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hls3073z

diy paint project advice for 918 color on 73-240

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I've decided to do a diy paint job on my 73 240 that I've had since 76.  It has been repainted once like 20 years ago.

For the moment I'm  focussed on the engine bay.  The motor is out and there's some rust spots that need attention.  Then repaint the engine bay to 918 color, put the engine back in and then work on the exterior.

After a few phone calls I got the best response from PPG.  They had 918  in their system.  Sherwin williams wouldn't talk to me and said they didn't go that far back.  I'd like to start off small by stopping the rust right away.

Pointers to diy docs would be appreciated.

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16 hours ago, hls3073z said:

After a few phone calls I got the best response from PPG.  They had 918  in their system.  Sherwin williams wouldn't talk to me and said they didn't go that far back. 

Ouch...  The 304 Gold Metallic on my 260Z is from Sherwin.  We have a supplier a few blocks from the shop and they've never had a problem with the old Datsun codes.  All the paint we've gotten has been very true to original colors.  We've shot probably a dozen Z's with Sherwin base or single stage paint (we don't use Sherwin's clearcoat though - PPG DCU-2021 is our preference).  So, you have a very lazy Sherwin Dealer - their codes are country-wide.

We found the PPG lower end paints to be kinda sub-par.  Their Deltron paints are phenomenal, but you'll pay a premium...

The engine bay is the worst to clean and sand.  Make sure you get everything super clean.  Make sure the existing paint is well adhered if you're going to leave it on.  I like to get to the original paint.  Chips and cracks down to the metal leave small spots where rust can develop and spread under the paint.  Paint doesn't stick to rust (oxide) and you don't want underlying paint to come loose under your fresh paint.  Do your rust repairs and use POR-15 if necessary.  (POR-15 is a weird product, read all the information on their website before you use it and follow all their directions carefully.  I goes VERY far - a little covers a LOT - so, start off with a quart.  Brush it on - it "self-levels" very well.  You're going to throw away everything you use to apply it, so disposable applicators are best (we've tried using foam "brushes" but find inexpensive natural bristle brushes to be best)

There's a lot of stuff in the engine bay and I suggest you take out everything you possibly can.  It's difficult to shoot around the wiring, hard lines, brake parts, master cylnders, hood pull, speedo cable, choke cables, windshield washer lines, wiper motor wiring - you get the picture...  We pull everything except the hard lines that go back to the rear of the car.  Those, we loosen up as much as possible to get them away from the frame rail and wrap them with tin foil.

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Thanks for your feedback.

I have got almost everything out of the engine bay.  I removed the brake boost, clutch master and loosened the fuel and brake  lines  Main thing left is the wiring harness but it is all disconnected at its end points  so I could wrap it up.  The battery tray and under the brake area are nasty  and there's some spots under the brake area too.  I was thinking I'd sand blast those rusty areas.  I've used phosphoric acid with good results before so I'm thinking about that.  I wonder if POR15 is based on phosphoric acid?  Would you use POR15 without sanding off the nasty areas. seems like a lot to expect.

My main question right now is after I get to bare metal  should I spray some kind of primer, rustoleum?  Before putting down the real stuff, or does the good stuff Sherwin, PPG or whoever have their own primer that they want used?  That's the key question for now.

You are a pro and your customers expect perfection, I'm wanting to DIY so I am willing to compromise but I don't want to totally screw things up.  At the moment when I see raw metal I just want to seal it off with something before I get going with the good stuff.

The outside was repainted 20+  yrs ago but the engine bay is the original 918.

 

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Before you blast or sand anything, wash the engine bay - twice. Then I would use a wax and grease remover. Then sand or blast. I would convert any minimal rust with a phosphoric acid product. I would never use a rattle can primer under a catalyzed paint. Catalyzed primer only. For me I run epoxy over bare metal then I run high build primer. Look @Home Built by Jeff thread. Lot's of good paint instruction and how to's

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The battery leak got my fuel lines in it's previous life so I cut them before the pitted crap. I think it's 1/4" low pressure fuel line I replaced the rotten steel with. Of course you won't win any ribbons but it works great for mine that I drive.

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Thanks to both of you.  Actually I was thinking about rerouting my fuel lines since I have stubbed off my mechanical fuel pump.  That's another topic I need to bring up elsewhere.

It looks like the magic word is "catalyzed Paint" and it not being compatible with other stuff.  Not  knowing what was used 20 years ago on the body  would that mean I should totally strip it to bare metal, not pain over it?   I could do the hood first to see what happens.  How long does it take for bad things to happen if you paint over something that is not compatible?  Is it immediate or a long term bleeding thru?

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The original paint is a catalyzed single stage. If it's solid and well adhered you can paint over it. I would primer first so I could make it smooth and prevent bleed through

You can have immediate or long term problems. Some problems show up quick, like solvent pops or fish eyes. Some like untreated rust can show up months or years later...

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7 hours ago, hls3073z said:

  Would you use POR15 without sanding off the nasty areas. seems like a lot to expect.

My main question right now is after I get to bare metal  should I spray some kind of primer, rustoleum?  Before putting down the real stuff, or does the good stuff Sherwin, PPG or whoever have their own primer that they want used?  That's the key question for now.

 

Again, go to the POR-15 website and read about the product.  It's... different.  And it is made to encapsulate rust and stop further oxidation when it's used as directed.  Read up and decide if it's a product you need or want to use.

We always convert oxidation if it's not just surface rust that can be sanded, wire wheeled, or ground away to clean metal.  Then we may POR-15 the area if necessary.

You don't want to expose bare metal anywhere you don't have to.  Follow the advice above.  If you expose a large area of bare metal, you'll probably need direct-to-metal primer over that area.  Small exposed areas can be covered with the good 2K primer that you'll use over everything (even the direct-to-metal primer) - after you've sanded, filled (if necessary), blocked (if necessary), and CLEANED... 

Your paint supplier can answer your questions about these materials.  You'll prime over everything you do before you paint.  You may want to seal the primer (ya, they sell "sealer" - and some primers can also act as sealer when they're mixed slightly differently).  You may think that the "final" paint that you apply is opaque (solidly covering whats underneath), but it's not...  The color of your primer or sealer will have some effect on the paint you put over it.  That's why most new car replacement panels come sealed in straight black - it's a way to help after market paint look as close as possible to factory.

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I'll do some reading but sounds like POR-15 will be useful.  For now I just want to get the  engine bay  reasonable.  Then I can really make a big effort on the exterior.   My wife is on my case about getting the car moving so I need to focus on getting the motor back in there, even if the paint in the bay is not perfect.  However, I do want to do everything possible to keep away any rust reaperance.  

The Sherwin Williams guy did not want to talk to me.  Only shops.  The guys selling PPG were very helpful but I didn't know all the questions to ask, but I'm getting there.

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Have you talked to Gemstone Auto Paint Supply. They had good reviews online. I did not see the PPG store listed

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I think I called them but never got them to answer.  So I guess very busy.   Probably a good place, I'll have to try again.

The place that did answer and was responsive was Tasco and it seems like their thing is PPG.

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1 hour ago, hls3073z said:

I think I called them but never got them to answer.  So I guess very busy.   Probably a good place, I'll have to try again.

The place that did answer and was responsive was Tasco and it seems like their thing is PPG.

I never do these things over the phone!!! I also way go into my local finishmaster. I know all the guys names. I make small talk with them and ask how they're doing. They don't see me very often but they know who I am and they are always friendly and try to help. If you can cultivate friendships at a good supplier they will try to help you be successful because they like you, because there really isn't any money in it for them. We DIY'ers are a drop in the bucket compared to pro shops. It's all about building the relationship...

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I am awash in paint jargon.  When I go to the POR15 site I see something called "high build primer". formerly "tie build primer"   Is it just marketing lingo or is there some implication that the primer is indeed "high" and can be sanded a bit to smooth out imperfections?  or maybe you get "high" when you use it?

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As a general rule you have DTM "Direct to metal primer" not meant to go over other paint or fillers as substrates

Epoxy primers are use many times as a DTM type product. Epoxy is tough and sticks great to most anything. It does not sand very well

High build primers are primers that have thicker film build. Which helps deal with minor imperfections and sanding scratches

There are also primers that are basically liquid bondo, you see these used on show cars sometimes to allow perfect blocking and really exact edges. Evercoat makes one

Sealers are last and are used to seal down the substrate to prevent bleed through mainly. I don't run a sealer coat to date

There are tons of products available and most paint lines have multiple ways to get from metal to shiny paint. that is where I rely on the counter guys to steer me to the right products. I don't normally scrimp on material cost because better materials are easier to work with on the whole. Better paper sand better and clogs less. Powder guide coat works really good and the can I have will last me for years. I buy mid range primers, decent base coat and mid range clear coat. I shot single stage in the engine bay and door jambs...

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