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SteveJ

Patton Machine Fuel Injection

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Having done what I hope is enough research, I have started down the road on my next off-beat modification. I decided to pull the trigger to go with the Patton Machine fuel injection kit on my 260Z. I still think I'm going a little lean at times at the top end with my current SU setup, and I hope this will remedy that situation. 

The cost appears to be less than sourcing a non-egr FI intake, AFM, MS setup, etc., and it seems to be nicely sorted out.

I'll try to remember to take a lot of photos for posting. I hope to get the setup in March.

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One of the important things to integrate into the fuel injection ECU is the coolant temperature sensor. Since the 260Z doesn't have one, I need to figure out how to incorporate this sensor. 

  1. Use a 280Z coolant temperature sensor in the port occupied by the temperature switch. (The consensus is that it won't fit.)
  2. Use a 3/8 BSPT male to 3/8 NPT female adapter to put the sensor in the port occupied by the temperature switch. (I got the adapter. It doesn't look like it will fit.)
  3. Use a 1/2 BSPT male to 3/8 NPT female adapter to put the sensor in the port that is currently plugged. (This still seems viable.)
  4. Take advantage of the CHTS port in the Maxima N47 head and use the Nissan CHTS in lieu of the coolant temperature sensor.

In order to do number 4, I have to know whether the sensors have similar resistance curves.

The 82 FSM EFEC section provided me the CHTS curve. Based upon a measurement I took today, I think the middle curve is the one I need to focus on.

CHTS resistance curve.jpg

And a little searching on the interwebs gave me a data sheet on the GM coolant temperature sensor.

GM Coolant Temperature Sensor.jpg

Unless I am misinterpreting the FSM curve and the table, I believe I can use the CHTS for the temperature sensor data for the ECU.

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10 hours ago, SteveJ said:

The 82 FSM EFEC section provided me the CHTS curve. Based upon a measurement I took today, I think the middle curve is the one I need to focus on.

The middle line is the "typical" (perfect) measurement. and the outside lines are range "limits".

So if you are designing a system, you should probably aim for typical (halfway between max and min), but since any sensor you might purchase could be anywhere between those two points, you have to either characterize the sensor and trim the system for that sensor, or your system needs to be able to work acceptably with any sensor within that range.

Those sensors are RTD's and they are available with different curves. And looking at the data for that GM sensor, it looks like it's a different curve. Doesn't the EFI system you are putting in place already expect a specific certain sensor curve? Is there any info in the documentation about what it's expecting?

And lastly, here's a chart I put together for the 280 coolant temp sensor. I didn't look into it, but I would assume the ZX is the same?
sensorchart.jpg

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I took a closer look at the approximate values on the FSM chart and compared them to the GM data. The CHTS appears to run a little lower through the operating range (0 deg C to 80 deg C) than the GM sensor. However, a better evaluation would be to run the engine with the CHTS and monitor the resistance while taking temperature readings at the thermostat housing. If the CHTS resistance is too low through that range, I know it could be the source of problems with the fuel injection. The nice thing is that I can test on the car before I get the kit.

The challenge with the GM coolant temperature sensor is to make sure it is immersed while using the adapter.

Whatever the result, I get to learn something...and maybe the lessons learned will benefit our community.

Resistance vs Temp.jpg

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My original temp sensor was looking quite ragged around the edges, so when I adapted that 260 thermostat housing to my 280, I also took the opportunity to replace the temp sensor with a new one. I bought a new sensor off rock auto and to confirm that it had the same characteristics, I compared it to my original on the stove in a pot of water.  I just wanted to be sure.

They were slightly different, but well within the accuracy limits laid out in the FSM. Here's my "test rig":
P1130317.JPG

And here's a summary of the results:
results.jpg

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I put it off until the first week of July. I'm off the whole week, so I figured I could focus on it. 

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Somewhere I think I read that it was Time to refocus on your Zs.

That was about three years ago?  LOL

          :ph34r:

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11 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Somewhere I think I read that it was Time to refocus on your Zs.

That was about three years ago?  LOL

          :ph34r:

I think it was longer ago than that. Life gets in the way if you let it.

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3 hours ago, SteveJ said:

I think it was longer ago than that. Life gets in the way if you let it.

I know this. It took 25 years.

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Glad you are able to focus now. Life gets in the way whether you really "let it" or not.

I'm just back on the radar a couple days ago after a sports injury.

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33 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

I'm just back on the radar a couple days ago after a sports injury.

I hurt my back a week or so ago trying on sneakers at Academy Sports.  It's a lot of bending tying those laces. B)

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Anyone know if those 3 screw adapters from Patton Machine can be made to fit/work in 4 screw bodies?  I know the mounting screws are an issue, but what else? I like the idea the original carb look with injectors hidden in them.

Edited by jwtaylor
added more

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They really won't look like original carburetors. The plates go in place of the domes. It would be reversible in theory. I'm not sure what happens with the fuel bowls, yet. If you want to use the Z car fuel rail, you would want to get another fuel rail because you would have to open up the orifice in the downstream side of the fuel rail to allow the proper fuel pressure.

Anyway, if you are wondering if he has plates for the 4 screw carburetors, you could always email him to ask.

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On 6/15/2019 at 5:21 PM, jwtaylor said:

Anyone know if those 3 screw adapters from Patton Machine can be made to fit/work in 4 screw bodies?  I know the mounting screws are an issue, but what else? I like the idea the original carb look with injectors hidden in them.

@jwtaylor I emailed Rick. This was his reply:

Quote

Appreciate the link to the Zcar thread. Some very technically savoy folks on there! I will check in from time to time. And yes I do offer Hitachi 4 screw TBI adapters.

Recently have added TBI adapters that use more current readily available MPI style injectors for some of the more popular applications. This new adapter has yet to be announced as availability is very limited at the moment. Perhaps at the end of summer there will be time to flush out the offerings. I don't expect to get a chance to do the Hitachi SU carbs until even later, say winter time based on sales demand. Using these injectors allows for more management options such as using Megasquirt or FAST, etc to build your own system and allow for self tuning etc. Also Affordable Fuel Injection, my supplier of the electronic side of the kit, has come out with a new OBDII controller that has more options and limited customer tuning. So that's all in the pipe and hopefully will be announced publicly later his summer. I have been so busy as a one man operation that there has been no time to work on it.

 

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So today was more frustration than success. That's how these projects can go sometimes. I determined that I do NOT like how the fuel pump supplied with the kit would be situated in the stock mounting location. I put a 280Z fuel pump on order to remedy that. I also found that I have no natural talent for installing AN fittings on braided lines. 

At least I have the injectors mounted in the throttle bodies, and the throttle bodies are in the car.

GEDC0739.JPGGEDC0759.JPG

Read the details here: https://fiddlingwithzcars.wordpress.com/fuel-injection-patton-machine

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4 hours ago, jonathanrussell said:

Did you design and fab the heat shield, or did you purchase? 

I designed and fabricated the heat shield. It is aluminum with "Thermo-Tec 13575 Adhesive Backed Aluminized Heat Barrier" (can be found on Amazon). After I installed headers, I found a lot of heat coming up between the carburetors with the stock heat shield. This heat shield dropped the temperature between the carburetors by about 100 degrees F.

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Okay, the page has been updated with Day 3 activities. I figured out how to do AN fittings today. It's hard to believe that I'm the same person as the idiot who couldn't do it yesterday. I also hit a minor stumbling block in that the fuel pressure gauge has a 1/4" NPT fitting. I couldn't find an AN connector with a fuel pressure gauge port larger than 1/8" NPT (and I already have one of those), so I ended up ordering another fuel pressure gauge that has the same range as the one supplied by Rick but with the 1/8" NPT fitting.
GEDC0769.JPG

Edited by SteveJ
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I didn't post about Day 4 since I didn't take any new photos. Today was Day 5 - The TPS Report.

Mounting the TPS bracket was a challenge. First, there are two vacuum ports on the N36 intake that the bracket does not account for. Next, it didn't matter because there is a lip on the intake where the carburetor mounts that prevents the TPS mounting bracket from aligning with the throttle linkage. Oh well, I expected to have to make some modifications. It was a shame to have to cut into that nice bracket. However, everything lines up now.

20190705_171614.jpg

20190705_171619.jpg

20190707_161643.jpg

 

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