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geezer

'69 Build on Ebay

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    I'll be interested to see how much is goes for. It's a pretty low number and I wish I had some more money lying around. Seems to be in pretty good shape.

    carl

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    I emailed him and asked for pics of the underside and to detail what the rut issues are. He advised would post them up later tonight. It'll be interesting to see for sure and I have some extra $$ right now as I sold my '72 yesterday. That and its only a few hours away make it more attractive to buy.

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    I emailed him and asked for pics of the underside and to detail what the rut issues are. He advised would post them up later tonight. It'll be interesting to see for sure and I have some extra $$ right now as I sold my '72 yesterday. That and its only a few hours away make it more attractive to buy.

    Congrats, on the selling of your '72. I was considering making the drive to see this car, if the weather stays good, but then thought better of it, having too many projects now, that are not getting done fast enough. The temptation is great though. It is not far from me and my car trailer is empty. Sombody, please handcuff me to a pipe or something!:rolleyes:

    Edited by geezer

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    Ron, I understand your thinking - I see a car like that and think, "It needs to be saved, and I can save it!" Problem is that if I try to "save" too many cars, I never get any totally done. So (with a little help from my wife) I have learned to limit myself to one at a time. Frustrating, at times. But rewarding too, as then I have a fighting chance to finish one and drive it!

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    Ron, I understand your thinking - I see a car like that and think, "It needs to be saved, and I can save it!" Problem is that if I try to "save" too many cars, I never get any totally done. So (with a little help from my wife) I have learned to limit myself to one at a time. Frustrating, at times. But rewarding too, as then I have a fighting chance to finish one and drive it!

    That's the reality! And there's nothing like the common sense of a good women to keep us from having too many Zs... Nah, what am I saying.:stupid: HaHa! The real problem is, after making the drive I'd probably find a bunch of early Z guys camped in the sellers backyard!LOL

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    Oh, I'm right there with you guys! I'll be very interested to see what this goes for...and to whom!

    I can't read the door plate. Would that be an 11/69 car?

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    I can't read the door plate. Would that be an 11/69 car?

    I can't read it either, but in the ad he says it is a 11/69 production car, which seems right. One thing I noticed is the engine bay data plate has been removed. If I was interested in the car (which I am not) I would ask about that and find out what the number on the the original engine is and compare that to other early cars to see if it fits in the range. I wonder why the original engine was pulled and replaced with the one currently in the car? The seller also mentions rust spots in the floors, but doesn't show any pics of it. Otherwise, the car looks pretty good from the pictures shown.

    -Mike

    post-9102-14150809785315_thumb.jpg

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    I may take a ride up to Michigan to take a look tomorrow. I am waiting to hear back from the owner. jlp

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    Oh, I'm right there with you guys! I'll be very interested to see what this goes for...and to whom!

    I'm only guessing here but I would say his reserve is somewhere around 10 grand based on the fact that he quoted the NADA website about a 100 point vehicle and they put the middle value at 11 grand.

    Just my thoughts. I wish I had the garage space right now.

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    I can't read the door plate. Would that be an 11/69 car?

    I can't read the door plate either, but that doesn't look like the stamp tooling I'm used to seeing. Was a different type of stamp tool used for these earlier cars? If not, this along with the missing data plate and the engine story would make me more than a little curious. It would be nice to see pics of the VIN stamping in the engine compartment as well.

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    FYI, I have asked the owner a few questions. He is one of those guys where you ask questions and he answers questions you didn't ask and only half of the ones you asked. One question I asked him is one I always ask- is the title clear and most important have you had the title re-titled properly in your name. He has not had the title re-titled in his name...ie: it is still in the previous owner's name...though presumably signed. This situation has bitten me before because if the previous owner did something wrong in signing the title, it can be very difficult getting it fixed and properly transferred. I asked if he would email a copy of the title to demonstrate that the title had been properly signed by the po but he declined.

    As interesting as this car is to me, he is unfortunately not someone I am personally interested in dealing with.

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    I asked about the engine plate a couple of days ago. Here's the email chain. Read from bottom up:

    Dear bccal,

    thank you ..I will look again but if it's not there then what..I talked to the previous owner tonight..he said he owned it 20 years and it's the same motor..he said he did get it painted..there is the plate in the door and on the dash..now I'll have to ask him why it's not there..I'm pissed now..

    - bluertorch

    Dear bluertorch,

    There are three plates on a Z. The vin number is on a plate

    riveted to the dash. The mfg date/VIN plate is riveted to the door

    jamb and another mfg plate is supposed to be screwed to the

    passenger shock tower. This is the one with the engine number

    and VIN on it and is used to match the car to the motor. It is

    missing in your pictures. It is the only way to match the motor to

    the car. I don't know how much this effects the value of a low

    VIN Z, but in my opinion it would have some effect.

    - bccal

    Dear bccal,

    the plate manufacturing is located in the door jamb,it says thats where it's suppose to be in the book I have..(I got the car with it there & didnt move it.(says 11-1969 manufactured)also it gets blurry when I try to take a picture of it.the motor is rebuildable ,the pistons were siezed in place from sitting...sports car specialty told me to save the engine because it belonged with the car..Theres no cracks in dash and no pad on it,the guy I got it from told me to never leave the car out in the sun with out covering the dash because they are known to crack ,also because of age.hope this answeres your questions..ty for you interest...

    - bluertorch

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    .....the plate manufacturing is located in the door jamb,it says thats where it's suppose to be in the book I have..(I got the car with it there & didnt move it.(says 11-1969 manufactured)also it gets blurry when I try to take a picture of it.
    I'd have to call BS on that one. If he can take a clear picture (more or less) of the VIN on the dash, why not the plate?

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    FYI, I have asked the owner a few questions. He is one of those guys where you ask questions and he answers questions you didn't ask and only half of the ones you asked. One question I asked him is one I always ask- is the title clear and most important have you had the title re-titled properly in your name. He has not had the title re-titled in his name...ie: it is still in the previous owner's name...though presumably signed. This situation has bitten me before because if the previous owner did something wrong in signing the title, it can be very difficult getting it fixed and properly transferred. I asked if he would email a copy of the title to demonstrate that the title had been properly signed by the po but he declined.

    As interesting as this car is to me, he is unfortunately not someone I am personally interested in dealing with.

    I wanted to take a ride up to Michigan to see the car today. It would be an all day trip, not one you would take without confidence in the honestly of the seller. I have to agree with Jonathan, I don’t believe I would take a long drive to deal with this individual. I asked the engine ID plate question and got the same answer as Jonathan but I also asked the simple question of where I can see the car in person. That would seem to be a simple question but the answers were as follows.

    “the car is here in GR..if you need to see it thats fine..give me your phone number..also I added more imput in my description....I talked to the previous owner ..he had it 20 years and says it original ..I dont see that plat and I think it should be there too...it is a low nubered car..I'm wondering if I have to get a hold of nissian..the plate ..I'll ask him tomarrow..in the door and on the dash match..I want that plate or athentifcation from nissan..maybe he has the plate..I'll ask him tomarrow”

    That is a direct copy and paste! I guess that GR is Grand Rapids.

    I am probably making another missed the “Treasure Find” mistake:cry: but I don’t think I’m up for dealing with this seller.

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    So, has anyone asked the seller what the engine number is that he claims is original? Comparing that to other early cars won't confirm that it is the original one for the car, but it could show that it is too high to be the original one.

    -Mike

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    Gentlemen, I too have danced with this seller. As we would have said back in the day "he's a real piece of work". You can call and start the conversation, then he proceeds to dart to his own personal choice of topic and he keeps moving like a chrome-plated ball in an old style pinball machine. This wiZard takes great satisfaction in moving from tumbler to tumbler scoring points in his head until he's literally interrupted by the callers blunt intervention. There will be no straight story garnered over the phone or in email. I have to say that an in-person visit by a well informed Z-guy would be the only means I can predict that would allow the most basic of facts to be identified & confirmed. (maybe there's a smart Z-guy laying in the auction weeds that's already gone to that trouble). That old axiom "let the buyer beware" holds true to the max with this scenario.

    I too have an interest in the '69 vintage cars, and launched into conversation with the seller about as soon as the car hit eBay - wow, all I can say is that he helped me complete a 75 mile drive without the need for a radio for its duration (thank you GMC for that fine hands-free-while-driving sound system). No-one here has gotten the most basic of facts solidified, so how can the vital yet subtle 69-unique parts be confirmed to be present? Let's be careful out there kids, there are solid citiZens in the Z-world, then there are fast-buck Freddie's cruising around the edges! If you're a Z-guy you've got a wealth of friends to back you up, use them, call them, whatever you decide in this case let's keep the Z-community strong, prosperous & honest. I personally appreciate all your comments and opinions. Best Regards to one and all!

    PS. Regarding price, his comment to me was "I just saw a '72 sell at auction for $12k, this garage find of mine has got to be worth even more as the 231st ever made...I got it for doing handyman work for the p.o. (worth $4500 or probably even more), I bought a couple missing trinkets for it, my guy can patch the floor rust for 600-800 bucks, I HAND-rubbed out the paint (the value of that alone is huge he says), my wife and I are in trouble, I'll use the proceeds to buy a honeymoon cottage in the U.P., I'll never sell my Harley no-siree ever, I bought and polished some must-have wheels, my motor guy would have bought the car in a flash (paid him $2k for that 95,000 miles used engine he put in it kinda just like the miles the siezed one had on it), I cleaned the gas tank myself so I know there's no nothing inside, by the time I add up all my personal labor (did I mention I painted the guy's house and worked on his kitchen and ...) I couldn't take less than $11k, might bring twice that at auction ... all without taking a breath :rolleyes:

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    Sounds like ''intervention'' in more ways than one ! :)

    He believes his own script , and we are out to steal it from him.

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    I could understand if the seller just had difficulty taking clear close up pictures but it seems to be more than that. Even after specific views were requested he seems to have responded the same as he did to the questions asked. Very vague, sideskirting what we wanted to see. Not having the plate verifying the correct engine is the real deal breaker for most of us and even if the seller is just an unknowledgable honest seller, the reserve is more than likely set higher than I would be willing to pay for a car with a mediocre refresh done years ago with not enough attention paid to maintaining the originality. It is impossible to make any definitive assessment from the pics we have seen but the pic showing where the battery tray is mounted looks pretty crusty and a poor view at that. I hope someone does go see it just to confirm or deny that the bottom is about to fall out of this car or not. If it is considered fairly solid, it would be a nice project and it is a '69 build, numbers matching or not.

    Myself, I am holding out for HLS30-00009 to turn up. I will call her Clementine and you can call me Huckleberry.:D

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    The build date seems wrong to me. I'm restoring car number 311 and my build date is 10/69. I'm sure my door tag is original as I've owned the car for 37 years.

    Larry

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    The build date seems wrong to me. I'm restoring car number 311 and my build date is 10/69. I'm sure my door tag is original as I've owned the car for 37 years.

    Larry

    Hi Larry,

    If you take a look at the registry data on zhome.com (click on zcar registers on the right hand side, then "The Classic 240 Z Owners Register") you will note that most HLS30 model 240Zs with VINs in the 200s and 300s have build dates in 11/69. However, the dates are not sequential for all VINs. For example, #20 and #26 have 11/69 dates, while #267 and #491 show 10/69 build dates. #48 even has a 2/70 build date. I own #32 (with a 10/69 build date) and #210, #237, and #331 (all with 11/69 build dates).

    -Mike

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    The build date seems wrong to me. I'm restoring car number 311 and my build date is 10/69. I'm sure my door tag is original as I've owned the car for 37 years.

    Larry

    The door tag can also be called a conformance tag. This tag was not fitted to the car until it passed the final federal inspection which was done to ensure all mandated requirements of the importing country had been met. It was a common occurance for the cars to be shuffled according to what we refer to as VINs by the time they were shipped. They were held up in various stages of production for any number of reasons. The date of build specified on the door frame tag is the best indication of when the builds were completed and that doesn't narrow it down to more than the month. That's the simple explanation for that. A VIN can be more closely associated with the beginning order of the build. There were many instances of cars being delayed in the system, especially early on.

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