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Terrapin Z

'70 near Portland # HLS3003543

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14 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

So how do you go from 249,000 down to 49,000? 

Well if he has documents that prove it is a 249k car and lists it at 49 then yeah that's sleasy,  but on a 50 yr old car all you really have is the odo, that's why you always see on auction sites " odometer reads xxxxxxx"

 

19 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

He should explain that.  Provenance and history are a big deal on these old cars, aren't they?

Absolutely.

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It's just a conversation.  The guy is not here although he might be a viewer.

I can imagine the new owner coming on to the site excited about the 58,000 mile 240Z he just bought then seeing all of the evidence that it might be at least 100,000 miles more, maybe 200,000.  That would be a bummer.

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I really appreciate this thread. I'm new to the forum, but I've wanted to own a Z since I drove a friend's '75 280z in high school (a huge step-up from my 1977 Honda CVCC :-)). My dream car is a '70 240z with racing green exterior and butterscotch interior. I've been watching this one on eBay and on another dealer/broker site. I've been texting the broker about the car. Vague about the mileage "not sure, thinks the engine was rebuilt". 

I'm old (and so hopefully at least somewhat wise) and I'm not stupid, but I'm definitely a newbie when it comes to buying a classic car. So thanks for your skepticism!

I'm going to be reaching out to the owner directly tomorrow and try to get the truth. If y'all are interested, I'd be happy to post it here. If it isn't too good to be true, and I do end up the happy buyer of this particular vehicle, anyone know how difficult it would be to remove the aftermarket stereo and speakers and return it to stock?

Jay in Northern Virginia, USA

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197TZ, welcome to the forum,  I wish you luck on this car, looks like a nice straight car to me.  Even if the engine does need a rebuild that's not the end of the world, all the parts are available,  I would appreciate it if you could post up what you hear from the owner, interested to hear what he has to say.

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9 hours ago, 197TZ said:

I'm going to be reaching out to the owner directly tomorrow and try to get the truth. If y'all are interested, I'd be happy to post it here. If ~ I do end up the happy buyer of this particular vehicle, anyone know how difficult it would be to remove the aftermarket stereo and speakers and return it to stock?

Jay in Northern Virginia, USA

Yes welcome 197TZ (Jay),

Please do relay any info you feel comfortable sharing about this car. Seems to have an interesting history. While it looks like a good candidate for a restorer or a very nice driver. 

About the stereo ~ at least the front speakers are not cut into the doors. Just some new kick panels to fix that. Might have to do some electrical wire repair in the center console, but that shouldn't be too bad. 

I don't remember seeing any pics of the inside of the rear hatch so I can't speak to any stereo mods there. 

Good luck with your search.

 

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Nice car!  Don't be fooled by a claim of low mileage, however it's still a nice looking car.  And, of course, I love the color scheme.

It could use some cleaning and doo-dadding.  I can see many items that have been replaced over its life.  It appears to be a nice solid car.  Always best to look at it before you buy it.  Changing the radio back to stock is no more of a problem than it was to install the radio in it now.

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I've struggled to find anything really, visibly wrong with the car.  Nothing yet. 

The dash intrigues me.  It looks great, but It has a couple of mods that would have been hard to accomplish without removing the dash: 1) there's a non-stock, #2 toggle switch installed (should be just one, with an unused detent for a fog lights switch that wasn't installed on USA or Canadian Z's); 2) the 90 psi oil pressure gauge is said (by others) to have not entered production until after January 1971.  And yet...  the car has the early-version speedometer (starts at '20' and has 10mph increments).  If the car really does have 249,000 miles on it (and the two handwritten service notes suggest that it does), then I am hard-pressed to explain the great condition of the seats, seat covers, and the door cards -- not to mention the dash and the steering wheel.  The only part of the interior that says, '249,000 miles' is the torn-up vinyl trim on the rear shock towers.  Odd.  The service records would tell the tale, but -- intriguingly -- none of the invoices that the seller has chosen to show in photos includes a statement of mileage.  We do learn that the car received new front and rear bumpers (bought from a Nissan dealer in Puyallap, WA) in October 1997 for the not-inconsiderable sum of $1,400 (call that $2,000 in 2018 dollars).  Why?  Were the originals rusted out?  Or damaged?  Or just not pretty enough to go with a new paint job?

Puzzling.  Maybe the seller will reveal the odometer reading from one of the most recent dealer service invoices.

A 149,000-mile Z is not uncommon and not necessarily a beater.  A 249,000-mile Z is uncommon and would invite a lot of questions about how this car has managed to stay in such great shape sand with so many original parts.

Anybody have any idea what that coolant bypass hose tapped into the thermostat housing might be for?

And has anyone ever seen a theft-deterrent switch mounted to the starter motor like this car has?

 

Edited by Namerow

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17 minutes ago, Namerow said:

Puzzling.  Maybe the seller will reveal the odometer reading from one of the most recent dealer service invoices.

Probably some interesting stuff in there.  The car is in Gresham, which is not that far from Portland.

The guy bought a 240Z and a Trans Am and is now selling both.  Might just be somebody trying to find the sports car he really wants.  I see a V8 Z in his future.

image.png

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2 hours ago, Namerow said:

I've struggled to find anything really, visibly wrong with the car.  Nothing yet. 

The dash intrigues me.  It looks great, but It has a couple of mods that would have been hard to accomplish without removing the dash: 1) there's a non-stock, #2 toggle switch installed (should be just one, with an unused detent for a fog lights switch that wasn't installed on USA or Canadian Z's); 2) the 90 psi oil pressure gauge is said (by others) to have not entered production until after January 1971.  And yet...  the car has the early-version speedometer (starts at '20' and has 10mph increments).  If the car really does have 249,000 miles on it (and the two handwritten service notes suggest that it does), then I am hard-pressed to explain the great condition of the seats, seat covers, and the door cards -- not to mention the dash and the steering wheel.  The only part of the interior that says, '249,000 miles' is the torn-up vinyl trim on the rear shock towers.  Odd.  The service records would tell the tale, but -- intriguingly -- none of the invoices that the seller has chosen to show in photos includes a statement of mileage.  We do learn that the car received new front and rear bumpers (bought from a Nissan dealer in Puyallap, WA) in October 1997 for the not-inconsiderable sum of $1,400 (call that $2,000 in 2018 dollars).  Why?  Were the originals rusted out?  Or damaged?  Or just not pretty enough to go with a new paint job?

Puzzling.  Maybe the seller will reveal the odometer reading from one of the most recent dealer service invoices.

A 149,000-mile Z is not uncommon and not necessarily a beater.  A 249,000-mile Z is uncommon and would invite a lot of questions about how this car has managed to stay in such great shape sand with so many original parts.

Anybody have any idea what that coolant bypass hose tapped into the thermostat housing might be for?

And has anyone ever seen a theft-deterrent switch mounted to the starter motor like this car has?

 

I agree with your observations, curious abnormalities abound. 

My thoughts drifted to a high milage car that has been "cleaned up" with newer parts i.e. Seats, dash, doorcards  visors, etc. With that huge pile of service records there might be some evidence of these changes I mentioned, along the lines on the new bumpers

The DP9 Motorsports pictures are from a dealer in NY that says the car is for sale in Oregon. Strange findings again. 

From their site : (they misspelled the use of the word "through") (scattered use of Capital letters) As is, it is not our fault.

We are Not a Dealer, we Assist in the Coordination of the Sale Threw Our Network of Dealers or Private People. We dp9motorsports are not responsible for any damages on vehicle. Due diligence and third party inspectors are always recommended all cars are as is. Buyer is fully responsible to get the inspection.

Like 26th and Namerow says, still looks like a nice car. I suppose it depends on what a buyer ultimately wants to do with it, and what price that decision is worth. 

 

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What is that hose thing with the orange shut-off valve?

It could use some critical early pieces but it has a lot of correct stuff.  The seats look newly recovered and the door cards look new.  Could use a rear deck carpet.  Clean the overspray off the gas tank.

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On 1/7/2019 at 5:08 PM, 26th-Z said:

What is that hose thing with the orange shut-off valve?

My guess is a home made coolant shut off for the carb warmer.

 

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One day left.  The sketchy ad stuff is still there.  Doesn't look he's going to get his price though, unless there's a late flurry.

image.png

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He had the price down to $25,500 OBO on the Cl ad, he might get that, as people do bid late.

It is a no reserve auction, so it sells for the highest bid. 

The $19,200 is a new bidder.

Edited by Terrapin Z
Grammer

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So I tried to get more information, both from the seller directly, and through the NY car broker. I shared some of your observations and the information from the other websites, and the broker claims to be shocked. He reached out to the seller and only found out (or was willing to share) that the extra rear end and lower-mileage engine that were offered with the car in a previous ad were not included this time and that he wouldn't go down "much" on the price (listed at $28,800).

I told the broker that I still might be interested in the car and asked for the lower price if any, and told him and the seller that I wanted to schedule a local inspection (and that I would fly out to Oregon to do so). I'm now getting no response from either of them.

I have a bad feeling about it, so I'm going to pass.

Thanks again for everyone's keen eyes and extensive knowledge.

Now I just need to see if I want to try for this car instead (opposite end of the spectrum -- one of the last first gen 280s.): 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-Z-Series/162892033673?hash=item25ed1f2e89:g:0zYAAOSws29b5QUW:rk:44:pf:0&vxp=mtr

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Pretty hard to get a feedback rating this low.  I've never seen one that bad.  And they have 496 transactions.  Beware.

 

image.png

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I mentioned 3543 in the other 1970 ad.  The eBay guy blamed the consignment guy - 

 

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3 hours ago, 197TZ said:

Now I just need to see if I want to try for this car instead (opposite end of the spectrum -- one of the last first gen 280s.): 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-Z-Series/162892033673?hash=item25ed1f2e89:g:0zYAAOSws29b5QUW:rk:44:pf:0&vxp=mtr

I would avoid these gateway guys.  Full of BS.  My 76 has factory air.  Mag wheels are not the single rarest option.  "Black Pearl" just means it has black paint.  That's it, black paint.  I think that somebody else coined the "Black Pearl" name too, it might not be a Nissan thing.  It's a gimmick, wherever it came from.  No info about the car either just a tedious list of pictures.

image.png

image.png

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More BS plus bad spelling.  The 5 speed was standard in 1978.

"backed by the rare 5 speed manual transmission makes for the perfect pare. "

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Uhhh.... About the A/C. That car left the factory without A/C. It's got the non-A/C climate control head unit.

And there's a suspicious looking knob near the driver's right knee? I suspect that's the control for the (clearly aftermarket installed) A/C system:
56www.jpg

And something else that caught my eye... The tach says 1K, but the temp, oil pressure, and fuel are off scale to the left like the engine isn't running? Either the engine is stone cold, running on vapors from an empty tank and the mains are shot and can't generate any oil pressure, or... The tach is stuck:
56sss.jpg

It may be a nice car, but I think the description is a little over the top. LOL 

And all those pics and not one of the underside. I wouldn't ever ever ever buy a Z without seeing the underside first. Ever.

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Sorry, just a couple more and I'm done...  The wheels are from a ZX, not some rare factory mag wheel option.

And either the guy taking the pics got real real lucky and it IS actually 12:00, or the clock doesn't work.  Haha!!

OK, I'm done.    :ph34r:

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There's a video.  You have to click the link in the eBay ad.  Almost as tedious as the pictures but something actually happens at 3:40. 

It's actually not a bad car.  $32,995 seems crazy though.  Especially with a dash carpet.

 

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9 hours ago, Zed Head said:

I would avoid these gateway guys.  Full of BS. 

Agreed these shops are just glorified car flippers, with a thesaurus of adjectives to describe the cars they flip.

I am sure they will offer to help you with financing, and perhaps offer to sell you an extended warrantee. 

Personally I'd steer clear. JMHO

 

  • Haha 1

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