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Tension rod mounts worn out - please help!

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Everyone,

                 My 17 year old picked out a 1976 Datsun 280z 2+2 as his first car. It's a father son project and we are going through the car to replace the worn parts and make it his daily driver. The clutch needs to be changed, and while we are in there and have a lot of stuff out of the car, we are replacing/cleaning up/fixing anything else we see. Immediately, we noticed all the bushings are really worn and nee replaced. When we pulled the tension arms, we found the mounts to be quite worn out. We cannot be the first people to run into this, but after many seacrches we have not located any advice on how to fix these mounts or what the original hole size should be. Mt instinct is to break out the welder and fix it that way, but we are looking for some advice. I have include some pictures so you can see what we are dealing with.

 

camaro-guy

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You are missing some metal there. There are some metal cups that are welded to each side of that mount that the bushings fit into

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Edited by Patcon

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Any idea how I am going to fix this, or where to go to get something to fix it with? Is that a 76 Datsun 280z in your picture?

 

 

Camaro-guy

 

Edited by camaro-guy

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These should be the same on all S30 chassis's

A donor is the best bet

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Mine weren't as bad as yours so I just removed the old bushing cups and made new ones.  If you want to save that mount you're going to have to cut out that rusty hole and weld in some new plate then re drill the hole, I think it is about 8-9 gauge on that tension rod mount.

 

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On 7/7/2019 at 6:29 PM, grannyknot said:

Mine weren't as bad as yours so I just removed the old bushing cups and made new ones.  If you want to save that mount you're going to have to cut out that rusty hole and weld in some new plate then re drill the hole, I think it is about 8-9 gauge on that tension rod mount.

 

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I do not mind welding in a new section. What size is the hole in the center? Is it just large enough for the end of the tension rod to pass through it?

 

Camaro-guy

 

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Just now, camaro-guy said:

I do not mind welding in a new section. What size is the hole in the center? Is it just large enough for the end of the tension rod to pass through it? I did not have any bushing cups where do they go?

 

Camaro-guy

 

 

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33 minutes ago, camaro-guy said:

I do not mind welding in a new section. What size is the hole in the center? Is it just large enough for the end of the tension rod to pass through it?

 

Camaro-guy

 

So, should there be a "Cup" on each side of the bracket the compression/tension rod passes through?

 

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On 7/7/2019 at 1:39 PM, Patcon said:

You are missing some metal there. There are some metal cups that are welded to each side of that mount that the bushings fit into

image.png

 

No offense intended camaro-guy, but Patcon answered your question exactly and even supplied a picture.  Gotta read the responses.  Good luck.

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1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

 

No offense intended camaro-guy, but Patcon answered your question exactly and even supplied a picture.  Gotta read the responses.  Good luck.

No offense taken...The image looks so different from what I actually have left, that I guess it was hard to believe...

camaro-guy

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Yes, there are cups on boths sides. Four in all. I dont know the id on the bracket hole. I am sure its somewhat oversized

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4 hours ago, camaro-guy said:

I do not mind welding in a new section. What size is the hole in the center? Is it just large enough for the end of the tension rod to pass through it?

There is a bushing that goes around the rod, and the nut compresses the two washers against it and the step in the rod.  The rubber bushings sit n between.  The hole in the cups needs to be the size of the bushing.

Do you not have the original rods?  Part #23...

http://www.carpartsmanual.com/datsuns30/Datsun-Z-Index/Axle/Front-Suspension

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1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

There is a bushing that goes around the rod, and the nut compresses the two washers against it and the step in the rod.  The rubber bushings sit n between.  The hole in the cups needs to be the size of the bushing.

Do you not have the original rods?  Part #23...

http://www.carpartsmanual.com/datsuns30/Datsun-Z-Index/Axle/Front-Suspension

I do have the original rods, and they appear to be in pretty decent condition...

 

 

Edited by camaro-guy

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1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

Ok, so if I understand what you are saying: I should look at disassembling the bracket, replace the center section, and reassemble it on the frame? 

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27 minutes ago, camaro-guy said:

 

Ok, so if I understand what you are saying: I should look at disassembling the bracket, replace the center section, and reassemble it on the frame? 

If you are going to replace the T/C bracket with another from a donor then of course you need to remove it from the rail but if you are cutting out the rust and welding in new plate then it would be best to leave the bracket on the car, much less chance of screwing things up.

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21 hours ago, camaro-guy said:

 

Ok, so if I understand what you are saying: I should look at disassembling the bracket, replace the center section, and reassemble it on the frame? 

I was just offering another way to look at the problem.  You'd have to grind some welds and then reweld.  It's not a high precision area, squishy rubber bushings fit in the pockets and there is not adjustability.  Polyurethane bushings are probably stiff enough that you don't really need a pocket for them to ride in.

Their purpose is to locate the wheel, fore and aft, and prevent it from moving under braking.  Compression when stopping from forward motion, tension when stopping from backward motion.  Opposite on the ZX's.

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If I were trying to envision how to repair what you have, and I had never seen a proper T/C mount before live in 3 dimensions (not true with all of us), I think it would be really hard to figure this out. It might really help you to go see one on a junk yard car or donor / parts car on craig's list. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 12:06 PM, camaro-guy said:

I do not mind welding in a new section. What size is the hole in the center? Is it just large enough for the end of the tension rod to pass through it?

 

Camaro-guy

 

I have a friend who is a professional welder, so I have left him a message to see if he would be willing to help. I like the dies you made, and they should not be that difficult to replicate. Is it possible for you to give me the dimensions of your dies, the inner diameter of the cups, or anything of that nature? Are the cups the diameter of the bushing when compressed or straight out of the box? What is the thickness of the metal the cups are made out of? How deep are the cups? Otherwise I may just have to make some educated guesses and see how it goes. I'm in the middle of the boondocks and there are no Dstsun experts near me that I know of. 

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So I think you are talking to me, please excuse the lousy cutting surface, I wasn't going for looks just trying to get it made as fast as possible. Outside of male and female 77mm OD, male half 51mm by 8mm tall, female half 54mm ID, 9mm deep. The round blank is 20 ga and should have an OD of 95mm.  Make sure you grease both sides, I just put the center threaded rod to keep the blank centered.   You use a press or a 4lb mallet to hammer it into shape.  The cup is just there to keep the bottom of the rubber bushing from squishing out.

The hole in the T/C mount has to be about 3mm wider than the metal sleeve that ZH is talking about here, the T/C rod has to toggle in the mount when the suspension goes to extremes up or down.

On 7/9/2019 at 4:16 PM, Zed Head said:

There is a bushing that goes around the rod, and the nut compresses the two washers against it and the step in the rod.  The rubber bushings sit n between.  The hole in the cups needs to be the size of the bushing.

Hope this helps,

 

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7 hours ago, camaro-guy said:

I have a friend who is a professional welder, so I have left him a message to see if he would be willing to help. I like the dies you made, and they should not be that difficult to replicate. Is it possible for you to give me the dimensions of your dies, the inner diameter of the cups, or anything of that nature? Are the cups the diameter of the bushing when compressed or straight out of the box? What is the thickness of the metal the cups are made out of? How deep are the cups? Otherwise I may just have to make some educated guesses and see how it goes. I'm in the middle of the boondocks and there are no Dstsun experts near me that I know of. 

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@camaro-guy

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