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motorman7

We're bringin' back the Flat Tops!

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    Beautiful.

    One question though... Are you sure you got the T/C rod bar washers in the correct direction?  Could be an optical illusion caused by all the shiny bling, but they look backwards to me. It looks like you have them convex side out:
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    50 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

    Much better on the washers. Back side washers too, right? 

    Hey... Someone has to ask.      ROFL

     

    Yes, backside washer too...of course.  Interesting though, I went through all of my manuals and really could not find a clear picture or verbage of how the washers are supposed to go and unfortunately, my '70 is not available for verification.  The only information I could find was to ensure that the rounded part of the rubber was toward the frame.  Will have to double check on the source.....may have been a Chilton's.   It does seem odd to me that the convex side is toward the rubber.  I would think that water would/could accumulate at the interface.  Seems like convex side out would reduce water intrusion.

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    The washer orientation seemed odd to me too at first, but I accepted it when I likened it to shock absorbers and sway bar bushing washers. They use the bushings and washers as a kind of spherical bearing because you want the shaft to be able to move in all directions. Putting the convex domed side inward helps facilitate that and makes it operate spherically.

    Oh, and I believe the rounded side of the rubber bushings should be outboard too... Sounds like you may have yours backwards. That one also seems counter-intuitive, and the pics in the manuals are not good enough to be definitive, but I've been into a couple cars now where I was pretty sure the bushings were original and they were installed with the smaller section towards the body and the thicker rounded section towards the washers.

    When I get a chance, I will dig up some pics of crusty cracked (but original) T/C rod bushings.

    The pic I posted above is (what I believe to be) the proper orientation of everything. If you're running rubber on both sides, just mirror the rear rubber bushing to the front.

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    Yes, will double check the source on the rubber when I get home.  I actually had the rubber as shown in your picture above but switched it after reading the manual.

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    Yeah, let me know what you come up with for a source. I do think there has been discussion about the bushing orientation in the past and I think I was involved, but it's tough when you can't even find your own stuff.  LOL

    In the meantime, I dug up some more pics. This is what I believe is the correct orientation for the rubber bushings:
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    And I based that off these old bushings pulled off a 260Z and pictures from other peoples cars. I'm relatively confident that they were original factory and they were installed like this:
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    Another shot where you can see the indent from the convex side of the washers on the rubber side:
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    Sample size of one, but that's all I got.

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    @Captain Obvious here is the source for the rounded side of the insulator to the body.  It's the Chilton's manual, bold type on page 8-8.  Not sure if it's the best source, but it's all I could find.

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    Edited by motorman7

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    So, didn't the North American 260z with flat tops not come with a heat shield, apart from the small ones under the carb?

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    10 hours ago, motorman7 said:

    @Captain Obvious here is the source for the rounded side of the insulator to the body. 

    That's interesting. First time I've seen anyone actually recommend a direction in print. Although.... They also say the tension rods are designed with a right an a left which is incorrect. So the accuracy of the source is in question. And... If you look at the pic, it sure LOOKS like they have the thicker rubber section next to the washer, not the body:

    20190529_204813_resized.jpg

    So now that the waters are really muddy? LOL

    I did a little searching on the forum and here's what I came up with.

    This guy had bushings with the thinner section towards the body like my 260:
    https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/44860-my-two-swiss-s30z-fairlady-restoration-build-thread/?page=18&tab=comments#comment-541674

    This guy had one bushing each direction (which is clearly a mistake):
    https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/47472-uhm-i-think-thats-supposed-to-be-attached/

     

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    54 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

    That's interesting. First time I've seen anyone actually recommend a direction in print. Although.... They also say the tension rods are designed with a right an a left which is incorrect. So the accuracy of the source is in question. And... If you look at the pic, it sure LOOKS like they have the thicker rubber section next to the washer, not the body:

    So now that the waters are really muddy? LOL

    More muddy waters...Another item that comes into play are the mounting features/cups on the body that the bushings insert into.  The feature is rounded inside.  It would seem odd to put the squared end of the bushing into the rounded cup.  The bushings from the energy suspension kit look like the red one in the pic above; rounded on one end, square on the other.  Because of this feature, I am going with the rounded side toward the cups.

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    It's a dilemma.

    1976 Fsm

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    Carpartsmanual #20

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    Nissanpartsdeal  54776

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    18 minutes ago, Mark Maras said:

     I can't figure out the bushing orientation in the pic.

    I had to save the pic and blow it up.  Looks like they have the rounded edge facing 'forward' and the squarish side facing 'aft' for BOTH bushings.  That's weird, but then again it's a 280ZX.

    Edited by motorman7
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     That was my first impression but I found that difficult to believe. Does anyone have an idea of how the bushings are oriented on other makes of cars?

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    I just replaced my compression/tension rod bushings recently on my '71 240Z.  The car sat idle in a garage since '89 so they hadn't been replaced since before that time.  They were oriented with the flat surface of the bushings mounted against the frame mount and the rounded side facing outwards toward the big washers.  The washers were oriented with the concave side on the outside (ie. away from the bushings), much like @Captain Obvious post from yesterday.  I just took pictures and replaced them the same way.

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    240Znomad, Thanks for the contribution and another data point.

    10 hours ago, motorman7 said:

    More muddy waters...Another item that comes into play are the mounting features/cups on the body that the bushings insert into.  The feature is rounded inside.  It would seem odd to put the squared end of the bushing into the rounded cup. 

    Absolutely agree. And that rounded cup on the frame member is exactly why I had my bushings in rounded side towards the cup at first. Then I kept seeing pics of other people's bushings and they were always the other way, so I switched mine. (Despite the fact that it makes engineering sense to me to put them in the other way.)

    So I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm just saying that's how I always see them.    LOL

    In reality it probably doesn't matter much. As long as it doesn't cause a caster change or cause the T/C rod to bind during normal movement, then the orientation probably doesn't matter much at all.

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    And here are two quick upholstery pics from the camera phone.  Should have more to show this weekend.

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    More upholstery pics.  Got the seats complete and mostly installed.   That white sure is bright .....I end up washing my hands every five minutes to make everything stays nice and clean.  I really love the colors and think this area will look pretty nice once I refinish the steering wheel.

    Need to check with @jayhawk about the seat risers.  With the new seat foam, you sit pretty high.  I sat in the passenger seat that still had the black plastic risers installed and my head touched the headliner.  For the drivers side,  I took the risers off of the rear attach point of the seat since @jayhawk is fairly tall.   I think his wife is a bit shorter and she may want the risers.  Anyway, once we get that figured out, I will secure the seats in.  (I had the drivers seat stacked on top of the passenger seat for several weeks and it made a  depression in the middle of the passenger seat  foam.  I am guessing that will fill back out over time or after someone starts sitting in it).

    Got the vinyl installed on the rear shock tower areas also.  That is the difficult section to install.  I wanted to finish out the wheel well vinyl, but the factory missed  putting in the hems on the ovelapping edge. Wife says she can sew that up for me.  It's surprising, as I recently installed a blue vinyl kit from the same manufacturer and the hem was done correctly.  This one was overlooked.

    Got the parts that were sent earlier this week wire wheeled and off to the Plating shop.  Also started the evap tank hose install.  Will hopefully finish that out tomorrow and post pics.

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    Edited by motorman7
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