bad for all of us in the long run".

 

To show my good intentions and to support this forum, I will offer a us$60 reduction of the purchase of a set of these wheels to all supporting members.

ps : proof that I know what it costs to make wheels !

[HS30-H]

15 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

These wheels are of the same quality as those offered for sale by M-Speed so I don't need to have visited the factory to satisfy myself of their buildquality and metal content - please stop scaremondering the public - it's is irresponsable and you place a doubt on anything 'made in China - THAT is what our initial discussion was on the subject of these wheels - your consistently blinkered belief that anything made outside of Japan is of an inferior quality for 'our' Zs !

How can you possibly be sure that the wheels you are selling are "of the same quality" as those sold by M-Speed Japan, with M-Speed's stickers and reputation riding on them? I don't see how it is within your gift to vouch for what is going on in a factory that you have never visited, and for a product which you clearly have no paper trail on which to base your statement.

15 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

 If they hadn't been out-sourced to a Chinese factory, they would probably never have existed if we accept the actuel price of them reflecting the real start-up investment ; making them elsewhere made them possible. But again you are guessing, surmising as to how much are the costs ! I know because I've paid for the molds of another wheel and I know the build costs of these current wheels. I'm no multi-national parts group, I could afford it !

Straw man argument. Reproductions of these wheels have been made for many years. At least four runs that I know of were made in Japan, and one run - in Magnesium, and including a scaled-up 15" version - here in the UK. Nothing is stopping anybody from making them. 

You have not paid for the full costs of the wheels that you are selling here. M-Speed Japan did. You're riding on M-Speed Japan's investment. 

15 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

I bought these simply by contacting the factory and asking to buy them : "yessir, how many would you like - there is a MOQ (minimum-order-quantity)" ? Alan, no doute correctly, sgtates that these have been on sale for two years....plenty of time to have sold hundreds and recovered the start-up costs......but the wheels aren't selling (wonder why ?*) and the factory needs to produce and sell...that's how any factory makes money for it's owners and workers ! *M-Speed have set the marker price too high !!! Please stop manipulating the public.

Your moral compass needs a re-set. I've asked you before whether you'd be happy for anyone to approach the Chinese factory which makes your Z-Story exhausts for you, and to start selling them without your permission. No answer. 

M-Speed Japan are (did you notice?) a Japanese company. They sell their goods in and from Japan. I very much doubt you know what their overheads are, or what their profit margin is, but you seem to be ready to claim that they are "manipulating the public"? How could you possibly be in a position to make that assertion?

So, what's next for you? Apple Inc. products at half the official prices? Pfft.

15 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

Did M-Speed even have permission to copy a Nissan factory wheel ?

They don't need to. There's no current copyright on that shape, as I've already pointed out.

 

15 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

Perhaps it does come down to ethics

Or in your case, the lack of... 

If you had any class, you would have approached M-Speed Japan and had a conversation with them. Maybe you could have worked something out with them. Nope, just straight to the back door, and all played out in real time on Facebook via the kid in Bulgaria.

 

15 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

Alan, by attempting to place doubts on these wheels' quality, by stigmating anyone who touches them as a pirate and suggesting that you pay double my price if you really want them merely IMO wishes to keep this 'look' to an exclusive 'club' of owners who can throw that sort of money at their cars - his reasons against my entreprise are solely driven by a selfish desire not to see the prolification of these wheels which, in his words,  "is bad for all of us in the long run".

Garbage. And totally irrelevant too.

 

You have shown photos of the wheels that you are selling, and they clearly carry cast-in logos of JWL (the standards marking of the Japan Light Wheel Alloy Association) and VIA (the Japanese Vehicle Inspection System Association registration).

VIA standards testing and certification needs to take place in Japan, and the company which paid for the VIA standards testing and certification holds the paperwork. 

And you have what, exactly?

[Sean Dezart]

5 hours ago, HS30-H said:

How can you possibly be sure that the wheels you are selling are "of the same quality" as those sold by M-Speed Japan, with M-Speed's stickers and reputation riding on them? I don't see how it is within your gift to vouch for what is going on in a factory that you have never visited, and for a product which you clearly have no paper trail on which to base your statement.

Straw man argument. Reproductions of these wheels have been made for many years. At least four runs that I know of were made in Japan, and one run - in Magnesium, and including a scaled-up 15" version - here in the UK. Nothing is stopping anybody from making them. 

You have not paid for the full costs of the wheels that you are selling here. M-Speed Japan did. You're riding on M-Speed Japan's investment. 

Your moral compass needs a re-set. I've asked you before whether you'd be happy for anyone to approach the Chinese factory which makes your Z-Story exhausts for you, and to start selling them without your permission. No answer. 

M-Speed Japan are (did you notice?) a Japanese company. They sell their goods in and from Japan. I very much doubt you know what their overheads are, or what their profit margin is, but you seem to be ready to claim that they are "manipulating the public"? How could you possibly be in a position to make that assertion?

So, what's next for you? Apple Inc. products at half the official prices? Pfft.

They don't need to. There's no current copyright on that shape, as I've already pointed out.

Or in your case, the lack of... 

If you had any class, you would have approached M-Speed Japan and had a conversation with them. Maybe you could have worked something out with them. Nope, just straight to the back door, and all played out in real time on Facebook via the kid in Bulgaria.

Garbage. And totally irrelevant too.

You have shown photos of the wheels that you are selling, and they clearly carry cast-in logos of JWL (the standards marking of the Japan Light Wheel Alloy Association) and VIA (the Japanese Vehicle Inspection System Association registration).

VIA standards testing and certification needs to take place in Japan, and the company which paid for the VIA standards testing and certification holds the paperwork. 

And you have what, exactly?

And you have what, exactly? I have wheels that show proof of their quality that as if I had bought a run of Rotas or Ataras – I don’t need to visit their factory for quality proof and neither do I for this factory – who does here when they buy after-market wheels ? Hands up !

I very much doubt you know what their overheads are, or what their profit margin is, but you seem to be ready to claim that they are "manipulating the public"? How could you possibly be in a position to make that assertion?

I’m claiming that YOU are manipulating the public – plastering doute upon the wheels’ quality, trying to install guilt upon anyone buying them – as for their overheads in Japan, that’s not stopping the wheels being sold here at inflated prices either !

Nope, just straight to the back door………………….Nothing ‘slipped’ out the back door or ‘fell off a lorry’ because as I’ve already stated – they were sold openly via an approach to the factory.

Garbage. And totally irrelevant too. So YOU would say but it’s already been stated elsewhere by one of your cronies that that seeing these on everybodys’ ordinary Z will ‘devalue’ the scene.

You don’t want to see these wheels fitted to Zs owned by Joe Public – point ! You’d like all the ‘nice bitz’ reassuringly expensive to ‘select’ their owners and keep ‘em rare – hardly a mate to M-Speed who, as a retailer, want to sell as many as possible but have failed !

Reproductions of these wheels have been made for many years. Nothing is stopping anybody from making them. Nor selling them to the general public !

I've asked you before whether you'd be happy for anyone to approach the Chinese factory which makes your Z-Story exhausts for you, and to start selling them without your permission. No answer.

Here’s your answer then :  

It is ironic that is was YOU who tipped me over to sell wheels ! Wherever the exhausts are made now, you’re right – there IS nothing to stop someone obtaining one to serve as a prototype to fabricate elsewhere !

So, I began spindle pins now with strut-brace bars, then wheels (which I expect to develop as the modest profits are reinvested) and early next year with other parts, all in parallel with a growing range of exhaust parts. And my prices are and will continue to be affordable, cost less than most competition and be of an equal or superior quality.

What do you make Alan ?  What do you BOTH do to help ordinary Z owners ?

What do you and your SW chum bring to the Z community aside from a few snippet photos and a large slice of sarcasm with cutting remarks from the safety of your keyboards ?

I’ve been a very active club member, helping others, organising events, negociating discounts from suppliers of parts and services and throughout those 31 years, promoting the marque to increase the publics’ and press’ awareness.

The only thing I haven’t done is promote our cars through recongnised motorsport and even that is about to change !

So whilst your happily criticising everyone and everything, arrogantly snug in your office, don’t preach to me about ethics !

These exchanges with you both are tiresome and pointless….just an opportunity for you both to try and score points, nit-pickers, picture-straighteners and I’m having no more of it.

These wheels are already happily selling on three continents – I shall concentrate my time and energy upon customer satisfaction instead.

Moderators – this is a for-sale thread attached to a legitamate advert – please consider if all these replies are relevant.

Owners – if you want to discuss buying a set of wheels, I invite you to PM me please.

[RIP260Z]

7 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

Reproductions of these wheels have been made for many years.

Lets be clear here, the M-speed wheels, either the Z432 style or "works" style are not reproductions of the original Kobe Seiko wheels. The M-speed are in the style of. They differ in design, and weight and I think off-set too. The z432 style and original Kobe Seiko I have, do so. The other reproductions done here in the UK and Japan, more than likely took a cast of an original to make some reproductions/replicas. The M-speed are different, therefore can't be reproductions. In the style of.

[HS30-H]

For heaven's sake Sean, when you make a reply, at least take the time to correctly format your quoting. It's easy. Just highlight the text you wish to quote and a drop-down button will appear.

[Sean Dezart]

The sales have started and of the 10x sets in the style of Z432 wheels, there remain just 5x in stock with shipments to Australia, the UK, Europe and of course two here.

Sales have also begun to flourish of the in the style of (works) 'rally-mags' with 6x sales also to various continents.....stocks are limited and I'm still not sure whether either of these two versions will be repeated.......bye for now...but wait, this just in.....:

....now available via ebay as single items if you want a cool-looking garage decoration 😆...........or buy 4x, be wild and daring against the establishment - and just fit them to a Z😏 for Real pleasure !

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392996937272?fbclid=IwAR0Y8reQg-FebpbVy5mtTPhENg1iXGbuVHv66d9UuOLEFWQXvxkvX55HxjU

 

[Sean Dezart]

Black Friday price of us$999 for a set of 4x wheels shipped to your door !

[duffymahoney]

15x8-0 please:)