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FIA calipers, should i buy?


Jayru

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Hi guys,

I've got someone with a set of FIA 4 piston calipers. They were offered as an upgrade through datsun and work with solid rotors.

Anyone have any experience with these calipers? He tells me that their lighter than the toyota calipers and a direct bolt on as well. But i'd have to keep my solid rotors.

What do you think? Are the toyota's a better upgrade?

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It is according to what you want. If you want that classic Z with original optional up grades the FIA's are the way to go. On the other hand if you are looking for the best performance you can get for your dollar the later upgrades are probably what you want. If you decide not to buy the FIA's let me know, I like the original optional upgrades myself. "2 cents". :ermm: JLP

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I have had 2 sets of these - still have one today. I am running vented rotors with mine. Here is what I did. Split the caliper and you notice that there is an O-ring between the two halfs. One half of the caliper is flat the other has a machined out to hold the O-ring. I then had a machine shop make up spacers to go between the halfs with the same machine out O-ring facings. Then I purchased some longer bolts to hold it all together.

So I now have FIA 4 pots on my 260zed hubs with 300zx non-turbo 4 stud rotors with a spacer for the rotors and the between the calipers. And yes the capiler are a bolt up.

Hope this helps

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I have had 2 sets of these - still have one today. I am running vented rotors with mine. Here is what I did. Split the caliper and you notice that there is an O-ring between the two halfs. One half of the caliper is flat the other has a machined out to hold the O-ring. I then had a machine shop make up spacers to go between the halfs with the same machine out O-ring facings. Then I purchased some longer bolts to hold it all together.

So I now have FIA 4 pots on my 260zed hubs with 300zx non-turbo 4 stud rotors with a spacer for the rotors and the between the calipers. And yes the capiler are a bolt up.

Hope this helps

Just out of curiousity, do you think that the addition of a spacer between the two caliper halfs allows the assembly to flex more under hard braking? Have you noticed any unusual (uneven) brake pad wear patterns with this spacer added?

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no none - the other set I sold to a fellow local Z club member for his race car and he did not have any problems - my set has not gone on the car yet - long term project been off the road for 5 years now - shifted countries (leaving Zed behind) now I am back home and saving to finish the resto.

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I have had 2 sets of these - still have one today. I am running vented rotors with mine. Here is what I did. Split the caliper and you notice that there is an O-ring between the two halfs. One half of the caliper is flat the other has a machined out to hold the O-ring. I then had a machine shop make up spacers to go between the halfs with the same machine out O-ring facings. Then I purchased some longer bolts to hold it all together.

So I now have FIA 4 pots on my 260zed hubs with 300zx non-turbo 4 stud rotors with a spacer for the rotors and the between the calipers. And yes the capiler are a bolt up.

Hope this helps

What size did the spacer need to be?

Also, Where do you get pads. I know your not in the US, but i've been doing some searching and it seems that it's next to impossible to get pads in the states.

What would be a fair price for these calipers?

Thanks

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Believe it or not but I go new pad from the States for my set including a number of seal kits and new pistons - I ordered these about 5 years ago so I don't know if you can still get them - I will do a quick search. I ordered them from Nissan Motorsport catalogue I have (in a box in storage right now so can't get the phone number easily). They were not cheap that is why I keep the new pads for myself and the set I sold I had new pad metrical bonded and riveted to the old backings locally.

I sold the other set which included the following - new 300zx 4 bolt rotors, spares for the rotors, new pads (made as stated above) and a seal kit for $500 NZD which at the time was about $270 USD but now that would be $350 USD - I would say I sold them too cheap given how rare they are and given that they could be used in some classic racing classes (were others would have to stick with the stock 2 pot units)

Courtesy Nissan still show that they can sell the capiler pistons, new capiler and the installation kits so they might be able to get the seal kits and the pads - if you look at the capilers you will see that they come with pads so that is a good sign. See CourtestPart - FIA Capiler/Parts for S30

re the spacer sizing - capilers are in storage right now and I am about to fly overseas on a business trip for 4 weeks so if you can wait that long I will dig them out and take some measurements - will also take measurements of the spaces used for the rotors

re why did the spacer thing - one of the sets FIA I had already had spacer and a vented rotor setup - they were original FIA Nissan Motorsport 240z Vented rotors and capilers - so I was lead to believe (I got these after a good friend and Zed nut who passed away) - also the Nissan Motorsport catalogue I have confirms that there was an option of FIA vented setup for both the front and rear of the 240z/260z/280z, however the rears did not include a e-brake ie race only application.

I did price up the Nissan Motorsport vented rotors (as the one I had needed replacing) but at $350 USD each (over $700 NZD including taxes each, at the time) I did not order them just the capiler pistons, pads etc. I then spent 1/2 day looking over rotor catalogue to find a rotor close to the FIA unit - the closest was the that rquired the least amount of mods were 300zx 4 bolt units - so a spacer was made up to locate these at the same spec as the original units. The capilers I had FIA vented set and FIA non vented set were the same apart from the small factory spacer between the capiler half - so the vented set was pulled apart and the spacer copied by the machine shop.

I hope all this info is of use.

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re why did the spacer thing - one of the sets FIA I had already had spacer and a vented rotor setup - they were original FIA Nissan Motorsport 240z Vented rotors and capilers - so I was lead to believe (I got these after a good friend and Zed nut who passed away) - also the Nissan Motorsport catalogue I have confirms that there was an option of FIA vented setup for both the front and rear of the 240z/260z/280z, however the rears did not include a e-brake ie race only application.

The capilers I had FIA vented set and FIA non vented set were the same apart from the small factory spacer between the capiler half - so the vented set was pulled apart and the spacer copied by the machine shop.

Sorry to jump in with a different view here, but I don't believe the proper vented-rotor version of the Sumitomo MK63-20S four-pot 'FIA' calipers used a spacer. They were a quite different casting to the non-vented version.......

I've had quite a few pairs of these calipers pass though my hands over the years - both vented and non-vented versions. I have a pair on my ZG, and a pair on my 432R replica project car too ( both vented ) and I have never seen a pair of originals that used spacers to allow for the extra width of the vented disc. The vented types always had extra 'meat' on the casting.

To be honest, the non-vented version kind of misses the point. They are OK until you use them in anger a few times, and once they get the disc hot enough its fade city. Vented version is definitely miles better.

Be careful to note that pad shapes are different between vented and non-vented versions.

Unless you are a fan of period-correct options and accessories for these cars, the 'FIA' brake calipers might not be the best long-term solution. Especially when you price up seal kits and replacement pistons.

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Having a rare set of calipers is great, however these are heavy and not your best performance solution. Most vintage groups on the west coast will let you run Toyota calipers because they are roughly equivelant to the FIA calipers.

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Sorry to jump in with a different view here, but I don't believe the proper vented-rotor version of the Sumitomo MK63-20S four-pot 'FIA' calipers used a spacer. They were a quite different casting to the non-vented version.......

I've had quite a few pairs of these calipers pass though my hands over the years - both vented and non-vented versions. I have a pair on my ZG, and a pair on my 432R replica project car too ( both vented ) and I have never seen a pair of originals that used spacers to allow for the extra width of the vented disc. The vented types always had extra 'meat' on the casting.

To be honest, the non-vented version kind of misses the point. They are OK until you use them in anger a few times, and once they get the disc hot enough its fade city. Vented version is definitely miles better.

Be careful to note that pad shapes are different between vented and non-vented versions.

Unless you are a fan of period-correct options and accessories for these cars, the 'FIA' brake calipers might not be the best long-term solution. Especially when you price up seal kits and replacement pistons.

Cool - knew Alan or someone would know the answer re the FIA vented vs non vented question. I will see if I can find the casting number of my capilers - so I can now assume that I have the non vented that someone put spacer between that I then copied on the other set I had at the time.

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Hi Mike ( NZeder ),

Here's a pic of one of my new vented-disc type MK63 calipers, before I fitted it to the 432R replica project car.

I think the split-line of the two halves of the caliper should be visible in the photo, and you can see that there is no spacer there.

Nothing wrong with a spacer as long as it is well engineered and safe, but the original vented-disc type calipers didn't have them.

Cheers,

Alan T.

post-2116-14150795085209_thumb.jpg

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Hey Alan,

Just curious, at the time when the vented Mk63 was available did Nissan produce some bespoke rotors for that application or were those vented ones off of another exisiting car? Obviously the 4x114 300ZX hadn't yet been made and I wonder what they used... Did the KPGC10 & KPGC110 Skylines have vented rotors up front?

-e

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Hey Alan,

Just curious, at the time when the vented Mk63 was available did Nissan produce some bespoke rotors for that application or were those vented ones off of another exisiting car? Obviously the 4x114 300ZX hadn't yet been made and I wonder what they used... Did the KPGC10 & KPGC110 Skylines have vented rotors up front?

-e

I wonder if these vented rotors, ment for the mk63's would fit with the toyota calipers. Do they have the same offset as the stock solid rotors.

Thanks.

Ahmed

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Hi Eric,

The Sports Option lists carried both solid and vented discs to go with the solid and vented disc versions of the MK63 4-pot calipers.

There were 'early' and 'late' types of disc to suit the 'early' and 'late' front hubs ( 'hat' depth being different ).

PGC10, KPGC10 and KPGC110 Skyline GT-Rs had solid front discs and two-pot calipers as stock fitting.

Ahmed,

Yes, they probably would match up with the Toyota calipers. However, its academic now. NISMO don't make them anymore. Prices of NOS pairs are sky high in Japan when they turn up.

Peugeot 505 GTI vented discs are a good alternative, and only need a different disc-to-hub PCD drilling mod to make them fit.

Here's a pic of my NOS discs before I fitted them to the 432R replica project car:

post-2116-14150795085698_thumb.jpg

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Ahh, that's too bad.

would you know what year 505 GTI to use?

Are they a 4 bolt or 5 bolt pattern?

Thanks

Ahmed

I just have to figure out how to get them in Canada.

The most common set up here is to use 300zx rotors with an aluminum spacer.

Thanks

Ahmed

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Alan,

Thanks for the PICs this helps alot - re the rotors I was thinking about the Peugeot rotors all those years ago but went the 300zx with spacer path as I now don't have to get any new rotors machined once I had the spacers made.

Ahmed - I have just looked up the DBA catalogue I have on my PC (PDF format) and the here is the info

post-7025-14150795086068_thumb.jpg

post-7025-1415079508635_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for the information Mike.

I was wondering what Alan meant by

"only need a different disc-to-hub PCD drilling mod to make them fit"

Would I have to enlarge the hub centric hole or would I have to relocate the four mounting holes or maybe both.

Thanks again

Ahmed

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I believe the 4 holes need redrilling - the peugeot rotors are much closer to the original vented rotor for the Mk63 vented capiler. I am going by memory here (as my doc are in storage) so Alan please chime in and correct me. I believe the original rotors were the following spec.

272mm diameter

20mm thick

43.5mm hat for later 260z hubs

81mm centre bore

4 holes at ???

The 300zx is as shown above but I will repeat here

274mm diameter

22mm thick (these are a bit thick for the new pads I got so I had to get .5mm taken off the pads by the brake machinest)

35.5mm hat (so I had a 8mm space made and used longer bolts)

81mm centre bore

4 holes at ??? same as the hub

The peugeot 505 vented rotor

273mm diameter

20mm thick

43mm hat

76mm centre bore (will need taking out to 81mm - but check first)

4 holes at ??? will need redrilling as not the same

So I should have gone the peugeot rotor path as I would not have had to buy extra bolts, spacers etc but I didn't go down this path, I would need to get new rotors machined when ever I replaced them - I don't think that would be that often as my car when it comes back onto the road will not see too much track time so they should last a long time.

Never know I still might do the peugeot thing next time I come to replace the rotors as 300zx 4 bolt rotors are becoming harder to get here in NZ these days.

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I didn't know that DBA made a version of the Peugeot disc Mike, so that's really useful reference for the future. I know a DBA distributor in the UK, which will be handy. Thank you for that.

Ahmed,

The PCD change I mentioned to adapt the Peugeot disc is that of the holes through which the bolts that hold the disc onto the hub pass. This is not 114.3mm PCD ( that's the PCD of the wheel studs - which is not the same thing at all ).

The centre hole of the disc needs a very slight amount of machining to make it fit snugly on the Z hub, but its the re-drilling of the bolt holes that is the major operation. However, this is pretty simple as you just drill the four holes with the correct PCD in the space between the original Peugeot mounting holes.

I don't have the sizes for the centre hole and PCD to hand ( they are in my garage I believe ) but you can get them quite easily by measuring your original Z discs.

All the data that NZeder posted is good. I'll have to dig out that disc-to-hub PCD of the Peugeot disc, although to be honest it is immaterial to us as we know its wrong!

Cheers,

Alan T.

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Thanks for clearing things up guys.

I can easily modify the rotors at work. I just have to find a supplier, that can get these rotors here.

I wonder if there's a demand for modified 505 rotors.

It would be much cheaper then buying 300zx rotors and then having a machinist turn/machine some spacers, not to mention the added hardware.

Ahmed

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