Camber?

[akwikz]

The C10 Skyline uses the same plates as the 510. The S30 Z car uses something different and does not swap over. From what I can tell, the C110 uses the same plates as the 280ZX. I'm looking for some for my C110 as well.

Brian

[Mat Big Hat]

there's now a cusco distributor in the los angeles area, so i've went ahead and bought the cusco "Piro Ball Uppermounts" made for the c110 #226-41-A

i'll be assembling the struts in the near future and will post pics

[akwikz]

Hey Mat, when is your car due to arrive?

[Mat Big Hat]

those pics i sent you were taken in front of my house

[aarc240]

khughes, if I was going to be able to cover that subject even reasonably, I would be doimg like several others - writing a book!!

Start off with amazon.com for texts on suspension and steering including at least one that covers the basic theory (like Colin Chapman's excellent work) to get a handle on it.

Sit down and write out an honest assessment of what you expect out of the car (handling, ride, acceptable maintenance level etc). Even better, do that three or four times - you will end up with something close to what you need rather than want.

Match up what does and doesn't agree between the car and your 'dream' sheet. A good suspension shop or, even better, a firm specialsing in building rally/race cars can then guide you from there.

Don't expect to get it right the first time or perfect in the end, it's all a compromise.

[aarc240]

That's never ever been a problem on my car, and I've never ever heard any of the racers that I know complain that a camber plate moved.

Racing on tarmac closed circuits doesn't deliver anything like the shock loads dirt forest tracks and poor condition sealed roads do. Ever destroyed both the tyre and a Minilite alloy wheel on impact?

That doesn't mean the plates won't work, just add decent outside diameter thick hardened steel washers under the adjustment bolts (or nuts) to increase the clamping surface area.

If the plates are supplied with 'Unbrako' brand or similar super hard socket head bolts throw them in the bin and substitute Grade 8 or better rolled thread bolts (Unbrako tyoe fasteners are banned in areas of impact by most racing sanctioning bodies for very good reason).

I have however heard of cam style adjusters moving, particularly the G Machine style for the 240Z rear suspension. Many racers use set screws to prevent them from twisting, as the clamps that hold the bushings apparently aren't enough. If you think about it, the control arm puts a hell of a lot of force directly on that eccentric when you're cornering at 1g for instance. How much of that lateral force is put into the camber plate, which is insulated by the spring and shock, and not directly in line?

That style of cam adjuster is only vaguely related to the configuration I use (and used in the Valiant including '60 to '66 US models).

Experience tells me that I'll bend a strut before shifting the adjustment setup I use and just as importantly, it is acceptable to ALL registration authorities in Australia as well as the peak sanctioning body (CAMS)

[jmortensen]

Racing on tarmac closed circuits doesn't deliver anything like the shock loads dirt forest tracks and poor condition sealed roads do. Ever destroyed both the tyre and a Minilite alloy wheel on impact?

That doesn't mean the plates won't work, just add decent outside diameter thick hardened steel washers under the adjustment bolts (or nuts) to increase the clamping surface area.

If the plates are supplied with 'Unbrako' brand or similar super hard socket head bolts throw them in the bin and substitute Grade 8 or better rolled thread bolts (Unbrako tyoe fasteners are banned in areas of impact by most racing sanctioning bodies for very good reason).

I'm not a rally racer, so I have no experience with breaking rims on landings. Despite my lack of direct experience, I think that you wouldn't want to do the cutting that would be necessary to install camber plates on a car that you intend to jump. You'd have to remove about 60% of the strut top to install the plate, and that is a sacrifice in strength I wouldn't be willing to make. Certainly the strut tower of a rally car is going to be much more stressed vertically than a road going car. I imagine it might also be preferrable to have some sort of insulator between the strut and the tower for a rally car.

Regardless, I still think that you'd be hard pressed to have the camber plate slip under any circumstance (including jumping). To beat the monoball out of the camber plate, especially one where the vertical loads are transferred to the monoball itself, or to crack the camber plate, or even to tweak the weakened structure of the strut top might be possible. These things I can see happening.

That style of cam adjuster is only vaguely related to the configuration I use (and used in the Valiant including '60 to '66 US models).

Experience tells me that I'll bend a strut before shifting the adjustment setup I use and just as importantly, it is acceptable to ALL registration authorities in Australia as well as the peak sanctioning body (CAMS)

Perhaps you think the Australian government knows best with regards to auto regulations. I sure don't feel that way about my government. BTW I used to do alignments for a living, particularly Porsches, which use cams in many different places for setting angles. That experience made me trust them less. I haven't aligned a 65 Plymouth, but unless there is some sort of fastening system that positively locks the adjuster down once it has been set, then I'd prefer plates on top for my own non-jumping uses. Not only are they less likely to move in my experience, they're also a hell of a lot easier to set.

[aarc240]

Nothing unusual about cutting away a lot of the tower and then reinforcing the remainder with steel sheet. Of course, that's part of what strut bars are about - reinforcing something that was never designed to cope with the loads now placed on it.

Porsche - not my favourite.

The system I use is not real easy to describe but I'll try a word picture.

Referring to the lower front suspension arm

1 the original inner pivot point hole in the crossmember is moved out 3/4" toward the outside of the car (initial or minimum negative camber setting)

2 then slotted toward the outside of the car, in my case to allow 7/16" travel for the pivot bolt

3 a shallow U channel reinforcement plate is fabricated in 3/16" steel with sides 1/4" high so that the walls of the U are the same distance apart as the outside diameter of the 'cam' plates

4 the channel is then slotted ACROSS the channel (ie towards each wall, NOT towards the open ends) to match the slotted crossmember

5 the channels (two per side) are welded to the front and rear faces of the crossmember with the walled sides vertical, ie at right angles to the ground and with the slots positioned to match the crossmember slots

The cam plates are 1.25" outside diameter with the centre bolt hole being offset 0.219" and double-D configuration but the front cam plate has a double-D 0.063" larger than that in the rear plate. Both are 0.187" thick hardened steel.

The inner pivot bolt has a 0.563" nominal double-D shoulder under the head with a depth of 0.157", a nominal body diameter of 0.5", a 0.5" nominal double-D shoulder with a depth of 0.157" and 0.4375"UNF threaded end.

The length of pivot bolt main body is set to place the smaller double-D almost full depth into its matching cam plate when tightened fully against the centre crush tube.

This does require a custom inner bush but that is easy to machine out of polyurethane stock as is the custom sized crush tube.

I haven't got a spare set at the moment but when I make another or have the front end apart I'll get some pics.

btw, I don't think our government knows best but I DO know that it is a lot smarter to work the system than defy it. A method 'like' a production car setup makes for a happy bureaucrat who is then much easier to deal with!

In most of Australia a modified car MUST be inspected and approved before use on the roads and not doing so leaves the owner/driver totally uninsured.

oops, forgot to say that the cam plates rotate INSIDE the channel. There is no lateral movement of the outside edges of the cams, the pivot bolts slide in the slots and the outer edge of the cam moves vertically in the channel. For the adjustment to change, either the bolts have come loose allowing the cams to rotate or enough force has been delivered to the pivot to either shear off one or both walls of BOTH channels or bend the pivot bolts. Either way, the lower arm will look like a pretzel first.

[zguitar71]

but unless there is some sort of fastening system that positively locks the adjuster down once it has been set, then I'd prefer plates on top for my own non-jumping uses. Not only are they less likely to move in my experience, they're also a hell of a lot easier to set.

I have camber bushings on my car right now and they work but not very well. Like jmortensen said they are hard to adjust and do not stay adjusted for long and they are not very acurate either. If I twernt so po I'd get some plates and get rid of the camber bushings.

[73skyline]

the big round ones to me look like they are made for ken mary c110 c10 etc..car...

the triangular ones are usually for US 240sx or japan silvia cars, 1989-1994...i have tein camber plates on my c110 which are triangular and came from a camber kit for 240sx/ silvia cars. they both work the same and should be fine with either.

mikey

[sakijo]

I went with the camber plates that Mat has, adjustable t/c rods and adjustable KYB struts. Makes all the difference in the world. Of course, I'm not a racer, just an asphalt eater.

P.S. Mat - they say and write "piro ball," but actually mean "pillow ball"

[jmortensen]

I saw that "piro" ball. I wonder how many out there have piro balls on their "starions".